Microsoft? Unix?

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Why doesn't Microsoft follow they way Apple has done by running off a Unix
based OS. I'm just courious. I just want to hear responses not smart remarks
thanks
 
Kyle said:
Why doesn't Microsoft follow they way Apple has done by running off a Unix
based OS. I'm just courious. I just want to hear responses not smart
remarks
thanks

Why doesn't Mac develop their own instead of using UNIX. I can just use KDE
or Gnome under Linux if I want a "unix" based Windows system.
 
Hey Kyle.

People are already bitc*ing because their 14 year old DOS program doesn't
work. Do you really think that they would replace every single Windows
program that they want to use with a Unix version, assuming that the
programs manufacturer would even port the program to Unix?

I"m betting most manufacturers are not presently even capable of rewriting
their program into Unix.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Hello,

The reason is because the Windows architecture is working very well for
them.

Here I am not talking about something like "MacOSX vs Windows" as most
people normally think of it, as in the case of a complete installation of
OSX vs a complete installation of Windows.

I am talking only about their very CORE ARCHITECTURE - IE their "kernel".
This is the tiniest, invisble part of the OS that is the part that
absolutely makes things work, and that all the features of the operating
system and applications are built upon.

Apple was forced to rearchitect their core os/kernel because it was no
longer capable of allowing the types of features they wanted to offer on the
systems they wanted to build. The core os is like a foundation off of which
you build a house - they had outgrown their foundation and could no longer
build.

They decided to use the Unix kernel as their new base to build off of,
probably because it is one of the most prominent and widely tested core
architectures out there - using this would be much, much cheaper than making
a new core OS from scratch. And, as a plus for Apple, they found a way to
rearchitect their kernel cheaply (using something already there) AND
effectively compete with Microsoft (since some people consider Unix to be
superior and more secure than Windows, even though this is completely
misrepresented when talking only about the CORE architecture).

On the other hand, the "base" of Windows is still able to hold up to the
requirements Microsoft has for it, so they have no reason to change it. And
if they DID want to change it, I'm sure they would develop a custom
architecture, instead of using one that is currently available (like Apple
did).
 
Honset answer:
Microsoft has had it's own thing from the beginning with DOS. Every OS since
has been built from that. There is a windows like Unix program, called Linux.
Linux is open source and free. Moreover, it allows you to play programmer
because of that. You can write a program to fit your needs, if you don't mind
learning. I have a Linux machine I keep.
Getting back on subject. Microsoft has it's own operating system, which is
based differently than Unix. Microsoft could create Unix based programs, and
have. but Microsoft has built itself on the DOS and Windows OS. Which is
based completely different.
Now some will argue with me on this point but Windows is easier to run that
Unix based Linux. You don't have to deal with tar balls and all the bother to
load a program. With windows, it is simply point and click, just let the
computer do the rest.
Microsoft made a fortune off the windows operating system just for that
aspect. And which is why windows is still the top selling OS in the world
today. You ask why don't they create a Unix based OS? the answer would be why
should they? They have found a system that is, for the most, user friendly,
and a formula that works. and in the end, that equals more money.
Why don't they? It just isn't in the numbers.

Hope this helps.
 
First lets get some facts correct, MacOS X is not Unix based, it's
UNIX-like, based in fact on the XNU kernel, which itself is a hybrid kernel
made up of the Mach kernel and components from BSD 4.3 as well as an OO API.

There is no reason at all for Microsoft to release another UNIX based OS
(which by the way, Microsoft did, it was called Xenix, which then was bought
by SCO and became SCO UNIX in 1989).

Regardless of what the naysayers and haters may say, a modern Windows OS is
just as stable as any Linux or MacOS boxen.

Bill F.
 
"Regardless of what the naysayers and haters may say, a modern Windows OS is
just as stable as any Linux or MacOS boxen."

I'll throw in my 2 cents and agree with that last comment. Technical people
will argue technical merits and statistics in their technical vacuum and
there is "nothing wrong with that".

