P
Peter
I'm just wondering where my problem reports go when I've marked them
"Public".
"Public".
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J
Jimmy Brush
They go to the same place that private bugs go, except public bugs can be
read and commented on by the technical beta testers.
read and commented on by the technical beta testers.
P
Peter
Thanks. So if they think it's worthy of comment they'll post it here? The
reason I asked is someone earlier today commented to mark such reports
public so they would appear here.
reason I asked is someone earlier today commented to mark such reports
public so they would appear here.
J
Jimmy Brush
No, the comments are made on the bug report via a private website.
The reason you should mark a bug as public is so if you have a question
about your bug report, you can post here and provide the bug id# that it was
assigned, and then one of the technical beta testers that read this forum
can look at your bug report on the private web site and tell you what it
says.
The reason you should mark a bug as public is so if you have a question
about your bug report, you can post here and provide the bug id# that it was
assigned, and then one of the technical beta testers that read this forum
can look at your bug report on the private web site and tell you what it
says.
P
Peter
Ok, now I understand. Thanks.
C
Chad Harris
Why aren't they all public JB and why does Connect hide full access to bug
contexts from the public?
The public can't access which bugs are fixed, search them, which bugs are
purportedly deferred (meaning fogeddahboutdit), how many bugs are marked "by
design" that aren't--I'd like a nickle for every beta tester who has
complained about the latter for nearly a year repeatedly and vociferously.
CH
contexts from the public?
The public can't access which bugs are fixed, search them, which bugs are
purportedly deferred (meaning fogeddahboutdit), how many bugs are marked "by
design" that aren't--I'd like a nickle for every beta tester who has
complained about the latter for nearly a year repeatedly and vociferously.
CH
C
Chad Harris
JB--
"via a private website"=Translation--"it's a secret."
"The reason you should mark a bug as public is so if you have a question
about your bug report, you can post here and provide the bug id# that it
was
assigned, and then one of the technical beta testers that read this forum
can look at your bug report on the private web site and tell you what it
says"
Isn't what you just described ridiculous, Russian Roulettesque, and counter
intuitive to anything an adult has ever learned to get done for himself?
Why should anyone who is interested in Vista enough to bug it have to submit
to that kind of arms length, chance situation. It's enough for MSFT people
to bug without having to hope someone "adopts their bug cause."
But I think it shows how stupid they believe the public might be.
Suppose you had to be somewhere tomorrow but were told you aren't allowed to
drive your car but a designated driver might see you frantically waving and
he can drive your car there? You could post here and maybe someone who is
on the list to drive your car can arrange to get you there.
That's a ridiculous scenario for anyone to consider.
How do you impose "clear, confident, connected" on that equation? It sounds
"Nebulous, tentative and disconnected to me?"
Talk about intuitive--for the whole Beta the IE Tools>Options>Delete Temp
Internet Files box says at the same time "delete browsing history" but that
is not what deleting tifs does or the signficance of it, or is it the same
as deleting history connected with index.dat (many users want their browsing
history intect; some might not). Why was it labled this way? Who knows
what the IE team was thinking.
CH
"via a private website"=Translation--"it's a secret."
"The reason you should mark a bug as public is so if you have a question
about your bug report, you can post here and provide the bug id# that it
was
assigned, and then one of the technical beta testers that read this forum
can look at your bug report on the private web site and tell you what it
says"
Isn't what you just described ridiculous, Russian Roulettesque, and counter
intuitive to anything an adult has ever learned to get done for himself?
Why should anyone who is interested in Vista enough to bug it have to submit
to that kind of arms length, chance situation. It's enough for MSFT people
to bug without having to hope someone "adopts their bug cause."
But I think it shows how stupid they believe the public might be.
Suppose you had to be somewhere tomorrow but were told you aren't allowed to
drive your car but a designated driver might see you frantically waving and
he can drive your car there? You could post here and maybe someone who is
on the list to drive your car can arrange to get you there.
That's a ridiculous scenario for anyone to consider.
How do you impose "clear, confident, connected" on that equation? It sounds
"Nebulous, tentative and disconnected to me?"
Talk about intuitive--for the whole Beta the IE Tools>Options>Delete Temp
Internet Files box says at the same time "delete browsing history" but that
is not what deleting tifs does or the signficance of it, or is it the same
as deleting history connected with index.dat (many users want their browsing
history intect; some might not). Why was it labled this way? Who knows
what the IE team was thinking.
CH
W
Will
Bug reports form technical beta testers only show up on
connect.microsoft.com and remember this is not the private newsgroups.
connect.microsoft.com and remember this is not the private newsgroups.
B
Beck
Chad said:Why aren't they all public JB and why does Connect hide full access to bug
contexts from the public?
