Mcafee or Norton

  • Thread starter Thread starter Craig Davies
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Craig Davies

Which is the better option out of the two:
Norton Internet Security 2006
Mcafee 8 Internet Security Suite 2006

In terms of its user-friendly useage? Any problems you have experienced with
either them etc Also if you have both which did you prefer and why

I want to get one and i aint sure which one.
 
Craig Davies said:
Which is the better option out of the two:
Norton Internet Security 2006
Mcafee 8 Internet Security Suite 2006

In terms of its user-friendly useage? Any problems you have experienced
with
either them etc Also if you have both which did you prefer and why

I want to get one and i aint sure which one.
Neither. Both are resource hogs.
Get Kaspersky or Nod32. These two use less resources and find more malware.
Jim
 
Craig said:
Which is the better option out of the two:
Norton Internet Security 2006
Mcafee 8 Internet Security Suite 2006

In terms of its user-friendly useage? Any problems you have experienced with
either them etc Also if you have both which did you prefer and why

I want to get one and i aint sure which one.

Follow Jim's advice, and then add a personal firewall, such as Kerio.
http://sunbelt-software.com/Kerio.cfm Free.

Add a couple of malware detectors, too. Ad-Aware and Spybot Search &
Destroy.
 
Per Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
Follow Jim's advice, and then add a personal firewall, such as Kerio.

Anybody want to venture an opinion on the firewall that comes built in to XP?

I'm about to dump PC-Cillin in favor of Kaspersky, and if the XP firewall is
good enough I'll stop there.
 
(PeteCresswell) said:
Per Beauregard T. Shagnasty:

Anybody want to venture an opinion on the firewall that comes built in
to XP?

Sure. It's Inbound only. 'Nuf said?
I'm about to dump PC-Cillin in favor of Kaspersky, and if the XP
firewall is good enough I'll stop there.

Don't stop there... :-)
 
Per Beauregard T. Shagnasty:

Anybody want to venture an opinion on the firewall that comes built in to XP?

I'm about to dump PC-Cillin in favor of Kaspersky, and if the XP firewall is
good enough I'll stop there.

The XP firewall serves the purpose of blocking unsolicited inbound,
whcih is all you need for defense. There are several free software
firewalls that no only do that but also alert users to unauthorised
outbound (plus usually some other features). The best bet though
is a "always there" external router/firewall so you have protection
when your sw firewall is temporarily disabled for any reason. Remember
that it's easy for malicious code to defeat software firewalls (and av
software). And consider what your plan is if you ever have to reformat
and reinstall Windows, and go online. It just takes a few minutes to
take a hit nowdays. So don't depend on taking the time to download
a sw firewall ... keep a copy of the install file on CD.

Art
http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
Craig Davies said:
Which is the better option out of the two:
Norton Internet Security 2006
Mcafee 8 Internet Security Suite 2006

In terms of its user-friendly useage? Any problems you have experienced
with
either them etc Also if you have both which did you prefer and why

I want to get one and i aint sure which one.


Most that complain about one or both being resource hogs haven't a clue that
they can install those products without including every component within
(i.e., just say no to all the fluff). Most refer to the suite of tools
rather than focus on one particular component, like the anti-virus component
of which you ask (and even then you can reduce overhead, like not bothering
with e-mail scanning). There are leaner products but most don't have the
same level of coverage (although KAV beats them alas I haven't info on how
many processes it runs and how much memory they consume).

It's been a year, or more, since I used Norton AntiVirus (and JUST that
product separate of their suite). Even if you install their suite, consider
if you need, for example, their Parental Control component which loads a
large table into memory (so it bloats) and will slow IE a bit to interrogate
the table on every access, including those within a page. A file server or
other enterprise node probably should not be running an AV program at all,
or use an enterprise solution and not some personal desktop product.

