My mobo cpu fan 'broke' but I found a work around: use a house fan!

[RayLopez99]

My CPU fan on my Pentium IV from 1992 is showing its age. I don't
know if it's the August high temperatures here in Greece (averaging in
the mid to high 90s F), or what, but I was getting, according to a
mobo monitor program, a chip temperature of about 135F. This for a
Prescott 120 nm chip should not be a problem (since the chip is rated
to I think 190F), but it was causing my Windows XP OS to crash towards
the late afternoon, if the CPU was straining (such as working on a
chess problem, or doing a virus scan).

My solution: I took the top off, saw it was the CPU fan that was
'squeaking' (up to now I assumed it was the other fans), and to fix it
would require a thermal grease reseating and a lot of work (I'm not
sure where in the afterparts market I could buy a CPU fan this old,
but I'm sure they have them). So I simply left the top off, and
trained a small portable fan of about 6" diameter, plastic blades, set
to Low, onto the CPU chip. Problem solved. The temperatures in peak
load dropped from 135 to 107F and stayed there. In ambient mode, no
load, the CPU temperature goes to less than body temperature, 95F.
And it's a pretty hot day today. Amazing fix.

Anybody see any problems with this setup, other than aesthetics?
(which I don't mind). When the weather cools again in the fall I'll
put the case back together again.

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

Apparently more than, given that the Pentium 4 wasn't introduced until 8
years later in November of 2000.

Right you are...typo, I meant 2002 not 1992.

Now let me Google Pentium IV fans... see if I can find one...

OK it comes down to this: is a Northwood Pentium IV 2.4 GHz bought in
2003 a Socket 478? [YES--see below] If so, this fan will do the
trick:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...CODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE

Details below. Two fans, probably the more expensive ball bearing fan
is best.

OK, assuming a Socket 478 is present (apparently all Northwood's are
Socket 478's:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_478 ) my next
question: it appears the CPU fan is always attached to the metal heat
sink, so you have to detach the old heat sink from the CPU. I saw a
bunch of videos on YouTube on how to do this, but it seems that if the
heat transfer grease is hard, as is likely the case with mine after 10
years, you really have to break the seal (says an AMD video) with a
rocking motion, careful not to damage the pins or unseat the chip.
Video looked not so easy--the guy was really struggling seemed to me.
Then you have to maybe (says a kid on Youtube) take out the CPU, which
I see how, then clean the CPU with a Q-tip or cloth and possibly
alcohol...with the power off LOL). OK I can do that, but if this CPU
fails I'm in big trouble since all my stuff is on it...for now I might
just stick with this house fan solution.

I have built many a PC from scratch, but since this PC is fully loaded
with work stuff, I'm a bit scared to replace anything so important (a
hard drive is not a big deal to replace, but a CPU--what if I zap it
with electrostatic discharge?).

Anybody actually replace a heat sink? For example some come with
thermal paste already present (and you just peel off a plastic film)
while others you apply with a tube, and according to comments on
YouTube most people put too much grease on their chip, though I don't
see the harm in that as long as your seal is tight. I guess I might
get the local PC guy to do it, but for all I know he might ruin it
just to sell me a new PC (he's been pushing me to buy a new PC--here
is his chance! LOL).

Anybody do this--is it hard?--for an old heat sink like I describe?

RL

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=578161&CatId=795
$10 fan + heat sink

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...CODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE
$22 fan + heat sink --looks like a better deal, ball bearings and
copper.

Detailed Features
Specifications

Socket: 478
Compatible CPUs: Intel P4 and Intel Celeron up to 3.4GHz
Material: Copper
Dimension:
- Heatsink: 83x69.9x37mm ( L x W x H)
- Fan 70x70x15mm
Bearing: Ball Bearing
Rated Speed: 3700 RPM +/-10%
Rated Power: 3.00W
Air Flow: 28.0 CFM @ 3700 RPM
Noise Level: 29.7dBA
Life Hours: Ball: 50000
Curent: 0.25A
Connector: 3 Pin Motherboard
Thermal Resistance: 0.28C/W

 

[Mike Easter]

RayLopez99 wrote:
<research>

In this case you are doing online researching instead of looking at what
you have.

'Someone'/(something entity) assembled the cpu + heatsink + fan and made
decisions about whether they were going to buy the cpu with the cpu
mfr's/ Intel's heatsink+fan or if they were going to buy all 3
separately or buy cpu + 3rd party heatsink fan integrated, which latter
is the most likely, assuming some OEM source of this machine.

