Need advice on purchasing an 8 port tub mountable router

  • Thread starter Thread starter NEExt
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NEExt

I currently have a 4 port linksys wireless B router and it's worked well.

I recently bought a new home that has a wired network in every room. So, I
need an 8 port router that will mount in a tub in my distribution center.
Wireless is not necessary because I plan to plug the Linksys wireless router
I already own into a port in my office that will daisy chain off the 8 port.
This way I can get wireless on my laptop anywhere in the house.

I'm looking for advice on 8 port tub mountable routers with a Firewall.
What have people had good luck with?

I also play alot of IP to IP games, and my Linksys never let me open a port
properly to communicate (or maybe i could never figure out how to do it.)
Every time we wanted to play IP to IP with someone we had to remove it and
use an old hub to get it to work. I would prefer something that is
intuitive enough to allow us to IP>>IP with minimal hassle.

Thanks in advance.
 
I currently have a 4 port linksys wireless B router and it's worked well.

I recently bought a new home that has a wired network in every room. So, I
need an 8 port router that will mount in a tub in my distribution center.
Wireless is not necessary because I plan to plug the Linksys wireless router
I already own into a port in my office that will daisy chain off the 8 port.
This way I can get wireless on my laptop anywhere in the house.

I'm looking for advice on 8 port tub mountable routers with a Firewall.
What have people had good luck with?

I also play alot of IP to IP games, and my Linksys never let me open a port
properly to communicate (or maybe i could never figure out how to do it.)
Every time we wanted to play IP to IP with someone we had to remove it and
use an old hub to get it to work. I would prefer something that is
intuitive enough to allow us to IP>>IP with minimal hassle.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Once you get above 4-5 ports, routers with integral switches
climb steeply in price. If it were my home I'd get a
separate router without regard for the number of switched
ports, only focusing on the ease of setup for your
particular games (I can't help there). For the house LAN
itself I'd base it around a Gigabit switch... even if your
present systems aren't Gigabit enabled, future systems will
be and Gb network adapters are pretty cheap these days. For
slight extra cost you then have potential for 4X faster LAN
in the future, and it is backwards compatible to 100Mb of
course.

One good deal on Gb 8-port with jumbo frame support is an
SMC8508T, can now be found for just under $100. For example
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?product_uid=87905

Assuming you'e in the US, you might find Black Friday sales
on basic routers for nearly (if not entirely) free after
rebate. having an idea of which popular modules might suit
your needs ahead of time (Linksys, Belkin, D-Link, Netgear,
etc) might make it easier to seize a nearly free router when
the opportunity arises.
 
One good deal on Gb 8-port with jumbo frame support is an
SMC8508T, can now be found for just under $100. For example
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?product_uid=87905
Click to expand...

Just wondering about jumbo frames...

I'm using a TEG-S50TXE 5 port switch that supports jumbo frames. It seems
that all my PC's support jumbo frames. My Asus P4C800E-Dlx has Intel
gigabit. Wifes is 3Com on a P4C800-Dlx. Server uses a Realtek 8169 chip...

If I turn on jumbo frames on only some of the PC's, with the other lose the
ability to talk to them?

Is there a downside to using jumbo frames?

....any other advice about gigabit is welcome.

Thanks!
 
Noozer said:
Just wondering about jumbo frames...

I'm using a TEG-S50TXE 5 port switch that supports jumbo frames. It seems
that all my PC's support jumbo frames. My Asus P4C800E-Dlx has Intel
gigabit. Wifes is 3Com on a P4C800-Dlx. Server uses a Realtek 8169 chip...

If I turn on jumbo frames on only some of the PC's, with the other lose the
ability to talk to them?

Is there a downside to using jumbo frames?
Click to expand...

Did some testing and now I'm confused...

My onboard Intel NIC shows "4088 bytes", "9014 bytes", "16128 bytes" and
"disabled" as options for Jumbo frames.