I have found McAfee, in the past, to be too intrusive in that it will do
background scans of updated files despite that I am using the host (i.e., it
won't shutup when I'm busy) plus their enterprise product pushes updates
while I am busy. Their desktop product isn't any worse than Norton and no
worse than the freebies that I've tried (AVG, EzAntivirus, AntiVir, etc.).
However, there are 2 problems which I consider major that made me abandon
the product:

- Their locally executed web applications (that they use for their
interface) are ran under the Internet security zone. ActiveX control upon
which they rely may not run if you have configured the Internet security
zone to Prompt for running and scripting of AX controls and plug-ins. Their
window is not a full-blown browser so you don't get a prompt. Since you
cannot answer a prompt that doesn't appear, their AX control won't run and
you get a bitch message from them saying to lower the security level of your
Internet security zone. In other words, you have to reduce security to use
their security product. It is amazing that no one at McAfee knows how to
code HTAs (HTML Applications) which provide for executing local web
applications but under the My Computer security zone, including any objects
called within the HTA, like AX controls. There is a registry hack where you
can define the "mcp://" protocol that appears unique for use by McAfee which
is a workaround but I only tested it for about a week.

- Automatic updates won't work unless you login once to their web site AND
you save their cookie. I don't save cookies except for whitelisted domains,
and I don't whitelist McAfee's domain. Any product that updates itself
shouldn't need a cookie because it is not a secure method of authenticating
a user (i.e., to validate that they have an account) and it is suspectible
to deletion due to cleanup on the user's host. There is no point in
securing the updates, anyway, since they are of no value except to users of
their products.

So unless you want to degrade your Internet security zone (to its Medium
setting) and unless you keep their cookie, their windows to their interface
won't work and you won't get automatic updates. The workarounds would be to
define the mcp:// protocol that McAfee uses to run their local web
applications and to keep their cookie around. I like their core product but
their UI implementation sucks (well, for me, I refuse to lower security to
use their product). Symantec had problems running local web apps, too, but
I believe those disappeared about version 2002.

Just be sure how much bloat you want to install. Use the custom install to
select just the AV product if that is all you want, and then configure NAV
to only enable what features you want. You'll probably want to disable
e-mail scanning, but that is not just a problem with NAV but with all AV
products (NAV, at least, for inbound mails, has an option to send a bogus
X-header to the e-mail client to try to keep it from timing out). You only
mention Norton Antivirus and McAfee VirusScan but often users are actually
asking about the entire suite, much of which is fluff. I wasn't impressed
with, for example, Norton Anti-Spam, and instead use SpamPal which is free
but, hey, something is better than nothing unless you are one of the lucky
few that never get spammed.

You never mentioned WHICH component of each suite for which you wanted
information. As for their firewalls, I found Norton's firewall to give me
better control and information. However, Sygate's Personal Firewall Pro is
better than Norton. Alas, Symantec bought Sygate and then promptly
discarded the firewall to deliberately eliminate a competitor. Although I
use the Pro version, the non-Pro version (which doesn't require a product
key) can still be found for download, and I like it better than Norton's
firewall (which I like better than McAfee's which is mostly a fluff
interface and you can't even watch the traffic as it occurs to see the
connections). Sygate provides IDS (intrusion detection system) even in the
non-Pro free version but since Symantec killed the product means those
signatures don't get updated. To supplant that loss of IDS in the Sygate
firewall (Pro or non-Pro), I use Prevx1 R ("research" version is free). You
could even use Prevx1 by itself as it detects viruses, spyware, trojans, and
other malware but it cooperates with anti-virus and firewall products. I
don't like the minimal firewall-like application rules in Prevx1 (which only
apply against unknown apps) so I still use a 3rd party firewall. Prevx is
planning to add a firewall later. However, Prevx isn't for the boob because
it will popup prompts asking you what to allow, so you'll have to understand
the prompt (and answering Yes or Allow to every prompt defeats the security
so you might as not bother with that product).

Few anti-virus and firewall products actually protect themselves from
getting killed or suspended by malware (if it manages to get under your
radar and still run on your host). Sygate's firewall (Pro and freebie)
tries some to protect itself but isn't kill-proof. Prevx should help to
discover any malware that runs and pend any action it attempts awaiting your
response to Allow or Block (so it comes back to you to understand the
prompt). ProcessGuard regulates what can load into memory and what actions
it can commit on other processes. The freebie version should be good enough
but it doesn't block every possible method of killing a process, especially
if there is a UI for the process. However, like Prevx, you will be
innundated with prompts at first asking if you want to allow a program to
run (but it does have a Learn mode but which should be used after you have
thoroughly confirmed your host is clean). I still use Prevx1 but
ProcessGuard was becoming just too much hassle for me, and I consider having
a firewall, IDS, and anti-virus programs as sufficient and ProcessGuard a
bit overkill.

