Microsoft deliberately destroyed 10 hours of work

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lorne
  • Start date Start date
L

Lorne

Early this morning I set my laptop going on a 10 hour job that manipulates
large video files.

I have just checked it thinking it was about to finish and found a message,
I presume from Microsoft, saying that an update had automatically restarted
the computer. How can Microsoft be so stupid as to write software that
restarts a computer without user permission when it is in the middle of
running a program?

The result is I have to redo 10 hours of work (the program can't restart and
use the partially processed files I had on the disk, so I had to delete
everything and start from scratch). This is totally unnecessary, completely
stupid, and completely insensitive to users. Surely it is simple to write
code that asks if it is OK to restart and to wait for a user response before
doing anything. If there is something about this update that needs an
immediate restart then there should be a warning BEFORE it is installed so
it does not get installed until the user has said OK and knows that a
restart will follow.

How do I make sure this message gets to somebody at Microsoft who should
care about their customers and can do something to prevent this stupidity
being repeated?
 
Lorne said:
Early this morning I set my laptop going on a 10 hour job that
manipulates large video files.

I have just checked it thinking it was about to finish and found a
message, I presume from Microsoft, saying that an update had
automatically restarted the computer. How can Microsoft be so stupid
as to write software that restarts a computer without user permission
when it is in the middle of running a program?

The result is I have to redo 10 hours of work (the program can't
restart and use the partially processed files I had on the disk, so I
had to delete everything and start from scratch). This is totally
unnecessary, completely stupid, and completely insensitive to users.
Surely it is simple to write code that asks if it is OK to restart
and to wait for a user response before doing anything. If there is
something about this update that needs an immediate restart then
there should be a warning BEFORE it is installed so it does not get
installed until the user has said OK and knows that a restart will
follow.
How do I make sure this message gets to somebody at Microsoft who
should care about their customers and can do something to prevent
this stupidity being repeated?
Click to expand...

Start - Control Panel - Automatic Updates - use one of the four options
other than the top one.
 
If you were totally up-to-date on your patches prior to this incident, it
wasn't Microsoft.

They have not issued any new patches since September 12. And, I have never
seen a Microsoft patch that has rebooted a computer automatically. That
would just be foolish.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Personally, I wouldn't have had the machine connected to the net if I were
running a 10 hr process.


| If you were totally up-to-date on your patches prior to this incident, it
| wasn't Microsoft.
|
| They have not issued any new patches since September 12. And, I have never
| seen a Microsoft patch that has rebooted a computer automatically. That
| would just be foolish.
|
| --
| Regards,
|
| Richard Urban
| Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
| (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
|
| Quote from George Ankner:
| If you knew as much as you think you know,
| You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
|
|
|
| | > Early this morning I set my laptop going on a 10 hour job that
manipulates
| > large video files.
| >
| > I have just checked it thinking it was about to finish and found a
| > message, I presume from Microsoft, saying that an update had
automatically
| > restarted the computer. How can Microsoft be so stupid as to write
| > software that restarts a computer without user permission when it is in
| > the middle of running a program?
| >
| > The result is I have to redo 10 hours of work (the program can't restart
| > and use the partially processed files I had on the disk, so I had to
| > delete everything and start from scratch). This is totally unnecessary,
| > completely stupid, and completely insensitive to users. Surely it is
| > simple to write code that asks if it is OK to restart and to wait for a
| > user response before doing anything. If there is something about this
| > update that needs an immediate restart then there should be a warning
| > BEFORE it is installed so it does not get installed until the user has
| > said OK and knows that a restart will follow.
| >
| > How do I make sure this message gets to somebody at Microsoft who should
| > care about their customers and can do something to prevent this
stupidity
| > being repeated?
| >
|
|
 
There you go. Computer "common sense"!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Richard: We have several computers with Automatic Update, and many times we
come in and there is a message stating that certain updates required a
reboot, and that AU had done the reboot.

