Need advice on video input hardware

[alice]

I'm starting to look into video input devices and either not finding
what I expect or just getting confused.
I want to take things of off VHS, and possibly other sources, to edit
and put clips onto a web site. The TV tuner idea is interesting, but
not really what I need right now, and having an way to output back to
VHS would also be great but not required. I need some software to come
with it, but would like the device to be compatible with other
software later on (more professional) if that is possible. The higher
the quality the better, but I'd say the most I could spend is $200.
Any idea what I might be looking at, and maybe where to find it?

 

[kony]

I'm starting to look into video input devices and either not finding
what I expect or just getting confused.
I want to take things of off VHS, and possibly other sources, to edit
and put clips onto a web site. The TV tuner idea is interesting, but
not really what I need right now, and having an way to output back to
VHS would also be great but not required. I need some software to come
with it, but would like the device to be compatible with other
software later on (more professional) if that is possible. The higher
the quality the better, but I'd say the most I could spend is $200.
Any idea what I might be looking at, and maybe where to find it?

Typically something like this,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100120

then after capturing, use whatever software you want, though
the above and other similar products often include a basic
editing program as well, but whether it will be sufficient
for your needs, depends quite a lot on what you'll need to
do later. Basic cropping and noise reduction, conversion
tasks can be handled even by some freeware software like
Virtualdub.

You may be quite disappointed in the quality of VHS when
displayed on a computer (monitor). What looks fine on an
old tv will tend to look worse.

The video capture device needs to have an input compatible
with the output from your VCR. Sometimes this will be
S-Video, sometimes composite (typically a yellow RC jack),
or the worst option is a coax output that is modulated to a
TV channel like 3 or 4. Use the S-Video or at least
composite, not coax to a TV Tuner.

Most video capture cards and even some regular video cards
have input capability. S-Video being most common, you
merely hook up the VCR, open the capture or video card
recording program and play from VCR, record to the preferred
(or supported) file on the computer.

Most any capture card comes with software at least featured
enough to do this, though with some video cards you might
have to seek a 3rd party software. Probably most come with
some software but I must admit I rarely try to use video
cards for capturing and having touched any of the software
(with exception of the ATI All-In-Wonder video cards but
these are not what I was talking about previously, these are
a hybrid capture/tuner plus video card, above as "video
card" I was referring to one with no tuner (and you don't
need one given composite or S-Video input on the video card,
but be sure it's an input, not an output-only to a TV).

Forget about high quality and professional, it's going to
look terrible, using VHS is by far the biggest problem and
nothing else will effectively counter that. There would be
negligable benefit to using anything more than a basic $20
PCI video capture card and capturing to the least lossy
compression format available from it, then after you have
captured to a file, you can use any editing software you
like that supports the format used to save the file (which
means unless it was some obscure format, you can assume any
decent editing program would support it).

There's a lot more to it but you don't need a comprehensive
overview to start, better to get started and then learn the
rest as you go when it comes to choosing formats and amount
of hard drive space you'll need, etc. Google for some video
capture & editing tutorials for more info on that.

 

[DaveW]

You need to buy a Video Capture card.

 

[GT]

I'm starting to look into video input devices and either not finding
what I expect or just getting confused.
I want to take things of off VHS, and possibly other sources, to edit
and put clips onto a web site. The TV tuner idea is interesting, but
not really what I need right now, and having an way to output back to
VHS would also be great but not required. I need some software to come
with it, but would like the device to be compatible with other
software later on (more professional) if that is possible. The higher
the quality the better, but I'd say the most I could spend is $200.
Any idea what I might be looking at, and maybe where to find it?

[snip]

Forget about high quality and professional, it's going to
look terrible, using VHS is by far the biggest problem and
nothing else will effectively counter that. There would be
negligable benefit to using anything more than a basic $20
PCI video capture card and capturing to the least lossy
compression format available from it, then after you have
captured to a file, you can use any editing software you
like that supports the format used to save the file

I would like to add the following to what Kony has already said:

You should be able to capture 'raw' (no CODEC). This will give you as much
quality as possible from the video. Also, choose a frame size matched to VCR
quality (I forget the numbers, but something like 384x288, if I remember
correctly). This will result in very large capture files, but treat these as
your start point. The first edit you do will compress them using a CODEC and
produce files that are a fraction of the size.

You might want to google on CODEC for a little background on video
COmpression / DECompression.

 

[kony]

I'm starting to look into video input devices and either not finding
what I expect or just getting confused.
I want to take things of off VHS, and possibly other sources, to edit
and put clips onto a web site. The TV tuner idea is interesting, but
not really what I need right now, and having an way to output back to
VHS would also be great but not required. I need some software to come
with it, but would like the device to be compatible with other
software later on (more professional) if that is possible. The higher
the quality the better, but I'd say the most I could spend is $200.
Any idea what I might be looking at, and maybe where to find it?

[snip]

Forget about high quality and professional, it's going to
look terrible, using VHS is by far the biggest problem and
nothing else will effectively counter that. There would be
negligable benefit to using anything more than a basic $20
PCI video capture card and capturing to the least lossy
compression format available from it, then after you have
captured to a file, you can use any editing software you
like that supports the format used to save the file

I would like to add the following to what Kony has already said:

You should be able to capture 'raw' (no CODEC). This will give you as much
quality as possible from the video.