The public can't access which bugs are fixed, search them, which bugs are
purportedly deferred (meaning fogeddahboutdit), how many bugs are marked
"by design" that aren't--I'd like a nickle for every beta tester who has
complained about the latter for nearly a year repeatedly and vociferously.
My guess is that some bugs may pose a security risk and if they were made
publically known could cause serious problems.
Incidentally, I wonder how many people do actually file bug reports for
Vista and how many people just use it because they want the latest OS? I
bet the majority of people who download it care not a jot about bug reports
and simply do not bother.
D
David Wilkinson
Beck said:My guess is that some bugs may pose a security risk and if they were
made publically known could cause serious problems.
Incidentally, I wonder how many people do actually file bug reports for
Vista and how many people just use it because they want the latest OS?
I bet the majority of people who download it care not a jot about bug
reports and simply do not bother.
My only current interest in Vista is making sure my own software will
install and run on it. If I discover bugs in Vista that prevent this
(and I have) I will most certainly report them (and I have). I do resent
the fact that I am unable to view the status of my own bug report.
David Wilkinson
D
David Wilkinson
Jimmy said:No, the comments are made on the bug report via a private website.
The reason you should mark a bug as public is so if you have a question
about your bug report, you can post here and provide the bug id# that it
was assigned, and then one of the technical beta testers that read this
forum can look at your bug report on the private web site and tell you
what it says.
Jimmy:
Where do I get the Bug ID? Did I forget to write something down? Can the
report not be identified by title/subject?
David Wilkinson
C
Chad Harris
Beck--
If you think exposing anything to the 26,000 beta testers many whom act
literally like children in so many and have the ability of children with
Windows in so many issues is any kind of security strategy, I'd like to sell
you some swamp land at Manhatten midtown real estate prices or prices in the
new prime Wall Street areas.
Rather it is that they are becoming less and less transparent and more and
more paranoid as competition gets better in many areas than they are with
software and their now wide spread hardware ventures like the awful looking
Zune which couldn't have been designed by anyone at Toshiba or MSFT with any
degree of visual acuity.
No one can answer the question directly of why bugs aren't directly
available to all so they can monitor progress. BTW almost zilch percent of
bugs reported fall into a security vulnerability. I'm talking about non
functionality or features that are just broken.
LOL if you want to talk about security talk about the best that the IE7 team
can do with IE compared to a Unix based system. There will continue to be
cascades of the usual monthly hotfixes in Vista and 99% of them will be
security exploits and UAC is going to inpact this minimally. Most people
will become fed up with UAC who are average users and not UAC bloganistas
who don't give a damn about the rationale. Whether enterprise CTOs and IT
personel who will get help from MSFT in modding it to their liking use it
for their 200 grand or whatever salaries is another diswcussion.
CH
If you think exposing anything to the 26,000 beta testers many whom act
literally like children in so many and have the ability of children with
Windows in so many issues is any kind of security strategy, I'd like to sell
you some swamp land at Manhatten midtown real estate prices or prices in the
new prime Wall Street areas.
Rather it is that they are becoming less and less transparent and more and
more paranoid as competition gets better in many areas than they are with
software and their now wide spread hardware ventures like the awful looking
Zune which couldn't have been designed by anyone at Toshiba or MSFT with any
degree of visual acuity.
No one can answer the question directly of why bugs aren't directly
available to all so they can monitor progress. BTW almost zilch percent of
bugs reported fall into a security vulnerability. I'm talking about non
functionality or features that are just broken.
LOL if you want to talk about security talk about the best that the IE7 team
can do with IE compared to a Unix based system. There will continue to be
cascades of the usual monthly hotfixes in Vista and 99% of them will be
security exploits and UAC is going to inpact this minimally. Most people
will become fed up with UAC who are average users and not UAC bloganistas
who don't give a damn about the rationale. Whether enterprise CTOs and IT
personel who will get help from MSFT in modding it to their liking use it
for their 200 grand or whatever salaries is another diswcussion.
CH
C
Chad Harris
David--
You can't view the status of your own bug report because MSFT considers the
public stupid. If you think I'm kidding check out the new pricing scheme
from some morons at Redmond. The whole idea of showing the public the Beta
theoretically is to allow them to learn it, enjoy the features, gain
confidence in using it, so that they want to and can easily make the
migration or transition if that's what homes and small busiensses would call
it. By denying the public access to almost all info on bugs, they put a
wall between them and their customers as to what the hell their doing--not
enough that's for sure with this thing that's getting shoved out the door 6
months too early.
I have to chuckle at Paul Thurott's "Vista Schizophrenia" that I don't think
is treatable with anything on the market.
Check out the thoughtful and very well written blog by Robert McLaw's at
Longhorn Blogs on this subject. Robert is a developer who very knowledgable
about Windows under the hood and a huge MSFT fan.