Tom

| If you were totally up-to-date on your patches prior to this incident, it
| wasn't Microsoft.
|
| They have not issued any new patches since September 12. And, I have never
| seen a Microsoft patch that has rebooted a computer automatically. That
| would just be foolish.
|
| --
| Regards,
|
| Richard Urban
| Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
| (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
|
| Quote from George Ankner:
| If you knew as much as you think you know,
| You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
|
|
|
| | > Early this morning I set my laptop going on a 10 hour job that
manipulates
| > large video files.
| >
| > I have just checked it thinking it was about to finish and found a
| > message, I presume from Microsoft, saying that an update had
automatically
| > restarted the computer. How can Microsoft be so stupid as to write
| > software that restarts a computer without user permission when it is in
| > the middle of running a program?
| >
| > The result is I have to redo 10 hours of work (the program can't restart
| > and use the partially processed files I had on the disk, so I had to
| > delete everything and start from scratch). This is totally unnecessary,
| > completely stupid, and completely insensitive to users. Surely it is
| > simple to write code that asks if it is OK to restart and to wait for a
| > user response before doing anything. If there is something about this
| > update that needs an immediate restart then there should be a warning
| > BEFORE it is installed so it does not get installed until the user has
| > said OK and knows that a restart will follow.
| >
| > How do I make sure this message gets to somebody at Microsoft who should
| > care about their customers and can do something to prevent this
stupidity
| > being repeated?
| >
|
|
 
Really?

I have automatic updates set to on. Over the past year I have received all
of them. Yet I always had the message that a reboot was necessary to
complete the update.

I would certainly like to run into the incident you describe so I can
research it.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Don't use Automatioc Updates but if you must then turn off the
auto-reboot behaviour in Group Policy Objects.

John
 
I have just checked it thinking it was about to finish and found a message,
I presume from Microsoft, saying that an update had automatically restarted
the computer. How can Microsoft be so stupid as to write software that
restarts a computer without user permission when it is in the middle of
running a program?
Click to expand...

How can you be so stupid to allow automatic updates and not remember it?

How can you be so stupid to have used this computer all that time and
not understood that some updates require that the computer be rebooted?

How can you be so stupid to not disable automatic updates when running a
long process?
 
Richard Urban said:
If you were totally up-to-date on your patches prior to this incident, it
wasn't Microsoft.

They have not issued any new patches since September 12. And, I have never
seen a Microsoft patch that has rebooted a computer automatically. That
would just be foolish.
Click to expand...

It is possible the computer was not up to date as I only use it 3 or 4 times
a month, however I think you are wrong about the auto reboot unless I have
misunderstood something. See below which is copied from the file
"WindowsUpdate.log". As far as I can see this is Microsoft and the lines
that say "Forced Reboot" suggest to me that the reboot was done
automatically by code:

2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Misc =========== Logging initialized (build:
5.8.0.2469, tz: +0100) ===========
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Misc = Process:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Misc = Module:
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuaueng.dll
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Service *************
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Service ** START ** Service: Service startup
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Service *********
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Agent * WU client version 5.8.0.2469
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Agent * SusClientId =
'5f0639b1-c4c8-4bf2-9f74-b8d1c9c731bd'
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Agent * Base directory:
C:\WINDOWS\SoftwareDistribution
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Agent * Access type: No proxy
2006-09-25 15:38:35 1276 948 Agent * Network state: Connected
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Agent *********** Agent: Initializing Windows
Update Agent ***********
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Agent *********** Agent: Initializing global
settings cache ***********
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Agent * WSUS server: <NULL>
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Agent * WSUS status server: <NULL>
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Agent * Target group: (Unassigned Computers)
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Agent * Windows Update access disabled: No
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 DnldMgr Download manager restoring 0 downloads
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU ########### AU: Initializing Automatic
Updates ###########
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU # Approval type: Scheduled (User
preference)
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU # Scheduled install day/time: Every day at
3:00
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU # Auto-install minor updates: Yes (User
preference)
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU AU setting pending client directive to
'Forced Reboot'
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Report *********** Report: Initializing static
reporting data ***********
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Report * OS Version = 5.1.2600.2.0.66304
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Report * Computer Brand = TOSHIBA
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Report * Computer Model = EQUIUM M50
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Report * Bios Revision = V1.30
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Report * Bios Name = Ver 1.00PARTTBL
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Report * Bios Release Date =
2005-07-04T00:00:00
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 Report * Locale ID = 1033
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU #############
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU ## START ## AU: Search for updates
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU #########
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 948 AU <<## SUBMITTED ## AU: Search for updates
[CallId = {1D866C78-ACC9-46F1-9626-02D93A86026F}]
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 748 Agent *************
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 748 Agent ** START ** Agent: Finding updates
[CallerId = AutomaticUpdates]
2006-09-25 15:39:53 1276 748 Agent *********
2006-09-25 15:40:07 1276 948 AU AU found 1 sessions to launch client into
2006-09-25 15:40:07 1276 948 AU Launched new AU client for directive 'Forced
Reboot', session id = 0x0
2006-09-25 15:40:08 3452 d78 Misc =========== Logging initialized (build:
5.8.0.2469, tz: +0100) ===========
2006-09-25 15:40:08 3452 d78 Misc = Process:
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuauclt.exe
2006-09-25 15:40:08 3452 d78 AUClnt Launched Client UI process
2006-09-25 15:40:08 3452 d78 AUClnt AU client got new directive = 'Forced
Reboot', serviceId = {9482F4B4-E343-43B6-B170-9A65BC822C77}, return =
0x00000000
2006-09-25 15:40:08 1276 79c AU AU setting client response for sessionId 0x0
to 'Pending'
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 Agent * Found 0 updates and 12 categories in
search
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 Agent *********
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 Agent ** END ** Agent: Finding updates
[CallerId = AutomaticUpdates]
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 Agent *************
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 Report REPORT EVENT:
{1E9256BB-E095-4A75-9FCC-2446CB33B402} 2006-09-25 15:39:53+0100 1 202 102
{00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 0 AutomaticUpdates Success Content
Install Reboot completed.
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 AU >>## RESUMED ## AU: Search for updates
[CallId = {1D866C78-ACC9-46F1-9626-02D93A86026F}]
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 AU # 0 updates detected
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 AU #########
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 AU ## END ## AU: Search for updates [CallId
= {1D866C78-ACC9-46F1-9626-02D93A86026F}]
2006-09-25 15:40:12 1276 748 AU #############
2006-09-25 15:40:28 1276 f04 AU AU setting client response for sessionId 0x0
to 'Complete'
2006-09-25 15:40:28 3452 d78 AUClnt AU client got new directive =
'Shutdown', serviceId = {9482F4B4-E343-43B6-B170-9A65BC822C77}, return =
0x00000000
2006-09-25 16:27:17 1276 7c8 Report Uploading 6 events using cached cookie,
reporting URL =
http://stats.update.microsoft.com/ReportingWebService/ReportingWebService.asmx
2006-09-25 16:27:32 1276 7c8 Report Reporter successfully uploaded 6 events.
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Misc =========== Logging initialized (build:
5.8.0.2469, tz: +0100) ===========
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Misc = Process:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Misc = Module:
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuaueng.dll
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Service *************
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Service ** START ** Service: Service startup
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Service *********
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Agent * WU client version 5.8.0.2469
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Agent * SusClientId =
'5f0639b1-c4c8-4bf2-9f74-b8d1c9c731bd'
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Agent * Base directory:
C:\WINDOWS\SoftwareDistribution
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Agent * Access type: No proxy
2006-09-25 16:57:49 1284 3e0 Agent * Network state: Disconnected
2006-09-25 16:58:38 1284 3e0 Agent *********** Agent: Initializing Windows
Update Agent ***********
2006-09-25 16:58:38 1284 3e0 Agent *********** Agent: Initializing global
settings cache ***********
2006-09-25 16:58:38 1284 3e0 Agent * WSUS server: <NULL>
2006-09-25 16:58:38 1284 3e0 Agent * WSUS status server: <NULL>
2006-09-25 16:58:38 1284 3e0 Agent * Target group: (Unassigned Computers)
2006-09-25 16:58:38 1284 3e0 Agent * Windows Update access disabled: No
2006-09-25 16:59:13 1284 3e0 DnldMgr Download manager restoring 0 downloads
2006-09-25 16:59:13 1284 3e0 AU ########### AU: Initializing Automatic
Updates ###########
2006-09-25 16:59:13 1284 3e0 AU # Approval type: Scheduled (User
preference)
2006-09-25 16:59:13 1284 3e0 AU # Scheduled install day/time: Every day at
3:00
2006-09-25 16:59:13 1284 3e0 AU # Auto-install minor updates: Yes (User
preference)
 
