Looking for a good HP/Epson printer that is similar to Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX...

[ANTant]

This Sunday, I am going to buy a new printer from a local retail store
(Fry's Electronics, Costco, Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, Office
Depot, Staples, The Good Guys, etc.) in Los Angeles, CA area. I have
narrowed down to Hewlett Packard and Epson brands. I am still having a
hard time picking specific models to get for my requirements. From what
I read and heard, these two brands will do well.
Both http://www.salescircular.com/ca.shtml and
http://ads.myoc.com/onlineads/common/generic-search-handler.jsp?keywords=Frys
(Fry's ads) have a large selection of printers on sales, but I don't know
which ones are reasonable for my needs.

I am willing to spend up to $500 to get a good printer. Laser or Inkjet.

1. Small size to fit on my tiny desk (small room). The printer should be
small. I have an Epson STYLUS Color 880 and had a HP 560c Deskjet so that
should give you the sizes.

2. Ink catridges does not clog often especially when I only print a few
pages per week. I only power on the printer when I need it so most of the
times it is off and only on for a few minutes. The ink cartridges must
stay in good shape in 85+ degrees temperature (yes, my room gets this hot
during the heat waves). I never had this problem with dot matrix printers
and HP 560c DeskJet when I used them.

3. Easy to maintain and fix when there are problems. My old Epson Color
STYLUS 880 printer was annoying during warm up and took up to a minute to
clean ink (heads too?) and use a lot of ink after some times. Once in a
while, it likes to leave marks on papers during printing and paper feeds
so I have to clean them. It is very annoying! Also, it is difficult to do
intense movements (e.g., remove pieces in printer) due to my multiple
physical disabilities to clean the printer.

4. Color support for color photographs that will be done once in a while.
I would like to get support for various digital camera memory cards
without turning on the computer. They will be on glossy papers. I won't be
using the color inks/toner that much.

5. The printer must work in Windows 95 (original and OSR2), 98 (first and
second editions), PC parallel support for the old machines like my Compaq
1585 DMT P150 MMX notebook that still works and used. Basically, the
printer should support both USB (1.1) and parallel ports. I might use
Samba to share the printer later on over my mini-LAN.

6. I do not really need scanner, copy machine, and fax features. I don't
think it can be fitted into a small printer. Also, that adds to the price.

Thank you in advance for any advices.
--
"None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin
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[ray]

That price range could put you in the area of cheapie color laser
printers, but color lasers don't print on glossy paper - actually lasers
don't print on glossy paper. Never tried a semi-glossy. If you think you
might go that way, I'd ask for a demo on several types of paper first.

 

[Bill]

narrowed down to Hewlett Packard and Epson brands. I am still having a
hard time picking specific models to get for my requirements. From what
I read and heard, these two brands will do well.

I am willing to spend up to $500 to get a good printer. Laser or Inkjet.

Since you want to print glossy photos, forget about a colour laser.
Inkjet printers will give you realistic photo prints, but laser printers
will not.

And there are very few models that will fit your need for a parallel
port and Windows 95, since most printers have switched to USB. However,
some models have built-in networking via an ethernet port and since
you've expressed an interest in sharing the printer, the networking
feature makes it easy. If you opt for a model without ethernet, then
using a USB printer through the network is also relatively easy.

As for model recommendations, look at the HP Photosmart 8150 and 8450.
The 8450 model adds the ethernet networking and extra ink cartridge slot
over the 8150. Aside from that they're basically the same. I believe
these models will give you the best running costs since they use the
newer 96/97/99/100 Vivera ink cartridges. And the printheads are on the
ink cartridges so you never need to worry about the heads.

 

[Bob Headrick]

I am willing to spend up to $500 to get a good printer. Laser or Inkjet.

1. Small size to fit on my tiny desk (small room). The printer should be
small. I have an Epson STYLUS Color 880 and had a HP 560c Deskjet so that
should give you the sizes.

2. Ink catridges does not clog often especially when I only print a few
pages per week. I only power on the printer when I need it so most of the
times it is off and only on for a few minutes. The ink cartridges must
stay in good shape in 85+ degrees temperature (yes, my room gets this hot
during the heat waves). I never had this problem with dot matrix printers
and HP 560c DeskJet when I used them.

3. Easy to maintain and fix when there are problems. My old Epson Color
STYLUS 880 printer was annoying during warm up and took up to a minute to
clean ink (heads too?) and use a lot of ink after some times. Once in a
while, it likes to leave marks on papers during printing and paper feeds
so I have to clean them. It is very annoying! Also, it is difficult to do
intense movements (e.g., remove pieces in printer) due to my multiple
physical disabilities to clean the printer.

4. Color support for color photographs that will be done once in a while.
I would like to get support for various digital camera memory cards
without turning on the computer. They will be on glossy papers. I won't be
using the color inks/toner that much.

