Maxtor Firball 3 40GB

  • Thread starter Thread starter Stewart Ferguson
  • Start date Start date
S

Stewart Ferguson

First post here...

My brother-in-law gave me a spare 40GB Maxtor Fireball 3. I was to install
it on my daughters computer. Unfortunately while he was formatting it he
accidentally switched the computer off at the mains. The drive is no longer
detected by the BIOS. I have downloaded software from Maxtor with no
success. I have tried it as a master and a slave on my computer. No success.

Any other suggestions...

Thanks in advance,

Stewart
 
Stewart said:
First post here...

My brother-in-law gave me a spare 40GB Maxtor Fireball 3. I was to install
it on my daughters computer. Unfortunately while he was formatting it he
accidentally switched the computer off at the mains. The drive is no
longer detected by the BIOS. I have downloaded software from Maxtor with
no success. I have tried it as a master and a slave on my computer. No
success.

Any other suggestions...

Thanks in advance,

Stewart
Click to expand...

I didn't know cutting power during format can cause this. And it seems
rather strange too, because all a format does is blanking data and creating
a file system. I got a feeling that your problem is caused by something
else.

If it did cause your problem, the only sollution I can think of, is doing a
low level format, but that is kind of dangerous. And I don't know if that
works when the BIOS doesn't detect it. I think so, because I believe a low
level format is what makes the sectors, cylinders and so forth, which the
bios detects, but I'm not sure.

Use it only as a last resort. Tools should be available from several
hard-disk manufacturers. Maxtors provides one I believe.
 
I didn't know cutting power during format can cause this. And it seems
rather strange too, because all a format does is blanking data and creating
a file system. I got a feeling that your problem is caused by something
else.

If it did cause your problem, the only sollution I can think of, is doing a
low level format, but that is kind of dangerous. And I don't know if that
works when the BIOS doesn't detect it. I think so, because I believe a low
level format is what makes the sectors, cylinders and so forth, which the
bios detects, but I'm not sure.

Use it only as a last resort. Tools should be available from several
hard-disk manufacturers. Maxtors provides one I believe.
Click to expand...

You are about 10 years in the past with the low level format. What is
sometimes referred to as a low level format is not your dad's LLF as the old
comercial said. The LLF where the sec,cyl and tracks are formed is done at
at the factory and can not normally be changed by any software that is out.
The old MFM type drives were the ones that you really did a LLF on your
computer.

If the bios can not see somekind of drive it is doubtful you can do anything
with it. He may try getting a program from Maxtor off the intertnet and see
if it will let him do anything. At this point there is nothing to loose.
 
Ralph said:
You are about 10 years in the past with the low level format. What is
sometimes referred to as a low level format is not your dad's LLF as the
old
comercial said. The LLF where the sec,cyl and tracks are formed is done
at at the factory and can not normally be changed by any software that is
out. The old MFM type drives were the ones that you really did a LLF on
your computer.
Click to expand...

I know of someone who was able to low-level format a 20 gb (or so) drive
with a Maxtor tool. I'm not sure about the 20 gb, but it wasn't a 10 year
old drive. I know that low-level format is done at the factory, but I
believe you can do it yourself with tools as well.
 
Halfgaar said:
I know of someone who was able to low-level format a 20 gb (or so) drive
with a Maxtor tool. I'm not sure about the 20 gb, but it wasn't a 10 year
old drive. I know that low-level format is done at the factory, but I
believe you can do it yourself with tools as well.
Click to expand...

Ralph is correct about this. The "low level format" programs available
from most drive maker's web sites are really "zero write" programs. They
may be useful in some cases, but are not a real low level format which
can only be done at the creation of the disk's original configuration.

The old drives used a stepper motor, and a true low level format was
available, often originated with debug. This re-wrote the sector IDs
and tracks to correspond with the position the heads were placed in by the
stepper actuator. This changed with wear, so a low level format was
often needed. Modern drives use "voice coil" actuators, and the
head position is controlled by a servo track on the platter(s).

With the number of tracks per inch now in use, (Your Seagate 120GB drive has
94,600 tracks per inch.), a stepper head positioning mechanism would not
be possible.

