making a website in design view which passes the Html validator te

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Guest

Is it possible to make a website in design view, which could pass the HTML
validator test.
 
But how likely is it, given (say) a FrontPage user who doesn't know HTML or
CSS? I wouldn't want to bet on it..

--
Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--



"Murray" <forums@HAH
Agreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
 
My humble 2 cents worth: as a novice in Design View, I tend to try things &
change them, leaving lots of code like empty tags where I don't select
carefully when I delete. I have to clean up after myself. The Reveal Tags
View helps somewhat. Just a word of caution to fellow newbies.
 
In any web autholring software, in "design view" without knowing HTML/CSS,
not likely. :-)
 
Open <insert your favorite software name>.
In "design view" enter 4 paragraphs of meaningful and relevant text.
Style the text as desired.

Submit to validators. Bada bing bada boom. Valid pages.
 
Hi Murray.

This page was made with FrontPage 2003 and though it is just a sample (Form)
type page it validated with no problems....

| Open <insert your favorite software name>.
| In "design view" enter 4 paragraphs of meaningful and relevant text.
| Style the text as desired.
|
| Submit to validators. Bada bing bada boom. Valid pages.
|
| --
| Murray
| --------------
| MVP FrontPage
|
|
| | > In any web autholring software, in "design view" without knowing
HTML/CSS,
| > not likely. :-)
| >
| >
| > --
| > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
| > --
| >
| > | >>I would say it's unlikely, really.
| >>
| >> --
| >> Murray
| >> --------------
| >> MVP FrontPage
| >>
| >>
| >> | >>> But how likely is it, given (say) a FrontPage user who doesn't know
HTML
| >>> or CSS? I wouldn't want to bet on it..
| >>>
| >>> --
| >>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| >>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| >>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
| >>> --
| >>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>> "Murray" <forums@HAH
| >>> Agreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
| >>> | >>>> Yes.
| >>>>
| >>>> --
| >>>> Murray
| >>>> --------------
| >>>> MVP FrontPage
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> | >>>>> Is it possible to make a website in design view, which could pass
the
| >>>>> HTML
| >>>>> validator test.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> --
| >>>>> Vanilla
| >>>>> Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >>>>> http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >>>>> Back it up!
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
 
Hi Murray. I'll try that again...

This page was made with FrontPage 2003 and though it is just a sample (Form)
type of page it validated with no problems....
Contains active buttons, Layers, and form fields...

http://www.xmas-i-am.com/form.htm

bob
| Open <insert your favorite software name>.
| In "design view" enter 4 paragraphs of meaningful and relevant text.
| Style the text as desired.
|
| Submit to validators. Bada bing bada boom. Valid pages.
|
| --
| Murray
| --------------
| MVP FrontPage
|
|
| | > In any web autholring software, in "design view" without knowing
HTML/CSS,
| > not likely. :-)
| >
| >
| > --
| > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
| > --
| >
| > | >>I would say it's unlikely, really.
| >>
| >> --
| >> Murray
| >> --------------
| >> MVP FrontPage
| >>
| >>
| >> | >>> But how likely is it, given (say) a FrontPage user who doesn't know
HTML
| >>> or CSS? I wouldn't want to bet on it..
| >>>
| >>> --
| >>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| >>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| >>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
| >>> --
| >>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>> "Murray" <forums@HAH
| >>> Agreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
| >>> | >>>> Yes.
| >>>>
| >>>> --
| >>>> Murray
| >>>> --------------
| >>>> MVP FrontPage
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> | >>>>> Is it possible to make a website in design view, which could pass
the
| >>>>> HTML
| >>>>> validator test.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> --
| >>>>> Vanilla
| >>>>> Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >>>>> http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >>>>> Back it up!
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
 
Sure. Actually, I was being a little facetious in my comment.

Where you start to get into validation problems is when you use Word Art, or
other FP-specific effects like that.
 
Too True - too true.......

KISS is the best idea...