Another alternative is a lossless codec like Huffyuv or
whatever, and it will help to reduce HDD space requirements.

Also, choose a frame size matched to VCR
quality (I forget the numbers, but something like 384x288, if I remember
correctly).

No, do NOT do this, it is not a pixelixel direct bit
stream copy, it is an analog signal. As such, using a
higher resolution will be higher quality. I recommend a
bare minimum of 640x480, then if the end result needs to be
a lower resolution you'd be better off downsampling,
especially if there was a need to apply any noise filtering
prior to doing so which could be pretty commonly needed with
analog/VCR.

This will result in very large capture files, but treat these as
your start point. The first edit you do will compress them using a CODEC and
produce files that are a fraction of the size.

Not the first edit, the LAST edit. Always leave the files
in same format if that format can be cut/spliced/etc without
recompression, or leave the file in a non-lossy format until
the very last editing of it - at which point it is then
compressed down in size to the lossy distribution format for
web/etc (lower bandwidth).

 

[GT]

I'm starting to look into video input devices and either not finding

what I expect or just getting confused.
I want to take things of off VHS, and possibly other sources, to edit
and put clips onto a web site. The TV tuner idea is interesting, but
not really what I need right now, and having an way to output back to
VHS would also be great but not required.
[snip]

Forget about high quality and professional, it's going to
look terrible, using VHS is by far the biggest problem and
nothing else will effectively counter that.

I would like to add the following to what Kony has already said:

Also, choose a frame size matched to VCR
quality (I forget the numbers, but something like 384x288, if I remember
correctly).

No, do NOT do this, it is not a pixelixel direct bit
stream copy, it is an analog signal.

This is not a pixelixel capture, but there are only a fixed number of
'lines' in the signal, so increasing the number of pixels in the capture
file will not capture more quality, it will just make it bigger and take up
more space - its like using 8 megapixels over a 0.3 megapixel camera to
capture a 64 square chess board, it will just end up with adjacent pixels
duplicating information and wasting file space. TV has 625 lines and I think
VCR playback has less? So to capture TV, 640x480 would be better, but
capturing from VCR to a large frame size might be a waste. Best bet is to
try a range of sizes and see at which point the quality stops improving. Be
sure to play all captures back at full screen, so the larger frame captures
don't 'look' better.

 

[kony]

I'm starting to look into video input devices and either not finding
what I expect or just getting confused.
I want to take things of off VHS, and possibly other sources, to edit
and put clips onto a web site. The TV tuner idea is interesting, but
not really what I need right now, and having an way to output back to
VHS would also be great but not required.

[snip]

Forget about high quality and professional, it's going to
look terrible, using VHS is by far the biggest problem and
nothing else will effectively counter that.

I would like to add the following to what Kony has already said:

Also, choose a frame size matched to VCR
quality (I forget the numbers, but something like 384x288, if I remember
correctly).

No, do NOT do this, it is not a pixelixel direct bit
stream copy, it is an analog signal.

This is not a pixelixel capture, but there are only a fixed number of
'lines' in the signal, so increasing the number of pixels in the capture
file will not capture more quality, it will just make it bigger and take up
more space - its like using 8 megapixels over a 0.3 megapixel camera to
capture a 64 square chess board, it will just end up with adjacent pixels
duplicating information and wasting file space. TV has 625 lines and I think
VCR playback has less? So to capture TV, 640x480 would be better, but
capturing from VCR to a large frame size might be a waste. Best bet is to
try a range of sizes and see at which point the quality stops improving. Be
sure to play all captures back at full screen, so the larger frame captures
don't 'look' better.

I've heard these arguments before about how original # of
lines might dictate the capture resolution and have tried it
myself several times. The larger frames do look better on
several, actually all capture devices I've tried it on.

VCR may have 240 lines which is semi-effectively 480 lines
interlaced, but so long as the capture card does it's job
with reasonable quality (not degrading more the higher the
resolution it's set to capture), the result of actually
choosing the resolution and comparing the result will yield
a better result going with 640 x 480 instead of lower like
480 x 352 or 240 x 180.

You are thinking in terms of digital before it is actually
digital. It does not matter how many lines because it is
not captured a line at a time. While # of lines determines
resolution on the display device, these lines are additively
making up an analog, not yet digital, frame. It is
captured as a frame where it cannot dissect line-per-line
nor extra per-line pixels in any ratio faithful to the
original # of lines. All it can do is capture the frame at
the highest supported resolution. This frame, being analog,
does not have clean delineations.

The frame could be 20,000 lines or it could be 10 lines, and
either way the most accurate capture would be the highest
resolution the video capture card can support. Granted if
it were originally 10 lines, the difference in quality going
with a far larger capture resolution is quite minimal, the
only improvement in resolution is at the borders between
each line, a more accurate transistion between them. Being
this far beyond the original # of lines would be considered
a waste, but a lesser multiple is not.

The same is true for capturing analog audio. If one were
playing a CD over a stereo, through speakers the output is
then analog. It does not matter what the original digital
datarate was, recording the speaker output with a mic would
result in better quality at higher bitrate, with the
difference becoming insignificant when it reachs a threshold
for inperceptable difference by the human, even if a
computer could still make further discrimination.