MS OFFICE UpDate Site changes

[Guest]

I just went to the Windows Update site to see how my list of "Hidden Updates"
(IE7) appeared. All seemed as expected.

I then clicked on the Office Update Link on the page and it took me to a
"Login Page", never did that before! The address field was pre-populated
with my "Windows Live/Passport ID/Email Address"!!!! and was asking
permission to send me notices from MS and its Partners as well as agreeing to
stuff.

I declined! I clicked from my own shortcut and was taken to the New
Downloads Page from which I then had to select Office Updates which now has
installed a new Active X control. The new site is very different.

But why did they want my address, and why was it populated with my Windows
Live ID?

I tell ya folks, this Windows Live ID crap is spreading !!!

?:-(
Tim
Geek w/o Portfolio
Only the Paranoid Survive

 

[Guest]

Tim,

Though I can't duplicate this specific experience, I recently had a similar
situation occur when opening a Passport authentication supported site while
another Passport site was already open. Though I don't remember the entire
situation, I believe I was logged into MSN Dial-Up and then clicked a link to
a specific post on this Newsgroup, I think the link was on another Passport
site, the Windows Live OneCare forums, to which I may not have been
authenticated at that moment.

I was surprised when the authentication dialog popped up since I only
planned to view the linked post, but it's not surprising for the UserID to be
prepopulated, since this field always contains the last UserID entered.

In your case, the page you selected now offers 'My Office Online' which
"allows you to customize your experience on Office Online and contribute to
the Office Online community". Apparently the link you clicked triggered the
authentication dialog for this optional service just like mine did in the
case above.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA101694051033.aspx

I just clicked the 'Sign in' link on the Office Online page and was logged
into the 'Microsoft Office Online Registration' page without any dialog at
all, no doubt since I had just authenticated to the newsgroups to post this
reply. There's nothing really strange about any of this, since this
multi-site autentication is exactly what the Passport system was originally
designed to do. However, it sometimes fails to perform such a seamless logon
even when you're already authenticated on a different site, so the
authentication dialog is triggered with the last known passport.

If you're concerned that the system seems inconsistent and appears to be
changing, you're right. Major changes were made recently precisely because
the system is growing and going world wide to support things like WLOC and
other services. These are simply growing pains and are likely to cause such
things as you're seeing and even worse. The idea is to allow seamless access
to evrything your Passport allows, but in practice the system isn't quite
that fluid yet.

If you don't understand that this system exists it simply means you didn't
read any of the information provided when you acquired your Passport, since
none of it is secret. In fact, there were some major questions relating to
privacy which the computing and security communities demanded answers to a
few years ago when Microsoft first announced the system, and they were
answered at that time.

Here's a link to the Passport Network Home page if you wish to learn more
about the service and the Privacy protections that are in place.
https://accountservices.passport.net/ppnetworkhome.srf?lc=1033

Bitman

 

[Guest]

Bitman,

Thank you for taking the time to write such an extensive post. I, myself,
am not a great typist or writer and to reply fully would take me about a 45
minutes to compose, type, check and post. As I have raised this question
before I will keep my reply short.

Your wrote, "If you don't understand that this system exists it simply means
you didn't read any of the information provided when you acquired your
Passport..."

Actually, I am quite aware of the system and how it works. My concern is
the number of sites using the Windows Live/Passport ID, MS ability to track
users who use it, and my fear that it may someday be "required" to gain
access to information and services. Yesterday alone they know that I have
posted to this newsgroup, checked for updates to MS OFFICE and WINDOWS, have
rejected the offering of Internet Explorer, have updated Windows Defender
without using Windows Update, have checked their Security Advisories for 3 as
of yet unfixed security flaws, and have searched the MS KNOWLAGE BASE three
times and what I was searching for (I was prompted for my LIVE ID to get a KB
article AGAIN).

I know very well what it is and what it's doing,
And,
I don't think,
I like it very much !

?:-\
Tim
Geek w/o Portfolio
Only the Paranoid Survive

Tim,

I recently had a similar
situation occur when opening a Passport authentication supported site while
another Passport site was already open...

I was surprised when the authentication dialog popped up since I only
planned to view the linked post ...

There's nothing really strange about any of this, since this
multi-site autentication is exactly what the Passport system was originally
designed to do...

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE]

I just went to the Windows Update site to see how my list of "Hidden
Updates"
(IE7) appeared. All seemed as expected.

I then clicked on the Office Update Link on the page and it took me to a
"Login Page", never did that before! The address field was pre-populated
with my "Windows Live/Passport ID/Email Address"!!!! and was asking
permission to send me notices from MS and its Partners as well as agreeing
to
stuff.

I declined! I clicked from my own shortcut and was taken to the New
Downloads Page from which I then had to select Office Updates which now
has
installed a new Active X control. The new site is very different.

But why did they want my address, and why was it populated with my Windows
Live ID?

I tell ya folks, this Windows Live ID crap is spreading !!!

Half the time when I go for a public KB article it asks for my Passport
[Windows Live ID] password. Very annoying because it takes so long to
process even on a satellite connection.