My servers Realtek NIC shows "2KB MTU" up to "7KB MTU" and "disabled" for
Jumbo frames. Choosing anything but "disabled" breaks my connection to the
server.

Do the jumbo packets have to be configured for the same size? If so, it
looksl like the only option would be the "4KB MTU" on the server and "4088"
on my PC. Not sure what the other PC's have for options.
 
The PC doesn't really need jumbo frame "support", except the
config in the driver properties and windows TCPIP setting
for MTU... IIRC.


Not that I know of, unless you had a horrifically bad
network that dropped so many packets that it had to resend
VERY many... it would be considered a malfunctioning network
in that case, not a reason to avoid jumbo frames instead of
fixing the LAN wiring/etc.

Did some testing and now I'm confused...

My onboard Intel NIC shows "4088 bytes", "9014 bytes", "16128 bytes" and
"disabled" as options for Jumbo frames.
Click to expand...

The typical, proposed standard for jumbo frames is 9000.
Also enable that in the registry (or other config interface
per OS) for MTU.

My servers Realtek NIC shows "2KB MTU" up to "7KB MTU" and "disabled" for
Jumbo frames. Choosing anything but "disabled" breaks my connection to the
server.
Click to expand...

Are you 100% certain your switch supports jumbo frames? I
saw no mention of it on Trendnet's website nor their PDF,
http://www.trendnet.com/en/products/TEG-S50TXE.htm

Do the jumbo packets have to be configured for the same size? If so, it
looksl like the only option would be the "4KB MTU" on the server and "4088"
on my PC. Not sure what the other PC's have for options.
Click to expand...

I don't think they HAVE to be but they should be the same
size. If (whatever) won't support 9K, set all to the
highest that will work. As with anything else, benchmark it
before and after changes AND note CPU utilization, jumbo
frames generally lower that significantly. There may not be
a lot of difference in performance between 4K and 9K, if 4K
works it's a good alternative.
 
Just wondering about jumbo frames...

I'm using a TEG-S50TXE 5 port switch that supports jumbo frames. It seems
that all my PC's support jumbo frames. My Asus P4C800E-Dlx has Intel
gigabit. Wifes is 3Com on a P4C800-Dlx. Server uses a Realtek 8169 chip...

If I turn on jumbo frames on only some of the PC's, with the other lose the
ability to talk to them?

Is there a downside to using jumbo frames?

...any other advice about gigabit is welcome.
Click to expand...

You might find that rasing the TCP receive window helps too,
but if it's too high it may be a problem connecting to some
websites... for example once I had it high enough that I
couldn't connect to Officemax.com, or maybe it was
OfficeDepot.com. In windows it is a global value, not per
adapter. I have not done extensive benchmarking though, do
not know the optimal value... was satisfied to get "pretty
good" performance and then was distracted by the "next"
WhateverItWas project and never got back to benching it
further. There are a ton of guides you can google that may
suggest better Receive Window (rwin) settings that I can,
but try something like 131072, though I also have Win2K/XP
set to enable window scaling too.
 
I'm using a TEG-S50TXE 5 port switch that supports jumbo frames. It
seems
chip...


Are you 100% certain your switch supports jumbo frames? I
saw no mention of it on Trendnet's website nor their PDF,
http://www.trendnet.com/en/products/TEG-S50TXE.htm
Click to expand...

I was only going by what a quick Google told me... I've emailed the company
to see what I can find out.
I don't think they HAVE to be but they should be the same
size. If (whatever) won't support 9K, set all to the
highest that will work. As with anything else, benchmark it
before and after changes AND note CPU utilization, jumbo
frames generally lower that significantly. There may not be
a lot of difference in performance between 4K and 9K, if 4K
works it's a good alternative.
Click to expand...

Well, since it didn't seem to work I'm assuming that my switch doesn't
support the jumbo frames. I'll wait to see what Trendnet says.

I'm currently seeing about 250kbit/sec with rare spikes up to 400kbit when
moving a single large file, so it's not too bad.
 