That condition of the heatsink+fan as an integrated unit is going to be
the important factor, whether you can easily remove and replace the fan
from the heatsink or not -- which I predict that you (probably) can.

Is it for sure that the fan needs to be replaced rather than just
'maintained'? Some fans can be cleaned and a drop of oil placed.

If the fan needs to be replaced, can it be removed from the heatsink
with reasonable effort, or are they made as a inseparable unit?

 

[Jan Alter]

Apparently more than, given that the Pentium 4 wasn't introduced until 8
years later in November of 2000.

Right you are...typo, I meant 2002 not 1992.

Now let me Google Pentium IV fans... see if I can find one...

OK it comes down to this: is a Northwood Pentium IV 2.4 GHz bought in
2003 a Socket 478? [YES--see below] If so, this fan will do the
trick:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...CODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE

Details below. Two fans, probably the more expensive ball bearing fan
is best.

OK, assuming a Socket 478 is present (apparently all Northwood's are
Socket 478's:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_478 ) my next
question: it appears the CPU fan is always attached to the metal heat
sink, so you have to detach the old heat sink from the CPU. I saw a
bunch of videos on YouTube on how to do this, but it seems that if the
heat transfer grease is hard, as is likely the case with mine after 10
years, you really have to break the seal (says an AMD video) with a
rocking motion, careful not to damage the pins or unseat the chip.
Video looked not so easy--the guy was really struggling seemed to me.
Then you have to maybe (says a kid on Youtube) take out the CPU, which
I see how, then clean the CPU with a Q-tip or cloth and possibly
alcohol...with the power off LOL). OK I can do that, but if this CPU
fails I'm in big trouble since all my stuff is on it...for now I might
just stick with this house fan solution.

I have built many a PC from scratch, but since this PC is fully loaded
with work stuff, I'm a bit scared to replace anything so important (a
hard drive is not a big deal to replace, but a CPU--what if I zap it
with electrostatic discharge?).

Anybody actually replace a heat sink? For example some come with
thermal paste already present (and you just peel off a plastic film)
while others you apply with a tube, and according to comments on
YouTube most people put too much grease on their chip, though I don't
see the harm in that as long as your seal is tight. I guess I might
get the local PC guy to do it, but for all I know he might ruin it
just to sell me a new PC (he's been pushing me to buy a new PC--here
is his chance! LOL).

Anybody do this--is it hard?--for an old heat sink like I describe?

RL

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=578161&CatId=795
$10 fan + heat sink

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...CODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE
$22 fan + heat sink --looks like a better deal, ball bearings and
copper.

Detailed Features
Specifications

Socket: 478
Compatible CPUs: Intel P4 and Intel Celeron up to 3.4GHz
Material: Copper
Dimension:
- Heatsink: 83x69.9x37mm ( L x W x H)
- Fan 70x70x15mm
Bearing: Ball Bearing
Rated Speed: 3700 RPM +/-10%
Rated Power: 3.00W
Air Flow: 28.0 CFM @ 3700 RPM
Noise Level: 29.7dBA
Life Hours: Ball: 50000
Curent: 0.25A
Connector: 3 Pin Motherboard
Thermal Resistance: 0.28C/W


If you do decide to replace the HSF and are concerned about the thermal
compound being hard it would be best to run the computer for half an hour to
loosen the paste up so the heatsink can more easily be disengaged from the
cpu. As described go for the back and forth slow twisting motion to break
the connection.

 

[RayLopez99]

RayLopez99 wrote:

<research>

In this case you are doing online researching instead of looking at what
you have.

I see what I have--but it's not clear whether the plastic fan can be
disengaged from the metal heat sink. There's a lever, but I don't
want to mess with it--with my luck pulling the lever will crack it.

'Someone'/(something entity) assembled the cpu + heatsink + fan and made
decisions about whether they were going to buy the cpu with the cpu
mfr's/ Intel's heatsink+fan or if they were going to buy all 3
separately or buy cpu + 3rd party heatsink fan integrated, which latter
is the most likely, assuming some OEM source of this machine.

OK so you assume integrated, and so do I, and besides I cannot find
just the fan sans the heat sink. I guess I could ask the local
computer guy on that...

That condition of the heatsink+fan as an integrated unit is going to be
the important factor, whether you can easily remove and replace the fan
from the heatsink or not -- which I predict that you (probably) can.
Right.