bob
| Sure. Actually, I was being a little facetious in my comment.
|
| Where you start to get into validation problems is when you use Word Art,
or
| other FP-specific effects like that.
|
| --
| Murray
| --------------
| MVP FrontPage
|
|
| | > Hi Murray. I'll try that again...
| >
| > This page was made with FrontPage 2003 and though it is just a sample
| > (Form)
| > type of page it validated with no problems....
| > Contains active buttons, Layers, and form fields...
| >
| > http://www.xmas-i-am.com/form.htm
| >
| > bob
| > | > | Open <insert your favorite software name>.
| > | In "design view" enter 4 paragraphs of meaningful and relevant text.
| > | Style the text as desired.
| > |
| > | Submit to validators. Bada bing bada boom. Valid pages.
| > |
| > | --
| > | Murray
| > | --------------
| > | MVP FrontPage
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > In any web autholring software, in "design view" without knowing
| > HTML/CSS,
| > | > not likely. :-)
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| > | > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| > | > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > | > | >>I would say it's unlikely, really.
| > | >>
| > | >> --
| > | >> Murray
| > | >> --------------
| > | >> MVP FrontPage
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> | > | >>> But how likely is it, given (say) a FrontPage user who doesn't
know
| > HTML
| > | >>> or CSS? I wouldn't want to bet on it..
| > | >>>
| > | >>> --
| > | >>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| > | >>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| > | >>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
| > | >>> --
| > | >>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>> "Murray" <forums@HAH
| > | >>> Agreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
| > | >>> | > | >>>> Yes.
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>> --
| > | >>>> Murray
| > | >>>> --------------
| > | >>>> MVP FrontPage
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>> | > | >>>>> Is it possible to make a website in design view, which could
pass
| > the
| > | >>>>> HTML
| > | >>>>> validator test.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> --
| > | >>>>> Vanilla
| > | >>>>> Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| > | >>>>> http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| > | >>>>> Back it up!
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
I thank everybody for their opinion.
From my question I missed an important part, it should’ve been: Is it
possible to make a website in design view (WITHOUT THE FIRM KNOWLEDGE OF
HTML), which could pass the HTML validator test.
I guess I’m asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on just the design
view?

The problem Mir referring is one of my problems as well; also sometimes even
the simplest task, like creating a table could be a problem in design view,
as it looks different in preview than it does in design view.

--
Vanilla
Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
http://www.searchenginelocator.com
Back it up!
 
It's very simple to answer that one.
I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on just the
design
view?
Click to expand...

No. Exclusive use of design view will find you in holes from time to time
that you simply cannot get out of from design view.
 
Anything you could recommend as a solution? What should I be aware of? What
is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
I appriciate your help.
--
Vanilla
Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
http://www.searchenginelocator.com
Back it up!
 
Anything you could recommend as a solution?

The only solution would be to learn some HTML.
What is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
Click to expand...

Improperly nested tags is one thing you cannot undo in Design view (well,
short of deleting everything and re-entering it). I'll try to come up with
some better examples for you, though.
 
Another thing that will not validate is the use of "webbots"
Like the grey text that starts with:
<!--webbot bot="Navigation" s-o

This is used for the Auto Navigation, include pages, and shared boarders I
think...

BUT -- This doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the page!
It just means that W3C.org does not recognize it. (Or approve it's use?)

I think the error you get is "Nobr" (could be wrong here)

That is why a little knowledge of HTML coding is not a bad thing.

bob
|> Anything you could recommend as a solution?
|
| The only solution would be to learn some HTML.
|
| > What is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
|
| Improperly nested tags is one thing you cannot undo in Design view (well,
| short of deleting everything and re-entering it). I'll try to come up
with
| some better examples for you, though.
|
| --
| Murray
| --------------
| MVP FrontPage
|
|
| | > Anything you could recommend as a solution? What should I be aware of?
| > What
| > is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
| > I appriciate your help.
| > --
| > Vanilla
| > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| > Back it up!
| >
| > "Murray" wrote:
| >
| >> It's very simple to answer that one.
| >>
| >> > I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on just the
| >> > design
| >> > view?
| >>
| >> No. Exclusive use of design view will find you in holes from time to
| >> time
| >> that you simply cannot get out of from design view.
| >>
| >> --
| >> Murray
| >> --------------
| >> MVP FrontPage
| >>
| >>
| >> | >> >I thank everybody for their opinion.
| >> > From my question I missed an important part, it should've been: Is it
| >> > possible to make a website in design view (WITHOUT THE FIRM KNOWLEDGE
| >> > OF
| >> > HTML), which could pass the HTML validator test.
| >> > I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on just the
| >> > design
| >> > view?
| >> >
| >> > The problem Mir referring is one of my problems as well; also
sometimes
| >> > even
| >> > the simplest task, like creating a table could be a problem in design
| >> > view,
| >> > as it looks different in preview than it does in design view.
| >> >
| >> > --
| >> > Vanilla
| >> > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >> > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >> > Back it up!
| >> >
| >> >
| >> > "Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]" wrote:
| >> >
| >> >> Absolutely.
| >> >>
| >> >> --
| >> >>
| >> >> ~ Kathleen Anderson
| >> >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| >> >> Spider Web Woman Designs
| >> >> web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
| >> >> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >> | >> >> > Is it possible to make a website in design view, which could pass
| >> >> > the
| >> >> > HTML
| >> >> > validator test.
| >> >> >
| >> >> > --
| >> >> > Vanilla
| >> >> > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >> >> > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >> >> > Back it up!
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
|
|
 
Anything within comments will validate just fine. It is ignored by the
validators.