5. The printer must work in Windows 95 (original and OSR2), 98 (first and
second editions), PC parallel support for the old machines like my Compaq
1585 DMT P150 MMX notebook that still works and used. Basically, the
printer should support both USB (1.1) and parallel ports. I might use
Samba to share the printer later on over my mini-LAN.

6. I do not really need scanner, copy machine, and fax features. I don't
think it can be fitted into a small printer. Also, that adds to the price.

Number 5 is the tough spec here. Most printers these days do not have parallel
ports anymore. Without the parallel port support you cannot get Win 95
support. The DeskJet 5650 would meet your needs except it does not have photo
card slots. I do not believe any of the current HP Photosmart printers have
parallel port support.

The DeskJet 5650 has parallel and USB support, will print borderless photo's,
and has driver support for Windows 98 and later. Your Win 95 machine could use
a driver for an earlier DeskJet as the DeskJet 5650 supports PCL3.

See:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/18972-236251-236261-14438-f51-304441.html
for details of the DeskJet 5650.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[ANTant]

That price range could put you in the area of cheapie color laser
printers, but color lasers don't print on glossy paper - actually lasers
don't print on glossy paper. Never tried a semi-glossy. If you think you
might go that way, I'd ask for a demo on several types of paper first.

I never used a laser printer for color. What papers does it use then?
For example, greeting cards, letters, photographs, etc.?
--
"None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin
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[ANTant]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

Since you want to print glossy photos, forget about a colour laser.
Inkjet printers will give you realistic photo prints, but laser printers
will not.

Really? I always though laser printers were better for printing in
everything including photographs.

And there are very few models that will fit your need for a parallel
port and Windows 95, since most printers have switched to USB. However,
some models have built-in networking via an ethernet port and since
you've expressed an interest in sharing the printer, the networking
feature makes it easy. If you opt for a model without ethernet, then
using a USB printer through the network is also relatively easy.

So for the networking, do I just hook up the ethernet cable to printer and
to my old Netgear DS108 hub (8-ports; 100Mb)? Do these printers come
with Ethernet cables or do I have to get it separately? Hmm, I would need
a very long cable since my network stuff is on one side of the room, and
the printer is on the other side (ugh).

As for model recommendations, look at the HP Photosmart 8150 and 8450.
The 8450 model adds the ethernet networking and extra ink cartridge slot
over the 8150. Aside from that they're basically the same. I believe
these models will give you the best running costs since they use the
newer 96/97/99/100 Vivera ink cartridges. And the printheads are on the
ink cartridges so you never need to worry about the heads.

I got Wired's magazine and it said 8150 was a good one as well. However,
I am worried about Linux support. I cannot find find 8150 model, but I
did find 8100: http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-PhotoSmart_8100

Is this printer backward compatible back to 8100? The printer looks fancy!
I hope it's not hard to use.
--
"None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
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( )

 

[ANTant]

Number 5 is the tough spec here. Most printers these days do not have parallel
ports anymore. Without the parallel port support you cannot get Win 95
support. The DeskJet 5650 would meet your needs except it does not have photo
card slots. I do not believe any of the current HP Photosmart printers have
parallel port support.

The DeskJet 5650 has parallel and USB support, will print borderless photo's,
and has driver support for Windows 98 and later. Your Win 95 machine could use
a driver for an earlier DeskJet as the DeskJet 5650 supports PCL3.

See:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/18972-236251-236261-14438-f51-304441.html
for details of the DeskJet 5650.

It doesn't seem like any local retail stores have this model in stock. I
will probably end up with a PhotoSmart model and lose Windows 95 and
parallel support.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.
--
"None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
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( )

 

[Bob Headrick]

I got Wired's magazine and it said 8150 was a good one as well. However,
I am worried about Linux support. I cannot find find 8150 model, but I
did find 8100:
http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-PhotoSmart_8100

Is this printer backward compatible back to 8100? The printer looks fancy!
I hope it's not hard to use.

The Photosmart 8100 is really the Photosmart 8100 series, which includes the
8150. The Linux driver should work.

If you are willing to give up parallel connectivity I would recommend that you
also look at the All-in-one units. I know you were concerned about the cost
and size, but the HP Photosmart PSC 2610 might be a good choice. They have
about the same desk footprint as the Photosmart 8150 and have built-in network
ports as well as USB connectivity. The Linux driver for the Photosmart 8100
series should work for the PSC 2600 but I have not tried them. See the
following for info on the PSC 2610:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/18972-238444-410635-421635-f57-391114.html
While you said you do not need the scan, fax or copy capability it is a nice
addition to have. I personally have become rather spoiled having a personal
color copier .

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[ANTant]

The Photosmart 8100 is really the Photosmart 8100 series, which includes the
8150. The Linux driver should work.