They have not issued any new patches since September 12. And, I have never
seen a Microsoft patch that has rebooted a computer automatically. That
would just be foolish.
Click to expand...

I see it happen all the time, including updates for Windows 2003 Server
and Windows 2003 Small Business Server.
 
Leythos said:
How can you be so stupid to allow automatic updates and not remember it?

How can you be so stupid to have used this computer all that time and
not understood that some updates require that the computer be rebooted?

How can you be so stupid to not disable automatic updates when running a
long process?
Click to expand...

Why should I disable auto updates - I want auto updates. What I also want
is for Microsoft to ask me before they restart the computer. It is not
stupid to set up your computer to auto update - in fact it is what Microsoft
recommend you do. What is stupid if for Microsoft to restart it when it is
in the middle of doing something without asking you first.
 
Lorne said:
Why should I disable auto updates - I want auto updates. What I also
want is for Microsoft to ask me before they restart the computer. It
is not stupid to set up your computer to auto update - in fact it is
what Microsoft recommend you do. What is stupid if for Microsoft to
restart it when it is in the middle of doing something without asking
you first.
Click to expand...

Start - Control Panel - Automatic Updates - use one of the four options
other than the top one.

This is the way Automatic Updates works. I would also prefer it to be
otherwise but that's the way it is and it is easily dealt with. It caught
you this time. Make sure it doesn't happen again or you only have yourself
to blame.
 
Kerry Brown said:
Lorne wrote:
Start - Control Panel - Automatic Updates - use one of the four options
other than the top one.

This is the way Automatic Updates works. I would also prefer it to be
otherwise but that's the way it is and it is easily dealt with. It caught
you this time. Make sure it doesn't happen again or you only have yourself
to blame.
Click to expand...

I will obviously have to use option 2 in future which is annoying since that
means I have to take action to get the updates installed and I would prefer
it to be automatic. What I do not understand however is why the install +
reboot was automatic immediately after downloading it at 4pm when Microsoft
help says that the auto setting will download the update but not install it
until 3am:

How are updates installed?

You do not have to be connected to the Internet for Windows to install new
updates. But updates must be installed, not just downloaded, before they can
help protect your computer. If you use the Automatic (recommended) setting,
new updates are installed at 3 A.M. However, you can change the time or
frequency of scheduled updates to best suit your needs.
 
Why should I disable auto updates - I want auto updates. What I also want
is for Microsoft to ask me before they restart the computer. It is not
stupid to set up your computer to auto update - in fact it is what Microsoft
recommend you do. What is stupid if for Microsoft to restart it when it is
in the middle of doing something without asking you first.
Click to expand...

You left the machine in Automatic Update mode, and that means that if an
update requires a reboot, it will reboot. You have a choice, you can
have it auto-download updates and ask you to install them, not download
updates, or download and install updates. Your mistake was that you
picked download/install instead of download/wait.

There are many things going on with a computer, the update system
doesn't, hasn't, won't, care what you are doing as long as you have it
set to download/install instead of download/wait.

Your message, as inflammatory, is a symptom of you not knowing what you
are doing.
 
It has been published that not all updates are downloaded at the same time
or even the same day.
http://blogs.technet.com/msrc/archive/2006/08/15/446848.aspx

This is based on an internal (not visible to the user) priority code, so
some critical updates will be at a higher priority than others. The upshot
is that you may have your updates spread out over several days and therefore
could be subject to the autoreboot issue more than once.