--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage


Bob said:
Another thing that will not validate is the use of "webbots"
Like the grey text that starts with:
<!--webbot bot="Navigation" s-o

This is used for the Auto Navigation, include pages, and shared boarders I
think...

BUT -- This doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the page!
It just means that W3C.org does not recognize it. (Or approve it's use?)

I think the error you get is "Nobr" (could be wrong here)

That is why a little knowledge of HTML coding is not a bad thing.

bob
|> Anything you could recommend as a solution?
|
| The only solution would be to learn some HTML.
|
| > What is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
|
| Improperly nested tags is one thing you cannot undo in Design view
(well,
| short of deleting everything and re-entering it). I'll try to come up
with
| some better examples for you, though.
|
| --
| Murray
| --------------
| MVP FrontPage
|
|
| | > Anything you could recommend as a solution? What should I be aware
of?
| > What
| > is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
| > I appriciate your help.
| > --
| > Vanilla
| > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| > Back it up!
| >
| > "Murray" wrote:
| >
| >> It's very simple to answer that one.
| >>
| >> > I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on just
the
| >> > design
| >> > view?
| >>
| >> No. Exclusive use of design view will find you in holes from time to
| >> time
| >> that you simply cannot get out of from design view.
| >>
| >> --
| >> Murray
| >> --------------
| >> MVP FrontPage
| >>
| >>
| >> | >> >I thank everybody for their opinion.
| >> > From my question I missed an important part, it should've been: Is
it
| >> > possible to make a website in design view (WITHOUT THE FIRM
KNOWLEDGE
| >> > OF
| >> > HTML), which could pass the HTML validator test.
| >> > I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on just
the
| >> > design
| >> > view?
| >> >
| >> > The problem Mir referring is one of my problems as well; also
sometimes
| >> > even
| >> > the simplest task, like creating a table could be a problem in
design
| >> > view,
| >> > as it looks different in preview than it does in design view.
| >> >
| >> > --
| >> > Vanilla
| >> > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >> > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >> > Back it up!
| >> >
| >> >
| >> > "Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]" wrote:
| >> >
| >> >> Absolutely.
| >> >>
| >> >> --
| >> >>
| >> >> ~ Kathleen Anderson
| >> >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| >> >> Spider Web Woman Designs
| >> >> web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
| >> >> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >> | >> >> > Is it possible to make a website in design view, which could
pass
| >> >> > the
| >> >> > HTML
| >> >> > validator test.
| >> >> >
| >> >> > --
| >> >> > Vanilla
| >> >> > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >> >> > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >> >> > Back it up!
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
|
|
Click to expand...
 
But FrontPage navigation components (in text formats) will never
validate under any doctype (except, perhaps, a doctype for HTML1 if
such exists). In FrontPage code view these show as a simple comment.
As Bob said, the text navigation components contain <nobr> tags, which
were illegal (not deprecated) even in HTML3.2. Using a theme and
image rendition of the navigation brings its own problems with
validation elsewhere in the page, though the navigation itself will
pass.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/

Murray said:
Anything within comments will validate just fine. It is ignored by
the validators.

--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage


Bob said:
Another thing that will not validate is the use of "webbots"
Like the grey text that starts with:
<!--webbot bot="Navigation" s-o

This is used for the Auto Navigation, include pages, and shared
boarders I
think...

BUT -- This doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the
page!
It just means that W3C.org does not recognize it. (Or approve it's
use?)

I think the error you get is "Nobr" (could be wrong here)

That is why a little knowledge of HTML coding is not a bad thing.