The Mechanics of Pricing Additional Vista Licenses Lower
http://www.longhornblogs.com/robert..._Pricing_Additional_Vista_Licenses_Lower.aspx
Windows Vista US Pricing and Launch Date Revealed!
http://www.longhornblogs.com/robert...s_Vista_Pricing_and_Launch_Date_Revealed.aspx
Robert is 1000% on target with this comment in the second link:
"I know one family that wants to move to Vista. they have 4 computers.
There's NO WAY IN HELL they're going to pay $588 for an upgrade copy of Home
Premium plus 3 additional licenses. It's just not going to happen.
I'm not even going to mince words here. Microsoft, you REALLY boned this one
up. I'm really glad that 40 influencers in one room telling you about how
important the additional license problem was meant absolutely nothing. "
We all know families are or part of them like the one Robert used for his
illustration.
I hope future builds become more usable for you.
CH
You can't view the status of your own bug report because MSFT considers the
public stupid. If you think I'm kidding check out the new pricing scheme
from some morons at Redmond. The whole idea of showing the public the Beta
theoretically is to allow them to learn it, enjoy the features, gain
confidence in using it, so that they want to and can easily make the
migration or transition if that's what homes and small busiensses would call
it. By denying the public access to almost all info on bugs, they put a
wall between them and their customers as to what the hell their doing--not
enough that's for sure with this thing that's getting shoved out the door 6
months too early.
I have to chuckle at Paul Thurott's "Vista Schizophrenia" that I don't think
is treatable with anything on the market.
Check out the thoughtful and very well written blog by Robert McLaw's at
Longhorn Blogs on this subject. Robert is a developer who very knowledgable
about Windows under the hood and a huge MSFT fan.
The Mechanics of Pricing Additional Vista Licenses Lower
http://www.longhornblogs.com/robert..._Pricing_Additional_Vista_Licenses_Lower.aspx
Windows Vista US Pricing and Launch Date Revealed!
http://www.longhornblogs.com/robert...s_Vista_Pricing_and_Launch_Date_Revealed.aspx
Robert is 1000% on target with this comment in the second link:
"I know one family that wants to move to Vista. they have 4 computers.
There's NO WAY IN HELL they're going to pay $588 for an upgrade copy of Home
Premium plus 3 additional licenses. It's just not going to happen.
I'm not even going to mince words here. Microsoft, you REALLY boned this one
up. I'm really glad that 40 influencers in one room telling you about how
important the additional license problem was meant absolutely nothing. "
We all know families are or part of them like the one Robert used for his
illustration.
I hope future builds become more usable for you.
CH
J
Jimmy Brush
I wondered where you disappeared to, Chad.
J
Jimmy Brush
You will get an e-mail from Microsoft when your bug is updated. This e-mail
will contain the bug ID. If for some reason the e-mail does not contain the
information you are looking for, you can post here with that ID and ask for
more information.
will contain the bug ID. If for some reason the e-mail does not contain the
information you are looking for, you can post here with that ID and ask for
more information.
J
Jimmy Brush
All reports are not public because many reports contain sensitive
information about the customer reporting the bug. One has to choose to make
a bug report public.
The public reports can only be seen by technical beta testers. The public
has no obligation to report bugs, and it makes perfect sense that access to
the connect website should not be open to the public.
However, I do agree that the members of the public who choose to report bugs
should be allowed to access their own bug reports.
Since TBT can only see public reports, they cannot search for an already
existing bug with any degree of accuracy (assumuing that would even be
possible with the hundreds of thousands of bug reports filed and the
infinate number of permutations that the same bug report could be named).
Therefore, it is best to just file a bug report regardless of whether it has
been filed before. MS has even said that they want us to do that anyway so
they can get an idea of how widespread a bug is.
As for by design bugs ... yes, I have filed many bugs that have been marked
by design that I didn't agree with ... and I always leave a comment
explaining why I think it should be changed. Sometimes MS changes it,
sometimes they don't ... but my feedback is always read and considered,
which is the point.
information about the customer reporting the bug. One has to choose to make
a bug report public.
The public reports can only be seen by technical beta testers. The public
has no obligation to report bugs, and it makes perfect sense that access to
the connect website should not be open to the public.
However, I do agree that the members of the public who choose to report bugs
should be allowed to access their own bug reports.
Since TBT can only see public reports, they cannot search for an already
existing bug with any degree of accuracy (assumuing that would even be
possible with the hundreds of thousands of bug reports filed and the
infinate number of permutations that the same bug report could be named).
Therefore, it is best to just file a bug report regardless of whether it has
been filed before. MS has even said that they want us to do that anyway so
they can get an idea of how widespread a bug is.
As for by design bugs ... yes, I have filed many bugs that have been marked
by design that I didn't agree with ... and I always leave a comment
explaining why I think it should be changed. Sometimes MS changes it,
sometimes they don't ... but my feedback is always read and considered,
which is the point.