Motherboard/Processor Qs

  • Thread starter Thread starter elziko
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elziko

I have a couple of questions although they may not me answerable!

1) I'm interested in an Abit NF7 motherboard, how likely is it to support
faster socket A processors? Is there an official limit?

2) Is there a point at which AMD will stop making socket A processors.... IE
if I buy an XP3200+ now am I unlikely to be able to upgrade in a years time
without changing motherboard because the 3200+ is as fast as they ever got
for SoA?
 
elziko said:
I have a couple of questions although they may not me answerable!

1) I'm interested in an Abit NF7 motherboard, how likely is it to
support faster socket A processors? Is there an official limit?
Click to expand...

SocketA has had a long prosperous life. It is now in the process of being
replaced by the 64-bit Socket 754 and 939. Of these, the Socket939 has the
best chance of being upgradable in the next few years. The downside is the
price of the processor.

Athlon64 2800+(retail) Socket754 $148USD
Athlon64 3500+(retail) Socket939 $425USD
(prices from Newegg)

Motherboards are about the same price, ~$135USD for a good one.

For less than $150US you could opt for a retail XP2500+ Barton and a good
but inexpensive motherboard like the Abit NF-7 or the Asus A7N8X-X. A
system like this well serves the needs of most users.
2) Is there a point at which AMD will stop making socket A
processors.... IE if I buy an XP3200+ now am I unlikely to be able to
upgrade in a years time without changing motherboard because the
3200+ is as fast as they ever got for SoA?
Click to expand...

I suspect it will be very hard to find an XP3200+, in SocketA, a year from
now.
 
SocketA has had a long prosperous life. It is now in the process of being
replaced by the 64-bit Socket 754 and 939. Of these, the Socket939 has the
best chance of being upgradable in the next few years. The downside is the
price of the processor.

Athlon64 2800+(retail) Socket754 $148USD
Athlon64 3500+(retail) Socket939 $425USD
(prices from Newegg)

Motherboards are about the same price, ~$135USD for a good one.

For less than $150US you could opt for a retail XP2500+ Barton and a good
but inexpensive motherboard like the Abit NF-7 or the Asus A7N8X-X. A
system like this well serves the needs of most users.


I suspect it will be very hard to find an XP3200+, in SocketA, a year from
now.
Click to expand...

There are some pretty cheap VIA chip AMD 64 boards I was checking out
, an MSI was 80 bucks and the popular ASUS one that was bundled with
the 3200 which if often on sale on EBAY - I think was 113. I put one
together for a neighbor - and its a really full featured board.

An interesting tidbit about the deal - a bunch of people got the 3200
AMD 64 and ASUS deluxe via board for $192 a months or two ago -
killer deal. I think that accounts for a lot of them selling on ebay .

The main reason I think they are selling cheap is INTEL and PCI
express. INTEL seems to be aggressive about pricing again maybe
because they are paranoid about the 64 and having problems with the
prescott and other things. I was looking at their chips and though AMD
finally has also slashed prices - the chips that arent at the top
especially the "Extreme " versions of the Pents are surprisingly close
to the AMD 64s. I think the Prescott 3.2 Intel is 245 bucks and the
3200 AMD is 215 bucks at Newegg now.

In addition the 915P chipset the lower end of the prescott 775 socket
they say is very close in speed to the 925 and is full featured and
surprisingly cheap. They have several boards in the 110-130 range with
PCI express. But whats interesting is one ECS I think it was , board
also has AGP and most (maybe all) have DDR AND DDR2 slots so you dont
have to buy DDR2 I suppose the thing that would make it much more
expensive.

AMD boards dont even have PCI express yet. But articles say now that
the VIA may come out in Sept and the Nforce 4 or 3 350 - whatever they
are going to call it , a few months later with PCI express. So then
the other boards will probably plummet in price as they get rid of
them since theres talk aof AGP being on the VIA too. They mentioned
socket A versions too.

I wish I had a crystal ball and could see AMD coming out with the
Winchester 90 nm 939 line which they flood the mkt with at cheap
prices which can Oc like crazy , undercutting Intel ---- with also
cheap PCI express boards within a year. Then Id just wait with my
current system until then.
 
