Logitech mouse playing up?

[Robin Bignall]

I have a Logitech cordless laser mouse LX7 and keyboard LX710 combo.
Maybe 4 years old, and I'm extremely pleased with it.
But I notice, particularly when I'm using Agent to read newsgroups, that
a click on "Skip to next unread post" sometimes jumps a post.
Closer examination by pressing left-hand button, holding and releasing,
shows
-- most of time, skips when button released
-- some of time, skips when button pressed, again when button released.
I've looked at all possible mouse settings in Win 7 and Setpoint, but
can't find any that modify this behaviour.
Batteries are good.
It appears, sometimes, to generate two electronic 'clicks' for one
physical 'click'.
Anybody come across this before? Is the mouse screwed?

 

[Paul]

I have a Logitech cordless laser mouse LX7 and keyboard LX710 combo.
Maybe 4 years old, and I'm extremely pleased with it.
But I notice, particularly when I'm using Agent to read newsgroups, that
a click on "Skip to next unread post" sometimes jumps a post.
Closer examination by pressing left-hand button, holding and releasing,
shows
-- most of time, skips when button released
-- some of time, skips when button pressed, again when button released.
I've looked at all possible mouse settings in Win 7 and Setpoint, but
can't find any that modify this behaviour.
Batteries are good.
It appears, sometimes, to generate two electronic 'clicks' for one
physical 'click'.
Anybody come across this before? Is the mouse screwed?

I have a Logitech mouse with a similar problem.

If I click and drag with the mouse, the dragged item gets
dropped somewhere along the way. It appears the switch
contacts won't stay closed while the mouse is moving.
Either a cracked trace on the PCB of the mouse (from me
pressing on it), or dirt somewhere. I tried blowing out
the switch, and got about a day of trouble free operation,
before the problem came back. But because that required
taking the mouse apart, it could have been any other
trivial change to pressures or stresses that temporarily
fixed it.

I'd have to assume it was something like that.

When you do logic ICs to interface to switches, you're
supposed to "de-bounce" them. Switch contacts aren't
entirely clean, and multiple contacts can happen in a
few millisecond interval. There are various means to
check for that, such as chips that "scan" the switches,
and only declare a state change, after the switch enters
a new consistent state for three scan cycles in a row.

I'd have to assume the Logitech design takes care
of trivial debounce, meaning it removes multiple
contacts in the 2-3 millisecond interval. It means
some fault might exist there, which lasts for
100 milliseconds. Well outside the range that
debounce might be designed for. If you make debounce times
too long, it becomes a performance issue (like the idiotic
touch panel directory at the mall, which takes 3 seconds
for each input to register).

At some point, I will be changing the switch on the mouse.
When one of the mice is "dead enough", it will become
a part source for the mouse that still works (that's the mouse
I'm using currently). The working mouse is old enough, there
is a "worn spot" in the plastic on left-mouse, just to give
you some idea how long I've been using it. And that mouse
is still good. The defective mouse, doesn't have a wear mark yet.

Another possibility, is you spilled a beverage on the mouse
a few years ago, and it's catching up with you, even though
you rinsed the mouse.

Paul

 

[VanguardLH]

I have a Logitech cordless laser mouse LX7 and keyboard LX710 combo.
Maybe 4 years old, and I'm extremely pleased with it.
But I notice, particularly when I'm using Agent to read newsgroups, that
a click on "Skip to next unread post" sometimes jumps a post.
Closer examination by pressing left-hand button, holding and releasing,
shows
-- most of time, skips when button released
-- some of time, skips when button pressed, again when button released.
I've looked at all possible mouse settings in Win 7 and Setpoint, but
can't find any that modify this behaviour.
Batteries are good.
It appears, sometimes, to generate two electronic 'clicks' for one
physical 'click'.
Anybody come across this before? Is the mouse screwed?