Is it for sure that the fan needs to be replaced rather than just
'maintained'? Some fans can be cleaned and a drop of oil placed.

Not sure. Sure the fan makes noise, but will the drop of oil make it
spin faster? Or will it, as I suspect, gum up the bearings and make
it spin slower?

If the fan needs to be replaced, can it be removed from the heatsink
with reasonable effort, or are they made as a inseparable unit?

Right. That's the question. Either way I can do it, but since I
don't have a backup PC, if this one goes down, I'm screwed. So for
now, I will keep the fan on it, and come fall if with cool
temperatures the CPU still burns hot, I'll know I have to bite the
bullet and replace the fan + heat sink (probably the thermal grease
may have cracked, etc).

RL

 

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter

I see what I have--but it's not clear whether the plastic fan can be
disengaged from the metal heat sink. There's a lever, but I don't
want to mess with it--with my luck pulling the lever will crack it.

The (Any) lever isn't for removing the fan. There is a ZIF lever for
removing the CPU. There is generally some kind of 'lever' attachment for
holding the heatsink against the cpu. But the fan is going to be
attached to the heatsink either with 4 screws, or it is going to be
'made onto' the heatsink and not be removable with less trouble than
replacing the heatsink-fan assembly.

OK so you assume integrated, and so do I, and besides I cannot find
just the fan sans the heat sink. I guess I could ask the local
computer guy on that...

There are lots and lots of little heatsink /fans/ around - but I think
the heatsink is the most important part of the operation, that is why
you are able to cool your cpu so well with your external fan; because
you are cooling the heatsink's fins.

The only thing important about a fan is whether it makes (too much)
noise doing its job or not. Or if it isn't working.

Not sure. Sure the fan makes noise, but will the drop of oil make it
spin faster? Or will it, as I suspect, gum up the bearings and make
it spin slower?

If the bearing is dead, whether it be ball or sleeve, the lubricant is
useless. Sometimes they/fans make noise because they are unbalanced with
debris and if they are clean and (therefore) balanced, everything is OK.
Sometimes they seem to get 'unseated' because of imbalance and need to
get back into their groove.

You should be able to see if the blades are dusty and you should be able
to blow off some dust and you should be able to 'fiddle with' the
spinning fan gently and get some information on how bad it is or isn't.

Right. That's the question. Either way I can do it, but since I
don't have a backup PC, if this one goes down, I'm screwed.

Any data on any PC has to be prepared for the death of the PC in any
part, such as the death of the hdd. You /must/ have a backup strategy
so that you can recover if this computer's hdd dies tomorrow. In some
ways the death of the motherboard is less serious than the death of the
hdd, because you can move a hdd and recover data.

(probably the thermal grease
may have cracked, etc).

Noise from the fan isn't caused by any condition of the thermal compound.

Thermal 'grease' or thermal 'stickystuff' isn't so likely to have
cracked as it is likely to cause difficulty separating the heatsink from
the cpu.

The problem with having to replace the heatsink+fan is getting that
assembly separated from the cpu and getting the cpu cleaned up for
replacing the thermal plus heatsinkfan.

 

[Mike Easter]

the CPU fan that was
'squeaking'

What does 'squeaking' mean exactly?

Shrieking? Whining?

Does it shriek/ squeak/ whine/ the same when you have cooled the cpu
down with your external fan or what distinguishes and characterizes the
fan noise exactly?

 

[RayLopez99]

What does 'squeaking' mean exactly?

Shrieking? Whining?

Does it shriek/ squeak/ whine/ the same when you have cooled the cpu
down with your external fan or what distinguishes and characterizes the
fan noise exactly?

A ball bearing "rattling" sound, usually when it's cold weather or
upon startup. Goes away when it heats up and sometimes when I tap on
the case.

Blades had dust, I did blow off the dust. On occasion the rattle will
sound even during the day for two seconds. But the real mystery is
why, under full load, the PC seems to not handle temperature as
before--climbing to 135F and 140 F and then crashing. Strange I don't
recall this was a problem before under full load--even during past
Augusts and certainly not crashing. So my theory is the thermal
grease seal may have cracked (cracks are bad--air gaps), or, the fan
is spinning but not as many RPMs as before.