There's the Chaintech VNF3-250. Got thos one for $82.00 a few weeks ago. It's
the Nforce3 754 chipset with AGP/PCI lock.>>SocketA has had a long prosperous
life. It is now in the process of being
 
S.Heenan said:
SocketA has had a long prosperous life. It is now in the process of being
replaced by the 64-bit Socket 754 and 939. Of these, the Socket939 has the
best chance of being upgradable in the next few years. The downside is the
price of the processor.

Athlon64 2800+(retail) Socket754 $148USD
Athlon64 3500+(retail) Socket939 $425USD
(prices from Newegg)

Motherboards are about the same price, ~$135USD for a good one.
Click to expand...

$135? More like $80 for a socket 754 that is good but lacking some fancy frills,

and $110 for a socket 939.
For less than $150US you could opt for a retail XP2500+ Barton and a good
but inexpensive motherboard like the Abit NF-7 or the Asus A7N8X-X. A
system like this well serves the needs of most users.
Click to expand...

So change the motherboard for the next upgrade. No big deal. By then the socket
939 motherboards will be cheaper.
because the

I suspect it will be very hard to find an XP3200+, in SocketA, a year from
now.
Click to expand...

It looks like AMD probably doesn't plan to make Athlon XP chips on .09,
so the 3200+ might be AMD's highest performing socket A chip. It looks
like AMD plans socket 939 Semprons on .09 for early 2005.
 
[email protected] said:
There are some pretty cheap VIA chip AMD 64 boards I was checking out
, an MSI was 80 bucks and the popular ASUS one that was bundled with
the 3200 which if often on sale on EBAY - I think was 113. I put one
together for a neighbor - and its a really full featured board.

An interesting tidbit about the deal - a bunch of people got the 3200
AMD 64 and ASUS deluxe via board for $192 a months or two ago -
killer deal. I think that accounts for a lot of them selling on ebay .

The main reason I think they are selling cheap is INTEL and PCI
express. INTEL seems to be aggressive about pricing again maybe
because they are paranoid about the 64 and having problems with the
prescott and other things. I was looking at their chips and though AMD
finally has also slashed prices - the chips that arent at the top
especially the "Extreme " versions of the Pents are surprisingly close
to the AMD 64s.
Click to expand...

You are comparing 32 bit Intel chips to 64 bit AMD chips?
I think the Prescott 3.2 Intel is 245 bucks and the
3200 AMD is 215 bucks at Newegg now.
Click to expand...

Xtreme Gear sells the retail box for $204.
In addition the 915P chipset the lower end of the prescott 775 socket
they say is very close in speed to the 925 and is full featured and
surprisingly cheap. They have several boards in the 110-130 range with
PCI express. But whats interesting is one ECS I think it was , board
also has AGP and most (maybe all) have DDR AND DDR2 slots so you dont
have to buy DDR2 I suppose the thing that would make it much more
expensive.

AMD boards dont even have PCI express yet.
Click to expand...

Who needs PCI express now? PCI Express might be important a few
years from now, but why get it now?
But articles say now that
the VIA may come out in Sept and the Nforce 4 or 3 350 - whatever they
are going to call it , a few months later with PCI express. So then
the other boards will probably plummet in price as they get rid of
them since theres talk aof AGP being on the VIA too. They mentioned
socket A versions too.

I wish I had a crystal ball and could see AMD coming out with the
Winchester 90 nm 939 line which they flood the mkt with at cheap
prices which can Oc like crazy , undercutting Intel
Click to expand...

Intel has nothing to compete against those chips, so why should AMD price
them cheap?
 
I have a couple of questions although they may not me answerable!

1) I'm interested in an Abit NF7 motherboard, how likely is it to support
faster socket A processors? Is there an official limit?
Click to expand...

NF7 is only "guaranteed" to support 166MHz (DDR333) FSB CPUs,
IIRC. Later revisions (I don't remember the revision numbers but
a web forum should help in finding this) should be fine running
200MHz, DDR400 FSB CPUs.

It will run any socket A CPU, including Barton and Sempron,
considering the FSB issue I mentioned above. Odds are quite high
that one will be fine at 200MHz FSB.

2) Is there a point at which AMD will stop making socket A processors.... IE
if I buy an XP3200+ now am I unlikely to be able to upgrade in a years time
without changing motherboard because the 3200+ is as fast as they ever got
for SoA?
Click to expand...