So while you are considering a choice between McAfee and Norton, you might
want to look into freebie alternatives of which I'd recommend finding a
download of Sygate's personal firewall
(http://www.simtel.com/product.download.mirrors.php?id=53687) and CA's
EzAntivirus (http://www.my-etrust.com/microsoft). Then consider if you want
to add Prevx1 and/or ProcessGuard to the mix. And the cost? Zero!
 
Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
Sure. It's Inbound only. 'Nuf said?

Not after Windows XP SP-2 (but obviously you need to be using Windows XP for
that service pack). If an application wants a connection, you will get a
prompt. However, there is very little you get to configure regarding that
connection. What you get, after first FULLY allowing that application to
connect, are the following configurable options for the application rule
that got added (under the Exceptions tab):

To specify the set of computers for which this port or program is unblocked:
- Any computer (including those on the Internet).
- My network (subnet only).
- Custom list.

Note that both an appliation or a port can be restricted. While these rules
do not allow the user to configure whether the connection allowed is only
inbound, only outbound, or both, it does offer control over which
application can have ANY connection. That is, it is not strictly an
outbound-connection rule but then neither are application rules in 3rd party
firewalls. For example, I use Sygate and it also defaults to allowing both
inbound and outbound connects to a process and I have to edit that app rule
to make it an outbound-only connect, like for the svchost.exe process. Just
because other firewalls have application rules, remember that most aren't
just defining outbound permission. Most default to giving full permission
in BOTH directions and it is up to you to decide if you want to further
restrict the direction of traffic (regarding unsolicited traffic). But even
Windows firewall gives you the same function of specifying if a program can
even get a connection in the first place.

So it is a misconception that the Windows firewall doesn't have application
rules. It does but it permits traffic in both directions - but then so do
most other firewalls (they just let you further edit the rule to block or
allow in only one direction or allow both). If you wander around to all
those desktops that are running 3rd party firewalls, you will see most users
simply use the default application rule that gets defined by their 3rd party
firewall, and those default app rules permit traffic in BOTH directions. In
other words, by default, the applications rules in most firewalls are simply
access control lists that decide if an application will have a connection
but don't specify the direction of traffic.

Some firewalls, like Norton's, have a database of common applications with
preset rules, so when you allow the application to have a connection then
you get those preset rules from their database. I think ZoneAlarm might
also have a list of common applications to know how it should configure app
rules for those. The McAfee and Sygate firewalls simply default to allowing
FULL access (i.e., inbound and outbound) and you have to follow up by
editing the app rule to make it one-directional, if even needed.
 
Per Art:
The XP firewall serves the purpose of blocking unsolicited inbound,
whcih is all you need for defense. There are several free software
firewalls that no only do that but also alert users to unauthorised
outbound (plus usually some other features). The best bet though
is a "always there" external router/firewall so you have protection
when your sw firewall is temporarily disabled for any reason. Remember
that it's easy for malicious code to defeat software firewalls (and av
software). And consider what your plan is if you ever have to reformat
and reinstall Windows, and go online. It just takes a few minutes to
take a hit nowdays. So don't depend on taking the time to download
a sw firewall ... keep a copy of the install file on CD.

I've got a hardware firewall.

Been there on the "just takes a few minutes" scenario. I think it was before I
got the hardware firewall. Wound up with something that was sending
invitations to other computers to hit on me. Was getting 2-3 hits per second
and, because of TrendMicro/PC-Cillin's goofey interruptive warning dialog it
basically rendered my PC useless.

Given a hardware firewall - LinkSys router with NAS (whatever that is....)
would you feel comfortable with XP inbound-only software firewall or would you
take the time to get one of the freebies that goes both ways... or would you
purchase something?
 