But from a single real world perspective (mine), I am a middleware
administrator/developer for a product we have running on both Windows and AIX
and I accept a weekly reboot for the Windows boxes and a monthly reboot on
the AIX boxes to keep our environment stable. With that said, overall our
Windows boxes give us much less grief. The unplanned outages may be more
frequent in number, but they are shorter (typically a reboot), cost less to
resolve, require less consultants, and quite frankly, it is much easier to
interface with the Windows staff(but enough about me). :)

One comparison is the eight-way AIX box that runs three of my servers and is
definitely at capacity. This load could be easily handled by three Windows
boxes. We've made some expensive decisions for the AIX systems (external SAN
storage with redunant fiber which also cause their own problems and outages),
but the end users and the business don't see any additional benefits as
compared to Windows.
 
I agree with Both Bill and PNutts. Lets be honest, Microsoft found a system
that works, and is pretty user friendly. Why would they want to mess up a
good thing?
 
Agreed. The NT kernel is stable, especially if a particular rendition would
keep drivers out of the kernel. Windows 2000 could achieve remarkable
uptimes. And Windows XP on every-day hardware is relatively stable,
especially in a business environment. There's no need to go to UNIX.

Now one might point to all the security problems. But, in my opinion, they
are not related so much to kernel as to the interface. Windows is designed
to be user friendly. Visit a website site and install-on-demand installs
whatever. The JavaScript isn't questioned. ActiveX Anything goes. So
anything can install. Vista is *somewhat* cleaned up in that department,
although by default the near forever opportune JavaScript still plays
without a check. Everyone has Admin privileges. In other words: it's a
party!

[I am not a software kernel engineer] So sure there are kernel security
issues, but I bet dollars to donoughts that except for some high-end
particular issues NT architecture is otherwise a secure kernel. So there
again there is no need to go UNIX.

Why do you think the anti-virus people are so mad? Why do you think
Microsoft is holding off on making the Vista kernel available to the virus
and anti-virus writers? Because they want to keep it closed. If they are
forced to put in hooks then the kernel becomes insecure. I'm not talking the
Security Center because they are making APIs available to interface that.
I'm talking the kernel. With Vista, I suspect the hooks are written out - to
keep things locked. Since Microsoft is refusing to make the kernel available
for at least a year [and I hope for longer than that] we should get a least
a year's grace before McAfee starts writing and releasing Vista viruses in
order to encourage sales of its anti-virus software. If the government
forces Microsoft's hands, Vista will become less secure and the software
sales of anti-virus companies will go up. I'd rather that Vista is more
secure. It's not that I have anything against anti-virus companies, it's
just that I don't like the idea of systems getting hosed. It's not right.
Vista is a step in the more secure direction.

 
Hey Bill, you forgot about Microsoft's second attempt at Unix or at
least Unix compatibility. In Vista Business Premium and Ultimate edition
there will be PowerShell (aka Monad). Which is a posix style shell on
top of the NT kernel for easy portability of Unix applications to
Windows Vista.

Not to mention the countless other applications Microsoft has written
for Unix based systems. (Do you remember IE for Unix? I do.)

But, Microsoft has found a very nice medium of stability and ease of use
with the NT kernel now. In Vista's final release we will see how much of
that concept they have grasped with out bogging down the average user.

-Luke
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Fitzwater [mailto:[email protected]]
Posted At: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:17 AM
Posted To: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
Conversation: Microsoft? Unix?
Subject: Re: Microsoft? Unix?

Hey Bill, you forgot about Microsoft's second attempt at Unix or at
least Unix compatibility. In Vista Business Premium and
Ultimate edition
there will be PowerShell (aka Monad). Which is a posix style shell on
top of the NT kernel for easy portability of Unix applications to
Windows Vista.

I think you are confusing PowerShell with SFU.

1. AFAIK, although it was planned before, PowerShell will not be shipped
in Vista. Which is a shame. Personally, I would easily trade whole Aero
UI stuff to PowerShell in Vista.

2. PowerShell doesn't have anything to do with Unix app portability.
PowerShell is a new command line shell and .NET-based scripting language
for Windows [administrators]. It is a great step forward from both CMD
and WSH and is powerful enough to stand against Unix shells like Bash.

3. Services for Unix is a set of services for interoperability between
and migration from Unix to Windows. Some components of SFU will are
included in Windows Server 2003 and Windows Vista.

References (watch line wrapping in URLs):

Powershell
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/management/power
shell/default.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/hubs/msh.mspx

SFU
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/interopmigration/unix/sfu/sfu35wp.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/interopmigration/unix/sfu/default.mspx
http://www.interopsystems.com/tools/warehouse.htm
 
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