If you think you're going to need an upgrade of CPU in one year,
just skip socket A now. It might be better to just buy a median
speed CPU like an XP2500 Barton then use it however long you
want, keeping system whole and rebuilding new next upgrade, then
you have two complete systems and can find a use for (or sell)
the 2nd one.
 
You are comparing 32 bit Intel chips to 64 bit AMD chips?


Xtreme Gear sells the retail box for $204.
Click to expand...

Well --- some people have responded to my recommendation and others
saying theres no reason to buy the 64 since theres no 64 WIN and good
apps out now except that early version. Thats moronic in regards to
the 3200 XP since the prices are actually very close so theres no
reason NOT to pick the 64.except that youll have to get a new MB if
you already have a decent nforce2 or VIA for the XP , considering its
faster with current apps with the current OS. .


But when you compare it to the INTEL - its a mixed bag. Intel is still
a bit faster in some thing but then the AMD is better at some other
things and surprisingly the price can be close for the overall package
if you make certain choices. Considering the 64 bit stuff probably
wont be out for a long time and if you pick the AMD though theres
nothing wrong with the current 754 setup -- the fact that they lag
with PCI express boards if a factor. Things are in a transitional
state and I think PCI express will spread much faster than 64 bit apps
though you never know since INTEL seems paranoid about it , if they
try to headoff AMD and jump on the bandwagon too in a big way the
whole thing may take off far sooner than everyone thinks.

Its not that I think PCI express is going to provide a huge boost of
performance but if it does really takeover then it makes your older
AGP /PCI slot system and then theres the 754 socket too seem really
out of it a year or two from now especially if AGP cards go the way of
the PCI graphics card.

Also as many point out AMDs position as the chip that had much better
performance for far less money seems to be a thing of the past.
Reviewers note that the current process doesnt seem to be producing
super OCeable chips so that the next generation might be it.

It would be nice to see a 64 bit AMD 3200 at $125 that can OC to be
equivalent to a 4000 AMD 64 bit with PCI express and a 939 socket.
Of course thats too much to ask at this stage.
Intel has nothing to compete against those chips, so why should AMD price
them cheap?
Click to expand...

Well its crystal ball time again. It all depends on how fast 64 bit
catches on vs the PCI express boards available now for Pents, the
slight lead Pents still have in some areas and and the fact you can
get both systems now depending on what Pent stuff you buy and what AMD
stuff (socket 754) , at very similar price points.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Demos 64-bit Pentium 4 Chips

EM64T-enabled Processors Seen in Retail
by Anton Shilov
08/09/2004 | 11:47 PM

Intel Corp.’s retail partners from Tokyo, Japan, have started to
demonstrate boxes with special flavours of Intel Pentium 4 processors
featuring 64-bit capability. The move may mean intention to supply
such products into retail channel, which does not correspond to
Intel’s plans.

A report over Akiba 2 Go tells about a number of retailers who were
demonstrating Intel Pentium 4 processors in "almost" retail boxes
during the weekend. Processors’ packaging was black and white, while
typically Intel’s product boxes are made according to registered
colours for Intel’s trademarks, such as Intel Pentium 4 or Intel Xeon.


Intel Pentium 4 3.60F microprocessor

Earlier this year Intel unveiled its Extended Memory 64 Technology
also known under 64-bit Extension Technology or IA32e that let Intel’s
Prescott, Nocona, Potomac and other processors to execute
specially-written 64-bit code while maintaining absolute compatibility
with today’s 32-bit applications.

Intel said it would ship Pentium 4 “Prescott” processors with 64-bit
capability for 1P applications only to system integrators requesting
such microprocessors for their servers and workstations. Although all
Prescott CPUs, including Intel Pentium 4 and Celeron, are 64-bit from
micro-architectural standpoint, processors supplying for retail
channels as well as for typical desktops were said to have their
64-bit capability disabled. However, some sources doubt that it will
be absolutely impossible for end-users and hardware enthusiasts to get
Intel’s 64-bit Pentium 4 chips. They suggest that there will be some
of such microprocessors supplied as OEM parts and reaching the
channel.
 
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 09:24:29 GMT, "(e-mail address removed)"

Also as many point out AMDs position as the chip that had much better
performance for far less money seems to be a thing of the past.
Reviewers note that the current process doesnt seem to be producing
super OCeable chips so that the next generation might be it.