My wired Logitech is also doing 2 clicks instead of 1. Just playing
Spider Solitaire exhibits the 2-click defect when occasionally clicking
on the reserve card pile results in dealing out 2 rows instead of 1.
It's either a fault of the switch inside the mouse or the shell getting
warped and too close to the switch (i.e., the mouse button's plastic
piece is pressing against the switch). Eventually I'll have to get a
new one. Replacing the switch is too expensive assuming I can even find
an exact match. Trying to bend back the plastic piece for the mouse
button often results in over-fatiguing the plastic hinge for it. Tis
easier just to buy a new one.

The mouse switch usually looks like one of the following:

http://img02.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i2/T1Umd5XlVqXXaXY3Yb_123907.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31G231CxAiL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

If the switch goes bad, it could have flaky contacts hence the multiple
shorts to close the circuit or it could get worn so a slight angular
pressure across the switch roller or pad creates a contact to short the
circuit. I've had a mouse where the switch was okay but the mouse's
shell got bent for the mouse button plastic pieces. These are just
cutouts in the plastic and use a thinner section as the hinge. If the
shell is warped from heat or abuse then it can push against the switch.
While the warped plastic may not itself be sufficient to press the
switch to close its contacts, it allows for bouncing of the switch
contacts when you are releasing the button. You are lifting off the
mouse button, the switch bounces up to release its contacts, but the
button plastic is warped and still pressing against the switch roller or
pad. You could try to bend up the mouse button's plastic but that
usually doesn't help because the plastic hinge section is damaged and
you'll soon end up with the mouse button again pressing against the
switch on the PCB.

 

[Robin Bignall]

I have a Logitech mouse with a similar problem.

If I click and drag with the mouse, the dragged item gets
dropped somewhere along the way. It appears the switch
contacts won't stay closed while the mouse is moving.
Either a cracked trace on the PCB of the mouse (from me
pressing on it), or dirt somewhere. I tried blowing out
the switch, and got about a day of trouble free operation,
before the problem came back. But because that required
taking the mouse apart, it could have been any other
trivial change to pressures or stresses that temporarily
fixed it.

I'd have to assume it was something like that.

When you do logic ICs to interface to switches, you're
supposed to "de-bounce" them. Switch contacts aren't
entirely clean, and multiple contacts can happen in a
few millisecond interval. There are various means to
check for that, such as chips that "scan" the switches,
and only declare a state change, after the switch enters
a new consistent state for three scan cycles in a row.

I'd have to assume the Logitech design takes care
of trivial debounce, meaning it removes multiple
contacts in the 2-3 millisecond interval. It means
some fault might exist there, which lasts for
100 milliseconds. Well outside the range that
debounce might be designed for. If you make debounce times
too long, it becomes a performance issue (like the idiotic
touch panel directory at the mall, which takes 3 seconds
for each input to register).

At some point, I will be changing the switch on the mouse.
When one of the mice is "dead enough", it will become
a part source for the mouse that still works (that's the mouse
I'm using currently). The working mouse is old enough, there
is a "worn spot" in the plastic on left-mouse, just to give
you some idea how long I've been using it. And that mouse
is still good. The defective mouse, doesn't have a wear mark yet.

Thanks for that, Paul. My mouse is unblemished and I don't see an easy
way (at a glance) to get it apart.

Another possibility, is you spilled a beverage on the mouse
a few years ago, and it's catching up with you, even though
you rinsed the mouse.

No, nothing like that ever happened.

I just spent some time looking at Logitech mouse/keyboard combos. They
don't make the one I've got anymore so I bought an MK520. They're not
too expensive if you look for offers.

 

[Robin Bignall]

My wired Logitech is also doing 2 clicks instead of 1. Just playing
Spider Solitaire exhibits the 2-click defect when occasionally clicking
on the reserve card pile results in dealing out 2 rows instead of 1.
It's either a fault of the switch inside the mouse or the shell getting
warped and too close to the switch (i.e., the mouse button's plastic
piece is pressing against the switch). Eventually I'll have to get a
new one. Replacing the switch is too expensive assuming I can even find
an exact match. Trying to bend back the plastic piece for the mouse
button often results in over-fatiguing the plastic hinge for it. Tis
easier just to buy a new one.