JS
 
Control Panel/System/Automatic Updates-to solve your problem, pick one of
the middle two choices. I use the second "Download updates for me, but let
me choose when to install them" which lets me choose not to install some I
do not want plus install at my chosen time.
Gene K
 
I've seen it as well.


| Really?
|
| I have automatic updates set to on. Over the past year I have received all
| of them. Yet I always had the message that a reboot was necessary to
| complete the update.
|
| I would certainly like to run into the incident you describe so I can
| research it.
|
| --
| Regards,
|
| Richard Urban
| Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
| (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
|
| Quote from George Ankner:
| If you knew as much as you think you know,
| You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
|
|
|
| | > Richard: We have several computers with Automatic Update, and many
times
| > we
| > come in and there is a message stating that certain updates required a
| > reboot, and that AU had done the reboot.
| >
| > Tom
| >
| > | > | If you were totally up-to-date on your patches prior to this incident,
| > it
| > | wasn't Microsoft.
| > |
| > | They have not issued any new patches since September 12. And, I have
| > never
| > | seen a Microsoft patch that has rebooted a computer automatically.
That
| > | would just be foolish.
| > |
| > | --
| > | Regards,
| > |
| > | Richard Urban
| > | Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
| > | (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
| > |
| > | Quote from George Ankner:
| > | If you knew as much as you think you know,
| > | You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > Early this morning I set my laptop going on a 10 hour job that
| > manipulates
| > | > large video files.
| > | >
| > | > I have just checked it thinking it was about to finish and found a
| > | > message, I presume from Microsoft, saying that an update had
| > automatically
| > | > restarted the computer. How can Microsoft be so stupid as to write
| > | > software that restarts a computer without user permission when it is
| > in
| > | > the middle of running a program?
| > | >
| > | > The result is I have to redo 10 hours of work (the program can't
| > restart
| > | > and use the partially processed files I had on the disk, so I had to
| > | > delete everything and start from scratch). This is totally
| > unnecessary,
| > | > completely stupid, and completely insensitive to users. Surely it
is
| > | > simple to write code that asks if it is OK to restart and to wait
for
| > a
| > | > user response before doing anything. If there is something about
this
| > | > update that needs an immediate restart then there should be a
warning
| > | > BEFORE it is installed so it does not get installed until the user
has
| > | > said OK and knows that a restart will follow.
| > | >
| > | > How do I make sure this message gets to somebody at Microsoft who
| > should
| > | > care about their customers and can do something to prevent this
| > stupidity
| > | > being repeated?
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
Richard said:
If you were totally up-to-date on your patches prior to this
incident, it wasn't Microsoft.

They have not issued any new patches since September 12. And, I have
never seen a Microsoft patch that has rebooted a computer
automatically. That would just be foolish.
Click to expand...

It's standard behaviour if you accept all the offered defaults in AU. If
you've ever looked at deploying SUS or WUS, it's spelled out quite clearly
in the documentation there for a start.
 
Lorne said:
Early this morning I set my laptop going on a 10 hour job that
manipulates large video files.

I have just checked it thinking it was about to finish and found a
message, I presume from Microsoft, saying that an update had
automatically restarted the computer. How can Microsoft be so stupid
as to write software that restarts a computer without user permission
when it is in the middle of running a program?
Click to expand...

The thing is, you (or your network admin on your behalf if this is on a
business network) probably did give permission, most likely without
realising the implications.

Right-Click My Computer, then choose properties. Click Automatic Updates. If
the top option "Automatic (recommended)" is ticked, then someone gave
permission for the updater to download and install updates automatically.
The thing is (and this is the part that really isn't explained well),
installing an update includes scheduling a reboot if the update requests
it - if an update requires a reboot then it isn't 'installed' until it gets
one, and permission was given to automatically install updates... So....

I have my selection at "Notify me, but don't automatically download or
install..." ever since the WGA debacle. It's all about trust, and with
actions such as foisting WGA on people and not explaining the full
implications of options such as "automatic update", Microsoft are not very
high on the list of computer companies I trust right now.
 
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