Per Art:

I've got a hardware firewall.

Been there on the "just takes a few minutes" scenario. I think it was before I
got the hardware firewall. Wound up with something that was sending
invitations to other computers to hit on me. Was getting 2-3 hits per second
and, because of TrendMicro/PC-Cillin's goofey interruptive warning dialog it
basically rendered my PC useless.

Given a hardware firewall - LinkSys router with NAS (whatever that is....)

Probably you mean NAT.
would you feel comfortable with XP inbound-only software firewall
or would you take the time to get one of the freebies that goes both ways...
or would you purchase something?

Personally, I don't use anything but my NAT router/firewall. I like
the free version of Sygate fw because of its excellent traffic log
but I have no need to have it enabled all the time. It depends on
on your activities ... what services you want to run, and whether
or not you have other PCs connected with file/printer sharing. In
my case, I purchased the router so I can share my DSL service
on two PCs. But I have no interest in sharing files and printer.
I disable all that stuff including all unnecessary services.

Art


http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
Art said:
The XP firewall serves the purpose of blocking unsolicited inbound,
whcih is all you need for defense. There are several free software
firewalls that no only do that but also alert users to unauthorised
outbound (plus usually some other features). The best bet though
is a "always there" external router/firewall so you have protection
when your sw firewall is temporarily disabled for any reason. Remember
that it's easy for malicious code to defeat software firewalls (and av
software). And consider what your plan is if you ever have to reformat
and reinstall Windows, and go online. It just takes a few minutes to
take a hit nowdays. So don't depend on taking the time to download
a sw firewall ... keep a copy of the install file on CD.

Art
http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
When I am about to install either an AV or a firewall, I always download the
product first.
Then, I turn off the DSL modem.
Next, I remove whatever needs to be removed. If you are unfortunate enough
to Norton, be prepared to spend some time getting rid of it.
Then, I install the replacement.
Finally, I turn back on the DSL modem.

Jim
 
When I am about to install either an AV or a firewall, I always download the
product first.
Then, I turn off the DSL modem.
Next, I remove whatever needs to be removed. If you are unfortunate enough
to Norton, be prepared to spend some time getting rid of it.
Then, I install the replacement.
Finally, I turn back on the DSL modem.

Seems you missed my point which is basically to never be on the
internet for even a short time without a firewall. In your case, it
doesn't make any difference since your router/firewall is "always
there" ... you don't have to be concerned. So I don't understand
why you bother to turn the modem on and off.

Art
http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
Craig said:
Which is the better option out of the two:
Norton Internet Security 2006
Mcafee 8 Internet Security Suite 2006

In terms of its user-friendly useage? Any problems you have experienced
with
either them etc Also if you have both which did you prefer and why

I want to get one and i aint sure which one.

nis2006 IS AWFUL AWFUL. The awfulness is made slightly less awful if your
computer has plenty of ram, 512mb.

You should not attempt to run nis2006 on an xp machine with 256mb of memory,
Mcafee has similar difficulties.

Plenty of alternatives exist, for free AVG is excellent...If you insist on
handing over cash NOD32 always recieves rave reviews.

The problems with norton and mcafee are not their definitions, they have the
best going, especially mcaffee, their problem is the software is so truly
truly awful, it is buggy, slow to respond, and frequently deactivates for no
reason, they infest every area of your computer and can reduce performance
by more then 90%.

In laboratory conditions they appear to be good, put them in the wild though
and they are a real piece of poo.

Gaz
 
Beauregard said:
Sure. It's Inbound only. 'Nuf said?

For a novice user, who just gives permission to eveything on their firewal,
to stop the popup warnings (as *every* novice customer I have come across
has done,) they are no better protection. XP firewall is sufficient for the
majority of home users, for the majority of the time.

Gaz
 
Craig Davies said:
Which is the better option out of the two:
Norton Internet Security 2006
Mcafee 8 Internet Security Suite 2006

In terms of its user-friendly useage? Any problems you have experienced with
either them etc Also if you have both which did you prefer and why

I want to get one and i aint sure which one.

Neither!

I agree with Beauregard T. Shagnasty.

Chas.
 