 

[Guest]

Then go buy a MAC and let them track you, there's nothing you've listed that
isn't related to your relationship as a customer of Microsoft.

All you need to do to avoid this is simply don't click on links from one MS
site to the next. Then, if you wish to browse the site for public information
simply don't log in. If you wish to access information or abilities that
require a logon ID, then you either accept that or go someplace else. It
isn't any more complex than that.

There isn't a single such site that hasn't required me to accept an
agreement that explains the purpose and uses of data I supply to that site.
Since when I become a customer of most companies I directly or indirectly
allow very much the same access to true personal information, I see no real
difference. Microsoft is merely aware of the status of my PC relative to
various updates within a database that will only be specifically accessed at
my request, though this non-personal data may be used in aggregate form at
any time.

As a customer, this means that if I am having problems with my PC operating
system or other MS software, a Support Technician can view the history of my
OS on that PC and advise or suggest potential solutions. These same
technicians would be provided no access to my personal information such as
Credit Card info, since they have no need for it, though they might be able
to access my account to invoke a charge for service if that is required.

None of this is any different than, say, your telephone company having the
complete record of all calls you've made or received and other items specific
to that service. Even your grocery store often has similar information about
your buying habits if you've chosen to use their in store 'card' as a money
saving benefit, which often includes information like what you smoke and
drink, along with what you eat.

Personally, I trust an organization like Microsoft to have both more of an
understanding and the systems in place to protect this information than I do
either the phone/cell company or grocery store. This is what really matters,
since who has access in a legal sense is really less dangerous to me than who
might gain access in an illegal manner.

The point is that for years people have freely given this type of data to
everyone, including places like the gas station they just visited. It's only
when it becomes more visible in the day to day operation of something like
the Passport network that most ever even recognize what is really happening.
If you have any credit cards, accounts, or other interactions with any
business that aren't entirely cash and anonymous, your data is being
collected, stored and used to some extent.

The only difference with Microsoft is that pieces of the system are more
visible and more directly accessible to you the customer. This means the line
between what data is truly personal vs. what is simply technical information
about a specific PC becomes blurred and so requires even a better definition
by Microsoft. This is the most difficult thing for many people to understand
and if anything, may be helping them to better understand that this same
relationship exists to some extent in all their business dealings.

Bitman

 

[Guest]

Thank you Frank,

and my question again, in its simplest form,

WHY do they want our Windows Live ID just to read "a public KB article" ???
Will it someday be REQUIRED?

?:-(
Tim

Half the time when I go for a public KB article it asks for my Passport
[Windows Live ID] password. Very annoying because it takes so long to
process even on a satellite connection.

 

[Bill Sanderson MVP]

When this has come up in the past, the answer I've come down to, in the and
(meaning: this is my understanding of what is happening)--is that it is a
screwup of some sort in the complex network arrangements at the Microsoft
end of your connection. I don't believe this is a policy decision, or some
harbinger of things to come--just a bug.



--

Thank you Frank,

and my question again, in its simplest form,

WHY do they want our Windows Live ID just to read "a public KB article"
???
Will it someday be REQUIRED?

?:-(
Tim

Half the time when I go for a public KB article it asks for my Passport
[Windows Live ID] password. Very annoying because it takes so long to
process even on a satellite connection.

Frank Saunders, MS-MVP

 

[Guest]

Bitman,

I tried to click on the link you provided. Unfortunatly it asked for my
Windows Live Password, I refused!

By the way, I have no desire to use a Mac. I have been using Microsoft
products since MSDos 3.2
I was perfectly happy to hand over my hard earned money and never ever have
to have communiction with Microsoft itself.

It is Not My fault that MS now releases buggy products!
It is Not My fault that MS Windows needs to be patched!
It is Not My fault that MS Office needs to be patched!
It is Not My fault that MS Internet Explorer needs to be patched!

It is not My fault that I HAVE TO USE Windows Update
It is not My fault that I HAVE TO USE Office Update
It is not My fault that I HAVE TO search the MS Knowledge Base to find
solutions to problems with MS products.

Microsoft OWES ME ALL OF THIS because I PAID for it. I owe MS NOTHING! Not
even an email address.

You might be okay with buying products that have to be patched EVERY SINGLE
MONTH, I am not. I live in a Windows world so I DEAL with it. Just give me
my patches and the information I need and don't expect anything else from me.
Microsoft should be happy with the fact that they are not thrown in Jail for
"Patch Tuesday".

"Patch Tuesday, Patch Tuesday is the second Tuesday of every month when
Microsoft releases patches for their products. Some system administrators
call this day Black Tuesday"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_Tuesday
You may read this article with sigining in.

?:-(
Tim
Geek w/o Portfolio
In a world without walls we would not need Windows, or Gates

 

[Guest]

:
I don't believe this is a policy decision, or some harbinger of things to
come--just a bug.

--

Hope you're right Bill,
Love you as always,

?
Tim

"Tim Clark" wrote

Thank you Frank,
and my question again, in its simplest form,

WHY do they want our Windows Live ID just to read "a public KB article"
???
Will it someday be REQUIRED?