Well, since it didn't seem to work I'm assuming that my switch doesn't
support the jumbo frames. I'll wait to see what Trendnet says.

I'm currently seeing about 250kbit/sec with rare spikes up to 400kbit when
moving a single large file, so it's not too bad.
Click to expand...

250Kbit/s?
If that's right, something is horribly wrong... That's not
even on the expected lan-speed range for 10Mbit, more like
data exchange via pigeons and punchcards. If you meant
250Mbit/s that's not too bad, maybe even good for no jumbo
frames.
 
NEExt said:
I currently have a 4 port linksys wireless B router and it's worked well.

I recently bought a new home that has a wired network in every room. So,
I
need an 8 port router that will mount in a tub in my distribution center.
Wireless is not necessary because I plan to plug the Linksys wireless
router
I already own into a port in my office that will daisy chain off the 8
port.
This way I can get wireless on my laptop anywhere in the house.

I'm looking for advice on 8 port tub mountable routers with a Firewall.
What have people had good luck with?

I also play alot of IP to IP games, and my Linksys never let me open a
port
properly to communicate (or maybe i could never figure out how to do it.)
Every time we wanted to play IP to IP with someone we had to remove it and
use an old hub to get it to work. I would prefer something that is
intuitive enough to allow us to IP>>IP with minimal hassle.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Does your ISP allow you to get a block of IP addresses?

If so, then i'd get a router that supports partial NAT for evices that dont
need forwarded ports, then forward the remaining IP addresses onto your
LAN(over a normal switch) for devices that require a whole load of ports.

hamman
 
I'm currently seeing about 250kbit/sec with rare spikes up to 400kbit
when
250Kbit/s?
If that's right, something is horribly wrong... That's not
even on the expected lan-speed range for 10Mbit, more like
data exchange via pigeons and punchcards. If you meant
250Mbit/s that's not too bad, maybe even good for no jumbo
frames.
Click to expand...

Ooops.. yes MBit (usually 25% utilization with peaks over 40%)

....and, drat, no jumbo frames support.

Now I'm going to want to replace the silly thing. I just spend a bunch of
coin on a dual WAN router (wireless G as well).
 
Thanks for your help but I'm a bit confused.

You are talking about buying an 8 port gigabit switch and installing it in
my distribution tub - and then plugging my cable modem into it? (cable modem
is esentially a router if my understanding of network tech is correct). Do
switches contain hardware firewalls - the descriptions I've read make no
mention of them.

What I don't understand is here:
If it were my home I'd get a
separate router without regard for the number of switched
ports, only focusing on the ease of setup for your
particular games (I can't help there).
Click to expand...

So, you are talking about hooking up the modem to the switch in the
distribution center which is then sent to every jack in the house. And then
hooking up routers in individual rooms? I'm confused. We *were* planning
on doing this in the office just so we could use our wireless router. But
that was the only reason.

There seems to be more I want to ask.. but I'm not familiar enough with
network tech to ask intelligent questions - or even formulate a question.
Thanks for you help.
 
Hamman said:
Does your ISP allow you to get a block of IP addresses?

If so, then i'd get a router that supports partial NAT for evices that dont
need forwarded ports, then forward the remaining IP addresses onto your
LAN(over a normal switch) for devices that require a whole load of ports.

hamman
Click to expand...


They do.. if I want to pay an extra 10 bucks a month per.
 
Thanks for your help but I'm a bit confused.

You are talking about buying an 8 port gigabit switch and installing it in
my distribution tub - and then plugging my cable modem into it? (cable modem
is esentially a router if my understanding of network tech is correct). Do
switches contain hardware firewalls - the descriptions I've read make no
mention of them.
Click to expand...

No, plugging the cable modem into a router, then the router
into the Gb switch.

What I don't understand is here:


So, you are talking about hooking up the modem to the switch in the
distribution center which is then sent to every jack in the house. And then
hooking up routers in individual rooms? I'm confused. We *were* planning
on doing this in the office just so we could use our wireless router. But
that was the only reason.
Click to expand...