It would be nice to see a 64 bit AMD 3200 at $125 that can OC to be
equivalent to a 4000 AMD 64 bit with PCI express and a 939 socket.
Of course thats too much to ask at this stage.
Click to expand...

Considering their market positions, it's likley AMD will continue
to ramp chips such that midrange systems still can be built a few
$ cheaper... they don't really have much choice in the matter,
being the underdog to the Intel "name brand". Techies may know
the difference but many people would still take an Intel box and
just assume it's better.
 
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 09:24:29 GMT, "(e-mail address removed)"



Considering their market positions, it's likley AMD will continue
to ramp chips such that midrange systems still can be built a few
$ cheaper... they don't really have much choice in the matter,
being the underdog to the Intel "name brand". Techies may know
the difference but many people would still take an Intel box and
just assume it's better.
Click to expand...


Of course if AMD reps would say bribe us (ha ha ) by selling us an AMD
bundle 3200 64+Nforce 3 250 board , better yet a not yet released to
the public -- VIA with PCI express and AGP for say $150 --- Id think
we may change our tunes.............

Thats an open offer to INTEL too. Fee free to bribe the posters in
this sub so we can spread the word how great your product is.

Im still PO'd I couldnt get in on the AMD deal but then I get the
feeling itll soon reach that price with Thanksgiving and Xmas coming
up - and lots of new stuff coming out.
 
[email protected] said:
Well --- some people have responded to my recommendation and others
saying theres no reason to buy the 64 since theres no 64 WIN and good
apps out now except that early version.
Click to expand...

The Athlon 64 chips are great performers running 32 bit software on a 32 bit OS,
so even those who never plan to use 64 bit software or a 64 bit OS are buying them
for their great 32 bit performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=1

Of course an upgrade to 64 bit software will probably yield much better
performance. Here is one example where the 64 bit version runs 25%
faster than the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64 chip.

http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=257&p=2

Thats moronic in regards to
the 3200 XP since the prices are actually very close so theres no
reason NOT to pick the 64.except that youll have to get a new MB if
you already have a decent nforce2 or VIA for the XP , considering its
faster with current apps with the current OS. .


But when you compare it to the INTEL - its a mixed bag. Intel is still
a bit faster in some thing but then the AMD is better at some other
things and surprisingly the price can be close for the overall package
if you make certain choices. Considering the 64 bit stuff probably
wont be out for a long time and if you pick the AMD though theres
nothing wrong with the current 754 setup -- the fact that they lag
with PCI express boards if a factor.
Click to expand...

Not really. Who needs CPI Express? in a few years when CPI Express
is mainstream, it will be important. By then it will be time for a new
motherboard and a new cpu.
Things are in a transitional
state and I think PCI express will spread much faster than 64 bit apps
though you never know since INTEL seems paranoid about it , if they
try to headoff AMD and jump on the bandwagon too in a big way the
whole thing may take off far sooner than everyone thinks.
Click to expand...

I doubt it. It looks like Intel is desperate for sales, so they are try to
convince those who are upgrading to buy a new Intel motherboard
and a LGA775 processor. Think this strategy will backfire. PC
makers also don't want to start using new parts incompatible with the
older ones, unless there is a very compelling reason to do so. New
isn't always better.

http://techny.com/articles.cfm?getarticle=606&go=0.53769656
Its not that I think PCI express is going to provide a huge boost of
performance but if it does really takeover then it makes your older
AGP /PCI slot system and then theres the 754 socket too seem really
out of it a year or two from now
Click to expand...

More like 3 or 4 years from now.
especially if AGP cards go the way of
the PCI graphics card.
Click to expand...

Bad example.
Also as many point out AMDs position as the chip that had much better
performance for far less money seems to be a thing of the past.
Click to expand...

LOL! When you compare the chips needed for equivalent performance in
Business Winstone 2004, one can choose an Athlon XP3000+($95)
or a Pentium 4 3.2 ghz Prescott($220), or else choose an
Athlon 64 3200+($187) or a Pentium 4 3.4 ghz EE for $990.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

For Doom 3, one can choose an Athlon 64 3000+($150) or a
Pentium 4 3.2 ghz EE($815). The Athlon 64 3400+($281)
beats the Pentium 4 3.4 ghz EE($990) by a large margin
running Doom 3.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

I could go on and on.
Reviewers note that the current process doesnt seem to be producing
super OCeable chips so that the next generation might be it.