?:-(
Tim

Half the time when I go for a public KB article it asks for my Passport
[Windows Live ID] password. Very annoying because it takes so long to
process even on a satellite connection.

Frank Saunders, MS-MVP

 

[Guest]

Sorry, I meant WITHOUT signing in!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_Tuesday
You may read this article with sigining in.

?:-\
Tim
Geek w/o Portfolio
Or typing skills.

 

[Guest]

None of what you have just listed in this latest post has ever even requested
a Passport logon from me on any PC I've ever used. If it is on your PC, then
I would consider that you need the very help from Microsoft Support that you
have paid for.

Every Operating System or program for that matter requires updates. You or
possibly the software vendor might ignore this fact, but it's a simple truth
of the current quality and complexity of ALL software. Thus the only valid
complaint would be if the required updates are not provided.

What you have never stated is whether you can dependably reproduce any of
this spurious triggering of authentication dialog boxes, since you seem only
to identify a different situation each time you post. If you can, then that's
something that can be re-produced for MS Technical Support in an attempt to
find and fix your issue. Posting here in an alarmist manner every time you
find a new one is of no value to anyone, especially you.

Bitman

 

[Guest]

If it is on your PC, then I would consider that you need the very help from Microsoft Support that you have paid for.

If you read the post from Frank Saunders MS-MVP:

"Half the time when I go for a public KB article it asks for my Passport
[Windows Live ID] password. Very annoying because it takes so long to
process even on a satellite connection.
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP"

You will see that I am not the only one.

Every Operating System or program for that matter requires updates. You or
possibly the software vendor might ignore this fact,

I do not ignore this fact, InFact, I deal with it EVERY MONTH !

but it's a simple truth of the current quality and complexity of ALL software.

Or lack of quality

Thus the only valid complaint would be if the required updates are not provided.

You mean like this:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/advisory/925444.mspx
Please, let's not even get started on the number of unpatched flaw in MS
products.

What you have never stated is whether you can dependably reproduce any of
this spurious triggering of authentication dialog boxes, since you seem only
to identify a different situation each time you post.

No, Bitman, I cannot dependably reproduce them, that's part of the problem.
If you read Franks post he states it happens about half the time when he
tries to go to a KB Article, and he's a MS-MVP.

Posting here in an alarmist manner every time you find a new one is of no
value to anyone, especially you.

I do not post everytime I find one, in fact I had decided to just drop the
issue recently. It was the fact that this occured at a Required Site that
caused me concern. Is the average user going to know that they Don't Have to
Sign Up to get Office Updates or Knowledge Base Articles? I don't know.

And as far as alarmist is concerned,
Time will tell if I am the Canary in Mine, or Chicken Little.

In the mean time I will choose to accept Bill Sanderson's view that it's
another MS Bug.

I originally wrote a much longer respose, but when I tried to post the site
made me sign in again and I had to type it all over. I keep forgetting to
copy all before I hit post, Dam!

Tim

 

[Anonymous Bob]

All you need to do to avoid this is simply don't click on links from one MS
site to the next. Then, if you wish to browse the site for public information
simply don't log in. If you wish to access information or abilities that
require a logon ID, then you either accept that or go someplace else. It
isn't any more complex than that.

If only it were that simple...
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060503/0141241.shtml

Bob Vanderveen

 

[Pat Willener]

I just went to the Windows Update site to see how my list of "Hidden
Updates"
(IE7) appeared. All seemed as expected.

I then clicked on the Office Update Link on the page and it took me to a
"Login Page", never did that before! The address field was pre-populated
with my "Windows Live/Passport ID/Email Address"!!!! and was asking
permission to send me notices from MS and its Partners as well as agreeing
to
stuff.

I declined! I clicked from my own shortcut and was taken to the New
Downloads Page from which I then had to select Office Updates which now
has
installed a new Active X control. The new site is very different.

But why did they want my address, and why was it populated with my Windows
Live ID?

I tell ya folks, this Windows Live ID crap is spreading !!!

Half the time when I go for a public KB article it asks for my Passport
[Windows Live ID] password. Very annoying because it takes so long to
process even on a satellite connection.

Yes, I noticed this too over the last few weeks. The worst of it is that
it usually redirects to a 404 page once the login is complete.

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE]

Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE wrote:

Half the time when I go for a public KB article it asks for my Passport
[Windows Live ID] password. Very annoying because it takes so long to
process even on a satellite connection.

Yes, I noticed this too over the last few weeks. The worst of it is that
it usually redirects to a 404 page once the login is complete.

Haven't seen that.

 

[Guest]

Pat,

I too have seen the 404s but I belive it is unrelated to Windows Live ID
question.
I have seen it happen when I am NOT asked to login. Sometimes clicking the
link again helps, sometimes waiting a while helps. It is annoying.

?:-\
Tim
Geek w/o Portfolio

Yes, I noticed this too over the last few weeks. The worst of it is that
it usually redirects to a 404 page once the login is complete.

Half the time when I go for a public KB article it asks for my Passport
[Windows Live ID] password. Very annoying because it takes so long to
process even on a satellite connection.