If you are willing to give up parallel connectivity I would recommend that you
also look at the All-in-one units. I know you were concerned about the cost
and size, but the HP Photosmart PSC 2610 might be a good choice. They have
about the same desk footprint as the Photosmart 8150 and have built-in network
ports as well as USB connectivity. The Linux driver for the Photosmart 8100
series should work for the PSC 2600 but I have not tried them. See the
following for info on the PSC 2610:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/18972-238444-410635-421635-f57-391114.html
While you said you do not need the scan, fax or copy capability it is a nice
addition to have. I personally have become rather spoiled having a personal
color copier .

I think I am going to get either 8450 or 8150. Linuxprinting.org mentions
similiar stuff but for 8400. It looks like all local retail stores have
them. No sales that I see though according to Web sites.

PSC 2610 is really huge. I don't even have the space for that. Scanner
would had been nice. I already have an USR Sportster 33.6k Faxmodem for
faxes but I haven't used it for years.
--
"None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[ANTant]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

As for model recommendations, look at the HP Photosmart 8150 and 8450.
The 8450 model adds the ethernet networking and extra ink cartridge slot
over the 8150. Aside from that they're basically the same. I believe
these models will give you the best running costs since they use the
newer 96/97/99/100 Vivera ink cartridges. And the printheads are on the
ink cartridges so you never need to worry about the heads.

Question about ink cartridges since you seem to know these printers well.
Do the ink cartridges last a long time when using printer rarely (say a
few pages per week)? When I print a lot of documents in B&W, does the
printer only uses black ink (nothing from color cartridge)?

How's the powering on printer work? Is it ready to go? Basically, no warm
ups and cleaning like my old Epson printer? I remember my HP DeskJet 560c
doesn't do this. I am hoping the newer HP printers are still like this.

Thank you in advance again.
--
"None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[Fred McKenzie]

<< This Sunday, I am going to buy a new printer from a local retail store
(Fry's Electronics, Costco, Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, Office
Depot, Staples, The Good Guys, etc.) in Los Angeles, CA area. >>

Ant-

You are a bit hasty. Wait at least a couple more days to give us a chance to
respond!

You have a common situation, in that most of us don't print every day, and
inkjets tend to have clogged heads when left unused for long periods. Of
course some are better than others, even of the same brand and model. In
addition, we sometimes forget to turn off the printer before turning off the
power, which results in heads not being parked properly.

That leaves laser printers. Some do quite well with photos unless you require
glossy paper. Then they stink! In addition, the toner sticks to some plastics
such as PVC, just as Xerox copies will.

In other words, you are looking for the best compromise. I doubt you will find
any one printer that satisfies all requirements. Perhaps the best you can do
is find one that lets you print from several different memory card formats, and
has both USB and parallel ports.

Fred

 

[Lisa Horton]

2. Ink catridges does not clog often especially when I only print a few
pages per week. I only power on the printer when I need it so most of the
times it is off and only on for a few minutes. The ink cartridges must
stay in good shape in 85+ degrees temperature (yes, my room gets this hot
during the heat waves). I never had this problem with dot matrix printers
and HP 560c DeskJet when I used them.

3. Easy to maintain and fix when there are problems. My old Epson Color
STYLUS 880 printer was annoying during warm up and took up to a minute to
clean ink (heads too?) and use a lot of ink after some times. Once in a
while, it likes to leave marks on papers during printing and paper feeds
so I have to clean them. It is very annoying! Also, it is difficult to do
intense movements (e.g., remove pieces in printer) due to my multiple
physical disabilities to clean the printer.

These two requirements both point to HP. Epson print heads, being a
permanent part of the printer, tend to clog up after a period of non
use. If you get another Epson, you'll probably get the same long start
up time and the same cleaning cycle.

HP has the print head in the cartridge, so the print head is replaced
each time you fit a new cartridge. Problems with a clogged head? Just
replace the cartridge.

However, HP is the weakest of the big 3 in photo printing. If photos
are important, and you don't want to deal with the clogging issue, Canon
is the clear choice. Tied with and even beating Epson on photo print
quality, the Canon print heads are permanent, but are user replacable,
giving the photo printing enthusiast the best of both worlds. Canons
also tend to be quite fast, and very quiet. They also tend to have very
very little problem with clogged heads.

Lisa

 

[Bill]

Question about ink cartridges since you seem to know these printers well.
Do the ink cartridges last a long time when using printer rarely (say a
few pages per week)?

If you mean number of pages, yes. Even though the cartridges have less
ink in them compared to Canon, they have similar page yields. Rough
tests I've done here confirm the online tests I've read which show they
last a long time and cost per page is similar to Canon.

If you mean rare usage, my 6540 is only two weeks old so I can't comment
on it's ability to sit idle and still print fine. However, I've never
had a problem with HP printers in that regard. In fact, my old HP 520
printer sat in a closet for a year unused. Before I gave it to my
parents, I plugged it in and ran a test page - it printed perfectly. I
doubt Canon or Epson printers could do that.

