Adam said:Looking for a quality but cheap AGP video card (off eBay) to replace ...
- ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB DDR 256Bit AGP Video Card
This is for an old Asus A7V133 system.
Any recommendations?
Paul said:Since it's Ebay, you could go for a 7600 GT AGP.
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=31&card2=435
That's about $100 for the ones I could find.
Newegg has a new (ATI based) HD 4670 AGP for around the
same money, but the problem with later generation cards
is drivers. (Sometimes there is only one "good" driver,
for late model AGP cards.) You always want to check for
driver complaints, no matter what card you end up shopping for.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161337
The comparison of the HD 4670 is here.
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=31&card2=629
The power drawn by the HD 4670 is around 47 watts. Plus
you'd have to add some watts (maybe 5W or so) for the HSI chip.
There are limits as to how much AGP can draw, even using
a Molex connector. (I had an ATI 9800 Pro die, because the
Molex connector +5V pin burned on it. I fixed it, by soldering
a Molex cable right to the video card, and it worked just
fine that way until the card was eventually retired. The
burning happened, because of a cheap Chinese Molex which
fit loosely when plugged in. My own fault for not
rectifying the fit problem when I had a chance.)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/powercolor-pcshd4670-512mb_5.html#sect0
If I had to guess, I'd put the 7600 GT power, somewhere
around the same power as the 6600 GT, or about 48 watts.
For comparison, some model of 9800 Pro here, is 47 watts.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/ati-powercons_8.html
Paul
Adam said:Thanks (Guru Paul), my ATi Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB has
the molex connector problem (burnt pin) that you mentioned.
The video card works but not perfectly (broken lines are sometimes
displayed),
which is why I wanted to replace the video card. But,
if fixing the molex connector problem will get rid of the broken lines,
then I can avoid spending for another video card.
Is there another way to fix without soldering, which I don't do.
Maybe use a better quality female molex connector?
Paul said:I had no problem with video output. One day, I got the red warning
rectangle on the screen, indicating that the Molex was no longer
connected. I shut down immediately, and that's when I noticed the
Molex (+5V pin) was burned. The other three pins were untouched.
The card operated without a problem, until the power connection
went open circuit.
You can see the repair here. A solderable "metal can" sits
over top of one of the legs of the connector, allowing the wire
to be dropped in plus some solder. It was to avoid having to
wrap the end of the red wire, around the exposed piece of
leg on the solder side of the board. Since the red wire is
now permanently affixed to the video card, whenever I
move the video card, that cable goes with it. (It doesn't
fit into the antistatic bag properly any more.)
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/341/solder98.jpg
It wasn't the fault of the connector on the video card - it
was the connector on the power supply that fit loosely.
And that's why it burned.
You can try repairing the power connection, then retest
and see if any "video defects" go away. Make sure the
fan is still working, as many video cards, the damage
comes when the fan stops turning, and the heatsink gets
so hot the fan body melts. And that's when the GPU
gets "cooked".
If you're not experienced with soldering, find someone
else to do it. Take the video card, and a Molex "Y" cable
to a radio/TV repair store, and see what they'll charge to
"do the surgery". To do it right, you'd remove
the solder from the four holes holding the legs of
the connector in place. And then pop the four wires
right through the holes. My fix was more of an "I don't
care" style repair.
Paul
Adam said:Sure, I doubt that the video card manufacturer would
use a cheap Molex connector on the video card.
I may have unknowingly used cheap Molex extension connectors,
which I'll try replacing first before soldering (which will make it
difficult to swap video cards).
A side question ... which ATI Radeon video card is this ...
http://imageshack.us/a/img69/5258/atiradeon9800pro.jpg
It doesn't look like an ATi Radeon 9800 Pro.
Paul said:It's a 9800 XT, out of a Dell.
http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?rid=m4lrss&itemid=1441161823
The 9800 XT gets an honorable mention here, and uses a different GPU
(R360)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R300
While the chip number is changed, it doesn't look all that
much different than a 9800 Pro listed here. The two seem
almost identical, except for clock speed difference and
more RAM on the newer card.
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=36&card2=34
*******
Note that, the 9800 Pro is universal keyed, and can fit
in a 1.5V or 3.3V slot. The keys in the slot control card
insertion.
http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/r9800pro-3/r9800pro-scan-front.jpg
The 9800 XT on the other hand, is a 1.5V only card. It only
has one slot to fit a key.
http://www.memory4less.com/images/products/img0922/N3511-lg.jpg
It's funny, that while the 9800 Pro has a 3.3V slot cut in it,
when I plugged mine into a 3.3V only AGP motherboard (P2B-S),
the machine would not post. Nothing was damaged. I think
I got a beep code. So if the card is "universal", it
isn't "that universal" :-(
Your slot is AGP Pro, where the front and back section
of pins, carry extra power. The center section matches
the "normal" set of AGP pins. And there are no keys that
I can see in your slot, in that section. And that means
either a 1.5V or a 3.3V card will fit. So the 9800 XT should
not be a problem.
Before you buy the 9800 XT, do some Googling first to see
whether there are problems or not.
Paul
Adam said:Thanks (Guru Paul), what's the best way to clean up the burned Molex
connector?
Adam said:I replaced the burned Molex extension cable with a new one.
However, when the video card was connected to
the new Molex extension cable, I got the following message ...
"You have not connected the power extension cable to
your Radeon 9800 video card
Please refer to the "Getting Started Guide" for
proper hardware installation !!!"