Virg Wall
--

Any sufficiently advanced technology
is indistinguishable from magic.

Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law
 
V said:
Ralph is correct about this. The "low level format" programs available
from most drive maker's web sites are really "zero write" programs. They
may be useful in some cases, but are not a real low level format which
can only be done at the creation of the disk's original configuration.

The old drives used a stepper motor, and a true low level format was
available, often originated with debug. This re-wrote the sector IDs
and tracks to correspond with the position the heads were placed in by the
stepper actuator. This changed with wear, so a low level format was
often needed. Modern drives use "voice coil" actuators, and the
head position is controlled by a servo track on the platter(s).

With the number of tracks per inch now in use, (Your Seagate 120GB drive
has 94,600 tracks per inch.), a stepper head positioning mechanism would
not be possible.
Click to expand...

Cool stuff, I didn't know that.

BTW, do you also know how these voice coil actuators are able to position
the heads so precisely?
 
Halfgaar said:
V W Wall wrote:
.... snip ...

Cool stuff, I didn't know that.

BTW, do you also know how these voice coil actuators are able
to position the heads so precisely?
Click to expand...

They servo to patterns pre-written on the drive, either a separate
surface or between sectors. Thus a 2 platter drive may have 4
surfaces, one for servo, and three for data. This is why they
can't be re-initialized without precise hardware.
 
Halfgaar said:
Cool stuff, I didn't know that.

BTW, do you also know how these voice coil actuators are able to position
the heads so precisely?
Click to expand...

There are servo tracks written to the platter(s) which define the position of
the actual data tracks. These were at one time placed on a dedicated platter,
but I believe they are now "embedded" in the actual data tracks. These expand
and contract with the data tracks, and so can accurately control the head(s)
position.

Modern drives also use zones in which the actual sectors/track vary. This
way the outside tracks can contain more sectors than the inner ones, thus
maintaining a more constant bits/inch density. That's another reason why
you cannot do a real low level format, since these zones are selected at
the drive's manufacture.

These are some of the reasons drive capacity has been limited by BIOSs
and operating systems. There is no longer any relation between CHS
(cylinder, head, sector) and the position of real sectors on the drive.
Until recently the BIOS limited the LBA, (logical block access), to a
28 bit number. This limited the drive size to 2^28 times the bits/sector,
or 268435456 times 512 or about 137GB (128GiB). Newer BIOSs can address
LBA with a 48 bit number.

Virg Wall
--

Any sufficiently advanced technology
is indistinguishable from magic.

Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law
 
I know of someone who was able to low-level format a 20 gb (or so) drive
with a Maxtor tool. I'm not sure about the 20 gb, but it wasn't a 10 year
old drive. I know that low-level format is done at the factory, but I
believe you can do it yourself with tools as well.
Click to expand...

Yer wrong!


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
First post here...

My brother-in-law gave me a spare 40GB Maxtor Fireball 3. I was to install
it on my daughters computer. Unfortunately while he was formatting it he
accidentally switched the computer off at the mains.
Click to expand...

Formatting on HIS machine?...or on your machine?
The drive is no longer
detected by the BIOS.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you have that controller enabled in the BIOS?
I have downloaded software from Maxtor with no
success. I have tried it as a master and a slave on my computer. No success.
Click to expand...

Both of these configurations would require another drive attached to
the same cable. Did you have another drive attached to this same
cable?

....although on some Maxtor drives, 'single' drive and 'master' drive
are the same jumper setting. Double check your jumpers per the
schematic that should be on top of the drive.
Any other suggestions...
Click to expand...

Can you feel the drive spinning? If so, you may simply have a bad IDE
cable...or have it installed improperly. Although possible, having a
drive go bad during a power outage on a defrag would be a rare
occurrence.

I feel you have a different problem.

Good luck.

P.S. If the drive is truly bad, it may still be under warranty.
Check Maxtor's site.