It would be nice to see a 64 bit AMD 3200 at $125 that can OC to be
equivalent to a 4000 AMD 64 bit with PCI express and a 939 socket.
Of course thats too much to ask at this stage.


Well its crystal ball time again. It all depends on how fast 64 bit
catches on vs the PCI express boards
Click to expand...

Do you think many will upgrade just to get CPI express? Can you show me reviews
where PCI express video cards outperform comparably priced
AGP boards similar in design(ie same GPU)?
available now for Pents, the
slight lead Pents still have in some areas
Click to expand...

That will probably not be the case when 64 bit software is used on
the Athlon 64.
and and the fact you can
get both systems now depending on what Pent stuff you buy and what AMD
stuff (socket 754) , at very similar price points.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Demos 64-bit Pentium 4 Chips

EM64T-enabled Processors Seen in Retail
by Anton Shilov
08/09/2004 | 11:47 PM

Intel Corp.’s retail partners from Tokyo, Japan, have started to
demonstrate boxes with special flavours of Intel Pentium 4 processors
featuring 64-bit capability. The move may mean intention to supply
such products into retail channel, which does not correspond to
Intel’s plans.

A report over Akiba 2 Go tells about a number of retailers who were
demonstrating Intel Pentium 4 processors in "almost" retail boxes
during the weekend. Processors’ packaging was black and white, while
typically Intel’s product boxes are made according to registered
colours for Intel’s trademarks, such as Intel Pentium 4 or Intel Xeon.

Intel Pentium 4 3.60F microprocessor

Earlier this year Intel unveiled its Extended Memory 64 Technology
also known under 64-bit Extension Technology or IA32e that let Intel’s
Prescott, Nocona, Potomac and other processors to execute
specially-written 64-bit code while maintaining absolute compatibility
with today’s 32-bit applications.

Intel said it would ship Pentium 4 “Prescott” processors with 64-bit
capability for 1P applications only to system integrators requesting
such microprocessors for their servers and workstations. Although all
Prescott CPUs, including Intel Pentium 4 and Celeron, are 64-bit from
micro-architectural standpoint, processors supplying for retail
channels as well as for typical desktops were said to have their
64-bit capability disabled.
Click to expand...

Why is Intel doing this? Are they overloaded in inventories of 32 bit
processors? The Nocona looks like it is a poor performer running
64 bit software.

http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2163&p=1

Could that be the reason? Or perhaps Intel wants to get very high
prices for their EMT64 chips from those who must buy from Dell, and
can't(at least for the moment anyway) get a system with an Opteron
or Athlon 64 from Dell.

However, some sources doubt that it will
be absolutely impossible for end-users and hardware enthusiasts to get
Intel’s 64-bit Pentium 4 chips. They suggest that there will be some
of such microprocessors supplied as OEM parts and reaching the
channel.
Click to expand...

At what prices? if someone has a choice, why would they choose one
instead of an Opteron or Athlon 64?
 
[email protected] said:
Of course if AMD reps would say bribe us (ha ha ) by selling us an AMD
bundle 3200 64+Nforce 3 250 board , better yet a not yet released to
the public -- VIA with PCI express and AGP for say $150 --- Id think
we may change our tunes.............
Click to expand...

LOL! Do you also want Lexus to sell you a car for less than a Ford Taurus?
Keep dreaming.
Thats an open offer to INTEL too. Fee free to bribe the posters in
this sub so we can spread the word how great your product is.

Im still PO'd I couldnt get in on the AMD deal but then I get the
feeling itll soon reach that price with Thanksgiving and Xmas coming
up - and lots of new stuff coming out.
Click to expand...

Great new stuff from AMD, however not much that is exciting from Intel.
Is Intel's latest strategy to slap huge caches onto their chips to keep
their fabs running closer to capacity(huge caches result in chips with
large die sizes). Judging from how expensive the P4 EE chips are
and the huge power consumption as well as the minimal performance
gains compared to the huge price and huge power consumption, I
don't think a strategy like this will work very well. I wonder what the
yields are on the P4 EE chips?
 
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