Since you have wireless I'd get a 2nd wireless router to
expand the coverage area, but the same applies that I wrote
above, it's Modem -> Router -> GB Switch -> PCs & other wifi
router.

So you need buy two parts instead of one:

Gb 8 port switch
Router (any that supports your games)

The pair may not cost much if any more than a router with
only 100Mb 8 port switch built in, especially since there
are often discounts/rebates on routers with 5 or fewer
ports.
 
Right on. I went to compUSA today and studied the diagrams on the back of
the boxes and came to the same conclusion. Will need a router and an 8 port
gigabit switch and should be in good shape.

A couple final questions if you don't mind:

All the routers I saw were 10/100. Do I need to get a gigabit router? comp
to comp communications will just go through the switch right? So
essentially I will be getting 1000mbps speeds comp to comp no matter what
speed my router is. Except the internet wont be passed at gigabit speeds
but then that doesn't matter does it since broadband doesn't even reach
10mbps I don't think.

What brand do you recommend. Was thinking I'd try netgear this time. There
is no reason a change of brands shouldn't work with the linksys wireless
router I already have no?

Thanks much for the help. It is appreciated.
 
Right on. I went to compUSA today and studied the diagrams on the back of
the boxes and came to the same conclusion. Will need a router and an 8 port
gigabit switch and should be in good shape.

A couple final questions if you don't mind:

All the routers I saw were 10/100. Do I need to get a gigabit router? comp
to comp communications will just go through the switch right? So
essentially I will be getting 1000mbps speeds comp to comp no matter what
speed my router is. Except the internet wont be passed at gigabit speeds
but then that doesn't matter does it since broadband doesn't even reach
10mbps I don't think.

What brand do you recommend. Was thinking I'd try netgear this time. There
is no reason a change of brands shouldn't work with the linksys wireless
router I already have no?

Thanks much for the help. It is appreciated.
Click to expand...

You can use your current router. The router will be used strictly as a
firewall for the broadband connection which is only a couple of megabits
at best. The gigabit switch allows all of the computers on your LAN to
talk to each other at speeds up to a gigabit assuming that you have more
than one machine with a gigabit NIC in it. The switch takes care of the
conversion from 10M to 1000M so you can plug in devices with all speed
NICs. Your Linksys router has a 100M switch on it so the connection betwen
the router and the gigabit switch will be at 100M, although the actual
data rate will be limited by your broadband connection to what ever your
broadband connection can do.

The setup is modem to router, router to switch, and all local devices to
the switch.
 
Right on. I went to compUSA today and studied the diagrams on the back of
the boxes and came to the same conclusion. Will need a router and an 8 port
gigabit switch and should be in good shape.

A couple final questions if you don't mind:

All the routers I saw were 10/100. Do I need to get a gigabit router?
Click to expand...

No. There is no benefit anyway, your internet connection
will never be 10Mb unless you have extremely good service,
let alone 100Mb or Gb.
comp
to comp communications will just go through the switch right? So
essentially I will be getting 1000mbps speeds comp to comp no matter what
speed my router is. Except the internet wont be passed at gigabit speeds
but then that doesn't matter does it since broadband doesn't even reach
10mbps I don't think.
Click to expand...

Correct, BUT I don't know how fast a NIC can switch back and
forth, if you used same NIC for internet connect and LAN
then you may not be able to use internet WHILE copying files
at Gb speed. I don't think this will be a problem but I
don't have my network set up that way so I'm not sure.
What brand do you recommend. Was thinking I'd try netgear this time. There
is no reason a change of brands shouldn't work with the linksys wireless
router I already have no?
Click to expand...

Most routers are fine for "routing", but I've had worse luck
with Belkin than other brands. The issue though is what you
mentioned previously, what has best support for your games,
which is something I don't know... If it weren't for the
gaming config ease-issue you already mentioned then I'd
suggest just reusing your current router instead of getting
a 2nd one, only buying the 2nd router if/when you need the
expanded wifi coverage area.
 
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