bob
|> Anything you could recommend as a solution?
|
| The only solution would be to learn some HTML.
|
| > What is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
|
| Improperly nested tags is one thing you cannot undo in Design
view (well,
| short of deleting everything and re-entering it). I'll try to
come up
with
| some better examples for you, though.
|
| --
| Murray
| --------------
| MVP FrontPage
|
|
| | > Anything you could recommend as a solution? What should I be
aware of?
| > What
| > is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
| > I appriciate your help.
| > --
| > Vanilla
| > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| > Back it up!
| >
| > "Murray" wrote:
| >
| >> It's very simple to answer that one.
| >>
| >> > I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on
just the
| >> > design
| >> > view?
| >>
| >> No. Exclusive use of design view will find you in holes from
time to
| >> time
| >> that you simply cannot get out of from design view.
| >>
| >> --
| >> Murray
| >> --------------
| >> MVP FrontPage
| >>
| >>
message
| >> | >> >I thank everybody for their opinion.
| >> > From my question I missed an important part, it should've
been: Is it
| >> > possible to make a website in design view (WITHOUT THE FIRM
KNOWLEDGE
| >> > OF
| >> > HTML), which could pass the HTML validator test.
| >> > I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on
just the
| >> > design
| >> > view?
| >> >
| >> > The problem Mir referring is one of my problems as well;
also
sometimes
| >> > even
| >> > the simplest task, like creating a table could be a problem
in design
| >> > view,
| >> > as it looks different in preview than it does in design
view.
| >> >
| >> > --
| >> > Vanilla
| >> > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >> > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >> > Back it up!
| >> >
| >> >
| >> > "Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]" wrote:
| >> >
| >> >> Absolutely.
| >> >>
| >> >> --
| >> >>
| >> >> ~ Kathleen Anderson
| >> >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| >> >> Spider Web Woman Designs
| >> >> web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
| >> >> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
message
| >> >> | >> >> > Is it possible to make a website in design view, which
could pass
| >> >> > the
| >> >> > HTML
| >> >> > validator test.
| >> >> >
| >> >> > --
| >> >> > Vanilla
| >> >> > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >> >> > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >> >> > Back it up!
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
|
|
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Yes - thanks. I wasn't thinking about the post-save modifications that FP
would make to the page.

--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage


Ronx said:
But FrontPage navigation components (in text formats) will never validate
under any doctype (except, perhaps, a doctype for HTML1 if such exists).
In FrontPage code view these show as a simple comment. As Bob said, the
text navigation components contain <nobr> tags, which were illegal (not
deprecated) even in HTML3.2. Using a theme and image rendition of the
navigation brings its own problems with validation elsewhere in the page,
though the navigation itself will pass.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/

Murray said:
Anything within comments will validate just fine. It is ignored by the
validators.

--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage


Bob said:
Another thing that will not validate is the use of "webbots"
Like the grey text that starts with:
<!--webbot bot="Navigation" s-o

This is used for the Auto Navigation, include pages, and shared boarders
I
think...

BUT -- This doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the page!
It just means that W3C.org does not recognize it. (Or approve it's
use?)

I think the error you get is "Nobr" (could be wrong here)

That is why a little knowledge of HTML coding is not a bad thing.

bob
|> Anything you could recommend as a solution?
|
| The only solution would be to learn some HTML.
|
| > What is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
|
| Improperly nested tags is one thing you cannot undo in Design view
(well,
| short of deleting everything and re-entering it). I'll try to come up
with
| some better examples for you, though.
|
| --
| Murray
| --------------
| MVP FrontPage
|
|
| | > Anything you could recommend as a solution? What should I be aware
of?
| > What
| > is that cannot be done or undone at all in design view?
| > I appriciate your help.
| > --
| > Vanilla
| > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| > Back it up!
| >
| > "Murray" wrote:
| >
| >> It's very simple to answer that one.
| >>
| >> > I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on just
the
| >> > design
| >> > view?
| >>
| >> No. Exclusive use of design view will find you in holes from time
to
| >> time
| >> that you simply cannot get out of from design view.
| >>
| >> --
| >> Murray
| >> --------------
| >> MVP FrontPage
| >>
| >>
| >> | >> >I thank everybody for their opinion.
| >> > From my question I missed an important part, it should've been:
Is it
| >> > possible to make a website in design view (WITHOUT THE FIRM
KNOWLEDGE
| >> > OF
| >> > HTML), which could pass the HTML validator test.
| >> > I guess I'm asking that: Creating a website, can we rely on just
the
| >> > design
| >> > view?
| >> >
| >> > The problem Mir referring is one of my problems as well; also
sometimes
| >> > even
| >> > the simplest task, like creating a table could be a problem in
design
| >> > view,
| >> > as it looks different in preview than it does in design view.
| >> >
| >> > --
| >> > Vanilla
| >> > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >> > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >> > Back it up!
| >> >
| >> >
| >> > "Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]" wrote:
| >> >
| >> >> Absolutely.
| >> >>
| >> >> --
| >> >>
| >> >> ~ Kathleen Anderson
| >> >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| >> >> Spider Web Woman Designs
| >> >> web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
| >> >> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >> | >> >> > Is it possible to make a website in design view, which could
pass
| >> >> > the
| >> >> > HTML
| >> >> > validator test.
| >> >> >
| >> >> > --
| >> >> > Vanilla
| >> >> > Using: MW 2003, Excell 2003, Publisher 2003, FP 2003,
| >> >> > http://www.searchenginelocator.com
| >> >> > Back it up!
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >> >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
|
|
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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