Gaz said:
nis2006 IS AWFUL AWFUL. The awfulness is made slightly less awful if your
computer has plenty of ram, 512mb.

You should not attempt to run nis2006 on an xp machine with 256mb of
memory, Mcafee has similar difficulties.

Plenty of alternatives exist, for free AVG is excellent...If you insist on
handing over cash NOD32 always recieves rave reviews.

The problems with norton and mcafee are not their definitions, they have
the best going, especially mcaffee, their problem is the software is so
truly truly awful, it is buggy, slow to respond, and frequently
deactivates for no reason, they infest every area of your computer and can
reduce performance by more then 90%.

In laboratory conditions they appear to be good, put them in the wild
though and they are a real piece of poo.

Defino not good for my PC then as I run Win 98 and 64MB memory
 
Vanguard said:
Most that complain about one or both being resource hogs haven't a clue
that they can install those products without including every component
within (i.e., just say no to all the fluff). Most refer to the suite of
tools rather than focus on one particular component, like the anti-virus
component of which you ask (and even then you can reduce overhead, like
not bothering with e-mail scanning). There are leaner products but most
don't have the same level of coverage (although KAV beats them alas I
haven't info on how many processes it runs and how much memory they
consume).

It's been a year, or more, since I used Norton AntiVirus (and JUST that
product separate of their suite). Even if you install their suite,
consider if you need, for example, their Parental Control component which
loads a large table into memory (so it bloats) and will slow IE a bit to
interrogate the table on every access, including those within a page. A
file server or other enterprise node probably should not be running an AV
program at all, or use an enterprise solution and not some personal
desktop product.

I have found McAfee, in the past, to be too intrusive in that it will do
background scans of updated files despite that I am using the host (i.e.,
it won't shutup when I'm busy) plus their enterprise product pushes
updates while I am busy. Their desktop product isn't any worse than
Norton and no worse than the freebies that I've tried (AVG, EzAntivirus,
AntiVir, etc.). However, there are 2 problems which I consider major that
made me abandon the product:

- Their locally executed web applications (that they use for their
interface) are ran under the Internet security zone. ActiveX control upon
which they rely may not run if you have configured the Internet security
zone to Prompt for running and scripting of AX controls and plug-ins.
Their window is not a full-blown browser so you don't get a prompt. Since
you cannot answer a prompt that doesn't appear, their AX control won't run
and you get a bitch message from them saying to lower the security level
of your Internet security zone. In other words, you have to reduce
security to use their security product. It is amazing that no one at
McAfee knows how to code HTAs (HTML Applications) which provide for
executing local web applications but under the My Computer security zone,
including any objects called within the HTA, like AX controls. There is a
registry hack where you can define the "mcp://" protocol that appears
unique for use by McAfee which is a workaround but I only tested it for
about a week.

- Automatic updates won't work unless you login once to their web site AND
you save their cookie. I don't save cookies except for whitelisted
domains, and I don't whitelist McAfee's domain. Any product that updates
itself shouldn't need a cookie because it is not a secure method of
authenticating a user (i.e., to validate that they have an account) and it
is suspectible to deletion due to cleanup on the user's host. There is no
point in securing the updates, anyway, since they are of no value except
to users of their products.

So unless you want to degrade your Internet security zone (to its Medium
setting) and unless you keep their cookie, their windows to their
interface won't work and you won't get automatic updates. The workarounds
would be to define the mcp:// protocol that McAfee uses to run their local
web applications and to keep their cookie around. I like their core
product but their UI implementation sucks (well, for me, I refuse to lower
security to use their product). Symantec had problems running local web
apps, too, but I believe those disappeared about version 2002.

Just be sure how much bloat you want to install. Use the custom install
to select just the AV product if that is all you want, and then configure
NAV to only enable what features you want. You'll probably want to
disable e-mail scanning, but that is not just a problem with NAV but with
all AV products (NAV, at least, for inbound mails, has an option to send a
bogus X-header to the e-mail client to try to keep it from timing out).
You only mention Norton Antivirus and McAfee VirusScan but often users are
actually asking about the entire suite, much of which is fluff. I wasn't
impressed with, for example, Norton Anti-Spam, and instead use SpamPal
which is free but, hey, something is better than nothing unless you are
one of the lucky few that never get spammed.