When I print a lot of documents in B&W, does the
printer only uses black ink (nothing from color cartridge)?

You have a couple of options in this regard...you can just print a black
document and the printer will usually use the black ink. But from some
programs, it will read black text as composite and use the colour
cartridge. To overcome this issue, there is a setting in the printer
driver called "grayscale". If you enable it, you can set it to use the
black cartridge only.

The other option is to remove the colour cartridges and store them. The
printer will only use the black.

This last option is the most economical for ink usage as the printer
will use a little bit of black and colour when cleaning the printheads.

How's the powering on printer work? Is it ready to go?

You have to turn it on...there is no AUTO-ON with this printer, if
that's what you mean. Not that it's a big deal to lean over and tap the
Power button.

Basically, no warm
ups and cleaning like my old Epson printer? I remember my HP DeskJet 560c
doesn't do this. I am hoping the newer HP printers are still like this.

Yup, it's pretty quick.

When I turn it on, it takes a few seconds to check its systems and the
little panel lights flash. Then it opens the parking cradle, and then
feeds a sheet of paper. Mine doesn't do much of a cleaning prior to
printing or after...it's fairly fast at parking and unparking the heads.
It sounds like it's doing a very simple head cleaning when it parks the
heads...a lot faster than my old Canon printer. That's something I
disliked about the Canon printers...they go through a rigorous cleaning
cycle taking some 20-30 seconds before feeding a sheet. And of course it
wastes ink doing that.

Perhaps that's partly why the page yield on the Canon isn't as high as
it should be...it wastes a lot of ink in the cleaning cycles, and it
uses more ink in the printing process. If you think about it, the Canon
has three times as much colour ink (CMY) as this HP, but produces about
the same page yields.

 

[Bill]

Really? I always though laser printers were better for printing in
everything including photographs.

Lasers are excellent for black text. Colour lasers are generally
excellent for colour text and graphics, and they print decent photo
images on plain paper. However they can't use any kind of photo paper,
so the best you get is plain paper images.

If you want to print realistic photos, you need an inkjet printer.

So for the networking, do I just hook up the ethernet cable to printer and
to my old Netgear DS108 hub (8-ports; 100Mb)? Do these printers come
with Ethernet cables or do I have to get it separately? Hmm, I would need
a very long cable since my network stuff is on one side of the room, and
the printer is on the other side (ugh).

Yes, the 8480 printer is network ready...just plug it in and install the
network printer drivers. Cables are usually sold separately, and you can
run ethernet up to 100' without problems.

It also has a wireless interface, so you could get a wireless card and
not run a cable.

 

[Bill]

However, HP is the weakest of the big 3 in photo printing. If photos
are important, and you don't want to deal with the clogging issue, Canon
is the clear choice.

I can argue that point with first-hand experience.

I just bought an HP Deskjet 6540 and it produces slightly better four
colour photos than my Canon i850 did. Using six colours, it's quite a
bit better. Colour rendition, skin tones, are all better. Granted, we're
not talking night and day because the Canon had good output, but it is
better.

I should point out the Canon was using 2-year old technology compared to
the HP which is relatively new. But I've seen photo prints from the
newer Canon iP3000 and iP4000, and they don't fare any better...the HP
6540 beats them as well.

Canons
also tend to be quite fast, and very quiet.

My Canon was fast, but very noisy when feeding pages, even when set to
quiet mode. This new HP is much quieter feeding pages, and is only
slightly louder during printing - all I hear is carriage noise from the
heads zipping back and forth.

This HP is fast as well. First page printing is definitely quicker, and
subsequent pages are about as fast as the Canon.

They also tend to have very
very little problem with clogged heads.

While clogging wasn't much of an issue with my i850, the printhead
failed after only 4000+ pages. My friend's i550 printhead failed after
only 2500 pages.

Not very good for a printhead that is supposed to last "the life of the
printer". Unless the life expectancy is only a few thousand pages, in
which case a new printhead needs to be factored into the running costs.
But at $80 for a new one, it's not really worth it to buy a replacement
printhead.

I've also noticed we're stating to see an increasing rate of failures
with the Canon i-series in this group. A friend who works at a computer
shop told me he's starting to see more failures too. It's not an
alarming rate yet, but it's definitely not a good sign.

 

[ANTant]

Well, I just got back from CompUSA to get a HP PhotoSmart 8450. Now, I
need to find free time to play with it and that's not today. I noticed
this printer is much wider than my former printers. I hope I have room!
I was enjoying using the printer in the store with the samplers, tests,
and LCD menus.
--
"An ant is a wise creature for itself, but it is a shrewd thing in an orchard or garden." --Francis Bacon
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/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
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