So, I connected the video card "directly" to the power supply,
which successfully circumvented the message. But,
video defects still exist with the new Molex extension cable.
Could the problem be an insufficient power supply?
I have the following ...
AGI HP-250NLXAA 250W 60/50Hz ATX Power Supply
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AGI-HP-250NLXAA-250W-60-50Hz-ATX-Power-Supply-/370606177189
Paul said:You cannot "clean up" a burned connector.
I learned this the hard way, on a $6000 piece of equipment at work.
Initially, I thought you could clean connectors too, but I was wrong.
The machine had an internal defect, and a burned connector. I tried
several times to "clean" the pins of the black burnt stuff. The deal is,
once the metal changes from shiny and smooth, to heat-stressed
slightly whitish finish, the resistance of the pin has gone
up permanently. It's like the nice metal finish on the pin
is gone. You have to replace both the male and female
connector parts, so new shiny pins are present on both sides.
On the machine in the lab, I just soldered the two bits
to each other, because I was sick of opening the thing up
over and over again. Once I soldered the thing, I had
no more trouble with it.
So instead of pulling the Molex off the video card, I soldered
the +5V wire to the backside of the Molex. This was to save me
the trouble of using a solder sucker and pulling the solder
out of all four of the Molex holes. The other three Molex
pins were undamaged. So my repair method was "additive",
and didn't involve removing any solder from the video card.
Sometimes, the PCB gets damaged while you're removing
solder, and I figured I'd avoid that by just soldering the
wire (as shown in the photograph). The reason for the hollow
vertical metal thing, was so there wouldn't be any wire draping
around the pin. By elevating the solder joint, it puts more
mechanical stress on the base, where the metal thing joins
to the card, and I have to be careful not to tug on the cable
too hard. It's to avoid the potential for a short circuit,
if I soldered closer to the card itself.
The pin and wire carry 5V at around 5 amps on the 9800 Pro.
The Molex pin is capable of carrying a bit more than that
(perhaps up to 8 amps). But the pin surfaces must be
"new virgin material" for that to work. If the pins are damaged,
doing a little cleaning on them is not going to make them happy
to carry 5 amps again.
I don't know where your video defects are coming from. There
were some Nvidia chips, were broken solder balls on the GPU
caused video problems. If the fan dies on a video card and
the GPU overheats, that can cause permanent defects. Sometimes
lines on a monitor, are actually a *monitor* problem. It really
depends on how the lines look, as to which part of the
gear you would suspect as defective. On an LCD monitor, defective
matrix drivers on the LCD panel, can cause solid vertical lines
to appear on the display.
Paul
Adam said:Okay, let me see if I can get someone to do a similar soldering solution.
If not, it may be better to swap out this AGP video card.
The video defects are definitely coming from this AGP video card,
which now has a heatsink part attached (since the fan failed).
The video defects disappear when another PCI video card is swapped in.
Paul said:If you already had a fan failure on the video card (the fan
was not spinning for some period of time), the GPU could
already have overheated. Fitting another fan or cooler, if
the abusive situation lasted long enough, isn't going to fix
it. The chip could be damaged.
Paul
Adam said:If fan failures are still common these days,
what's the best preventative measure to take with new video cards?
Keep the case open and aim an external fan at the video card?
I ask because I'm about to put together a new build and
I don't want fan failure to damage another video card.
Paul said:I've done that. But not out of fear the fan would pack up.
Sometimes I fit a fan in that area, just so a "cloud of
hot air" doesn't collect around the video card.
If you want to do your own cooling, you can buy "passive"
cooled cards. They have a large heatpipe based cooler.
You can mount an 80mm fan next to the passive cooler, and
cool the card that way.
You can also buy after-market passive coolers, and replace
a fan based cooler. But that's more work, and has an
element of risk to it (if you're a butterfingers).
http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga.html
This is an example of a fanless AGP, but it's not a strong
card, and not gamer material. When I bought two cards of
this nature, one was stable without using a fan, while the
other card wasn't happy unless the 80mm fan was located
next to it. This card is cheap, low power, and the cooler
doesn't even use a heatpipe. It's a plain extruded aluminum
cooler.
http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-130-452-S01?$S640W$
This is an example of a PCI Express with a passive cooler.
At least this one, doesn't have too much trim to get in the
way of the cooling air from your 80mm fan.
http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-131-475-Z03?$S640W$
When I locate the 80mm fan, it is suspended from the computer
case. I don't "bolt the fan to the video card", because
depending on the weight, it might make the card bend downwards
a bit when the computer tower case is upright. I make a
mechanical solution, using the screw heads on the PCI slots for
support. And the fan bolts to the arm I make out of aluminum
angle iron.
Paul
Since it's Ebay, you could go for a 7600 GT AGP.
Adam said:For Sapphire AMD Radeon HD 6850,
one of the Accelero Twin Turbo models will probably suffice.
Not sure why the Accelero Twin Turbo PRO has better reviews even though
cooling capacity is lower.
http://www.arctic.ac/p/shopware.php/search?sSearch=twin+turbo
Rene said:On Ebay there are also several 7950 GT cards which are nice as well, that
may be an option too.
Good luck!
Greetings,
Rene
Paul said:You can try Newegg for more reviews. (feedback tab)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186046
Paul
What OS are you running?Adam said:Thanks (Rene), will keep that in mind.
Buffalo said:What OS are you running?
Buffalo