You never mentioned WHICH component of each suite for which you wanted
information. As for their firewalls, I found Norton's firewall to give me
better control and information. However, Sygate's Personal Firewall Pro
is better than Norton. Alas, Symantec bought Sygate and then promptly
discarded the firewall to deliberately eliminate a competitor. Although I
use the Pro version, the non-Pro version (which doesn't require a product
key) can still be found for download, and I like it better than Norton's
firewall (which I like better than McAfee's which is mostly a fluff
interface and you can't even watch the traffic as it occurs to see the
connections). Sygate provides IDS (intrusion detection system) even in
the non-Pro free version but since Symantec killed the product means those
signatures don't get updated. To supplant that loss of IDS in the Sygate
firewall (Pro or non-Pro), I use Prevx1 R ("research" version is free).
You could even use Prevx1 by itself as it detects viruses, spyware,
trojans, and other malware but it cooperates with anti-virus and firewall
products. I don't like the minimal firewall-like application rules in
Prevx1 (which only apply against unknown apps) so I still use a 3rd party
firewall. Prevx is planning to add a firewall later. However, Prevx
isn't for the boob because it will popup prompts asking you what to allow,
so you'll have to understand the prompt (and answering Yes or Allow to
every prompt defeats the security so you might as not bother with that
product).

Few anti-virus and firewall products actually protect themselves from
getting killed or suspended by malware (if it manages to get under your
radar and still run on your host). Sygate's firewall (Pro and freebie)
tries some to protect itself but isn't kill-proof. Prevx should help to
discover any malware that runs and pend any action it attempts awaiting
your response to Allow or Block (so it comes back to you to understand the
prompt). ProcessGuard regulates what can load into memory and what
actions it can commit on other processes. The freebie version should be
good enough but it doesn't block every possible method of killing a
process, especially if there is a UI for the process. However, like
Prevx, you will be innundated with prompts at first asking if you want to
allow a program to run (but it does have a Learn mode but which should be
used after you have thoroughly confirmed your host is clean). I still use
Prevx1 but ProcessGuard was becoming just too much hassle for me, and I
consider having a firewall, IDS, and anti-virus programs as sufficient and
ProcessGuard a bit overkill.

So while you are considering a choice between McAfee and Norton, you might
want to look into freebie alternatives of which I'd recommend finding a
download of Sygate's personal firewall
(http://www.simtel.com/product.download.mirrors.php?id=53687) and CA's
EzAntivirus (http://www.my-etrust.com/microsoft). Then consider if you
want to add Prevx1 and/or ProcessGuard to the mix. And the cost? Zero!

I will only need the anti virus and firewall. As my email with BTInternet
works well with spam - as around 200 a day goes straight to the bulk folder
and at least 1 a week comes into my inbox. I will try those links you gave,
thanks
 
Craig Davies - 10.02.2006 09:57 :
I will only need the anti virus and firewall. As my email with BTInternet
works well with spam - as around 200 a day goes straight to the bulk folder
and at least 1 a week comes into my inbox. I will try those links you gave,
thanks

*NO* need fullquoting ~ 150 quotinlines (snipped) again. GRRR.

Please learn to quote. THX in advance.
 
Defino not good for my PC then as I run Win 98 and 64MB memory

I run mostly Win98SE systems and I have NOD32 or F-Prot on all of them.
Both programs work great. I use NOD32 for the systems that I go online
with.

Chas.
 
Hello Craig,

Norton Internet Security by all means!
Personally, I use BitDefender 9 Professional plus, bat I used Norton products
before and was very satisfied.

CD> Which is the better option out of the two:
CD> Norton Internet Security 2006
CD> Mcafee 8 Internet Security Suite 2006
CD> In terms of its user-friendly useage? Any problems you have
CD> experienced with either them etc Also if you have both which did you
CD> prefer and why
CD>
CD> I want to get one and i aint sure which one.
CD>
GALAracunala
http://free-st.t-com.hr/GALAracunala/
 
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