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
I know of someone who was able to low-level format a 20 gb (or so) drive
with a Maxtor tool. I'm not sure about the 20 gb, but it wasn't a 10 year
old drive. I know that low-level format is done at the factory, but I
believe you can do it yourself with tools as well.
Click to expand...
The so called LLF was not really a low level format that writes the sector
and cylinder information to the drive. This has not been done with any of
the IDE drives. The older computers ( maybe the 486 motherboards were the
last ?) had a LLF in the bios. It would seem to run on some IDE drives but
did nothing. I don't recall the exect size, but anything normally seen
that was around 100 MB or over would fall in the IDE catagory and would not
do a true LLF. I doubt a drive that could be LLF has been made in 10 years
or more. I think it was 92 or 93 that I got a 386 computer and it had an IDE
drive in it. It had a LLF in the Bios but when ran on the IDE drive it
seemed to run but did not do anything.
 
The so called LLF was not really a low level format that writes the sector
and cylinder information to the drive. This has not been done with any of
the IDE drives.
Click to expand...

It could be done with IDE drives, Ralph...I did many of them. It
could not be done with EIDE drives, however.
The older computers ( maybe the 486 motherboards were the
last ?) had a LLF in the bios.
Click to expand...

Not very many of them. At any rate, the LLF was simply driven by a
software program...which was available from various sources.
Sometimes, this software WAS included as part of the BIOS...similar to
the different ways you can activate S.M.A.R.T.
It would seem to run on some IDE drives but
did nothing.
Click to expand...

It would bring up the error table for the drive...and let you append,
delete, or otherwise edit.
I don't recall the exect size, but anything normally seen
that was around 100 MB or over would fall in the IDE catagory and would not
do a true LLF. I doubt a drive that could be LLF has been made in 10 years
or more. I think it was 92 or 93 that I got a 386 computer and it had an IDE
drive in it.
Click to expand...

Yer probably correct. Right about then is when the EIDE drives hit
the market.
It had a LLF in the Bios but when ran on the IDE drive it
seemed to run but did not do anything.
Click to expand...

If it didn't bring up the current table...and give you options to
modify the table...it was probably just a zero-fill routine.


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
Both of these configurations would require another drive attached to
the same cable. Did you have another drive attached to this same
cable?

...although on some Maxtor drives, 'single' drive and 'master' drive
are the same jumper setting. Double check your jumpers per the
schematic that should be on top of the drive.
Click to expand...

Only western digital drives have a seperate 'single' setting. All other
drives have to be set to master when single.
 
Only western digital drives have a seperate 'single' setting. All other
drives have to be set to master when single.
Click to expand...

Sorry...yer wrong again!

And even the WD's don't always have a separate 'single' setting.


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
Trent© said:
Sorry...yer wrong again!

And even the WD's don't always have a separate 'single' setting.
Click to expand...

Well, in anycase, topicstarter can just look at the text on the cover of the
drive to see if it has a single setting.
 
Well, in anycase, topicstarter can just look at the text on the cover of the
drive to see if it has a single setting.
Click to expand...

Correct.


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
What am I looking for???


Halfgaar said:
Well, in anycase, topicstarter can just look at the text on the cover of the
drive to see if it has a single setting.
Click to expand...
 
Stewart said:
What am I looking for???
Click to expand...

You can see if the drive has a "single" jumper setting. Drives can be set to
master or slave and sometimes single. You have to set it correctly.

BTW. The power failed during format. When that happened, the drive was no
longer detectable by the same computer? You just rebooted and when you
entered the BIOS the drive was no longer detectable?

Halfgaar
 
Halfgaar said:
You can see if the drive has a "single" jumper setting. Drives can be set to
master or slave and sometimes single. You have to set it correctly.
Click to expand...

It was set as master. I have also tried it as a slave on my own computer.
Nothing. I do not think it is even spinning. I think it is dead.
BTW. The power failed during format. When that happened, the drive was no
longer detectable by the same computer? You just rebooted and when you
entered the BIOS the drive was no longer detectable?
Click to expand...

The drive was not detected on the same computer after rebooting. I tried
setting it manually with settings from the Maxtor site. Nothing.

Looks like its for the bin.
 
It's been suggested to me that perhaps when the power failed, a power surge
might have gone through the drive. Is the power supply a quality one, or a
cheap one?

But if it's not even spinning, I would fiddle around with the powerplug and
if that doesn't help, I think it's indeed for the bin.

Halfgaar
 
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