Thanks to Grider the info from NewEgg; bookmarked. I feel better
now...I think I can do this...but later in the fall. Too many things
can go wrong with such a minor repair--like doing your own plumbing,
which I've done--it's all in how many foot-lbs of force you apply,
which experienced plumbers know from experience and can do it seconds,
but the rest of us have to fiddle, sometimes for hours, to get it just
right and set the right seal or fit.

Finally, replacing the mobo and chip is actually a bigger deal than
replacing the HD, since it would necessitate buying a new system,
unlike just buying a new HD. I don't want to spend money on a new
system unless I have to...and yes I do backup my data weekly using
Windows-based Acronis, monthly using DOS-based Norton Ghost, and daily
for certain folders containing important business information.

Tx for your help,

RL

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200029
$15--more quiet than the other fan at TigerDirect

Rosewill continues its commitment to being "the best choice in value"
by producing CPU cooling products with high end performance without
the high-end price. Part of Rosewill's "Z" series designed
specifically for Intel processors, the RCX-Z200 performs comparable to
higher-priced units but at a fraction of the price. The long life 92mm
red fan spins at 2200 RPM allowing it to move over 48 CFM of cooling
air while generating a noise level of 20 dBA.

The fan sits atop a large aluminum heatsink with a full copper base
designed to maximize heat transfer from the CPU's heat spreader. The
large area of the cooling fins enables rapid diffusion of damaging
heat in the propwash of the fan. Its tool-less clip installation
feature makes it quick and easy to securely install the RCX-Z200 onto
an Intel Pentium 4 processor using the PGA or Prescott 3.2 / Socket
478 format.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261001
(thermal grease)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261001 (EST
wrist strap)

 

[RayLopez99]

"You should be able to replace the fan without having to
remove the heat-sync".....if you can find a replacement.  Not that
there is any lack of fan availability but there are a whole lot of
different sizes and sometimes there are issues in matching mounting
locations on the heatsink to the holes in the fan housing. Some of the
later fan mountings seem to have been made special for specific
motherboards for specific manufacturers, so special that fan failure
would just about justify M/B scrapping.

interesting. I took a long hard look and concluded that indeed it
seems the plastic fan has a fastener to connect it to the heat sink.
So I can indeed replace just the fan (assuming I can find it). But it
raises the question of whether that would lower temperatures. Is it
possible that even with a new fan I'll still have higher temperatures,
because the thermal grease has cracked and/or worn out?

Also of interest: seems that Socket 478 is designed to "pierce" the
motherboard--it exists on both sides on my mobo. I just noticed this--
I assume it's the Socket 478, not the heat sink, i.e., it's a plastic
contraption that exists on both the front and the back of the mobo.

If anybody can confirm this it will give me some peace of mind that
indeed this mobo does not have some sort of unique, weird heat sink
mounting that goes through the entire mobo, otherwise I'm toast and
might as well forget about replacing anything.

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

Also of interest: seems that Socket 478 is designed to "pierce" the
motherboard--it exists on both sides on my mobo.  I just noticed this--
I assume it's the Socket 478, not the heat sink, i.e., it's a plastic
contraption that exists on both the front and the back of the mobo.

Update: I bought a new heat sink and fan today, installed the same,
and now problem solved. This thread described by situation perfectly,
see the comment by "Tony":
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Penti...4 GHz - RK80532PE056512 (BX80532PE2400D).html

I may have applied too much thermal paste, because the temperatures
did not drop as dramatically as I thought...but they're within the
limits of this chip and without throttling occurring due to high
temperatures.

Now the only problem I have is that a case fan seems to be giving off
that ball bearing noise...on occasion. No way you can lubricate
these, can you? Took a look and they look like you cannot get any
lubricant in them without shorting out those copper windings.

RL

 

[bbgruff]

Update: I bought a new heat sink and fan today, installed the same,
and now problem solved. This thread described by situation perfectly,
see the comment by "Tony":
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Pentium_4/Intel- Pentium%204%202.4%20GHz%20-%20RK80532PE056512%20(BX80532PE2400D).html

I may have applied too much thermal paste, because the temperatures
did not drop as dramatically as I thought...but they're within the
limits of this chip and without throttling occurring due to high
temperatures.

Now the only problem I have is that a case fan seems to be giving off
that ball bearing noise...on occasion. No way you can lubricate
these, can you? Took a look and they look like you cannot get any
lubricant in them without shorting out those copper windings.

Glad to hear that you solved the CPU fan problem properly - isn't that better than your Heath Robinson set-
up?
Your case fans are not so urgent, but replacement is trivial - and very cheap. Why not do it?