The mouse switch usually looks like one of the following:

http://img02.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i2/T1Umd5XlVqXXaXY3Yb_123907.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31G231CxAiL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

If the switch goes bad, it could have flaky contacts hence the multiple
shorts to close the circuit or it could get worn so a slight angular
pressure across the switch roller or pad creates a contact to short the
circuit. I've had a mouse where the switch was okay but the mouse's
shell got bent for the mouse button plastic pieces. These are just
cutouts in the plastic and use a thinner section as the hinge. If the
shell is warped from heat or abuse then it can push against the switch.
While the warped plastic may not itself be sufficient to press the
switch to close its contacts, it allows for bouncing of the switch
contacts when you are releasing the button. You are lifting off the
mouse button, the switch bounces up to release its contacts, but the
button plastic is warped and still pressing against the switch roller or
pad. You could try to bend up the mouse button's plastic but that
usually doesn't help because the plastic hinge section is damaged and
you'll soon end up with the mouse button again pressing against the
switch on the PCB.

Thanks for that. As I say, my mouse and keyboard look pretty untouched
as far as warping or bending are concerned. The keyboard has a nice
feel that my wife (who spent a lot of her working life typing on all
sorts of keyboards) thinks it's great. It's nearly 1 in the morning
here and the dog is snoring so I think I'd better leave further
investigation until daylight! But in any case I bought a replacement.

 

[Paul]

Thanks for that, Paul. My mouse is unblemished and I don't see an easy
way (at a glance) to get it apart.

No, nothing like that ever happened.

I just spent some time looking at Logitech mouse/keyboard combos. They
don't make the one I've got anymore so I bought an MK520. They're not
too expensive if you look for offers.

A favorite trick, is to hide one or more screws, under a sticker on
the bottom. On mine, the sticker has a cross cut in it, to make it
easy for a screwdriver to poke through it and get to the screw.

I've had gear with rubber feet, where the rubber feet pull out, and
there is a screw underneath.

The mouse shell and base, probably hinge on one end. So it's likely
to open on one end, and the rest should be obvious.

In this example, there are two screws. One near the top center
(next to the GS letters, and dead center). The other screw
is under the Logitech "eyeball" on the lower sticker. So both
stickers, you push a screwdriver through them, to disassemble the
mouse. None of the four feet need to be disturbed. The hinge on
the case is likely that part near the bottom.

http://torapo.com/mouse/parts/m-bq85_02.jpg

There are an extraordinary number of small parts
inside some of these. Making you wonder how they
can afford to have people put them together.
And a few of those items are little springs, where
it'll take you ten minutes to figure out the
correct orientation, if they come loose. You would
think a high volume item, wouldn't be built that way.

*******

If you've already got your replacement mouse, then
you can still take the old item apart, just to see
the quality inside. Some problems can be caused
purely by dust buildup (dust clump between button plastic
and the base, preventing the microswitch from getting
full travel). But if you remove all the dust, and
the problem continues, then you know it's a "wear" problem.
I've lost a few mice, because the plastic "bump" on the
underside of the mouse button, has been beaten flat and
no longer actuates the microswitch plunger fully.

*******

Sometimes, it's a broken wire, where the cable enters the casing.
You can undo the strain relief scheme, pull some fresh wire
inside, and re-terminate the cable. And that'll help fix a
broken wire. There usually isn't a lot of spare cable, so
a likely failing of this method, is it makes the remaining
cable too short.

Paul

 

[John Doe]

My wired Logitech is also doing 2 clicks instead of 1.

Some of Logitech's other mice are infamous for that. The left
mouse button starts double-clicking instead of single clicking.

 

[VanguardLH]

Thanks for that. As I say, my mouse and keyboard look pretty untouched
as far as warping or bending are concerned.

Plastic hinges (a thinner section of the plastic shell) will always wear
out (i.e., become less elastic and less springy). The "buttons" are
usually part of the plastic shell, not separate plastic pieces held up
by springs and guides. While there appears an edge to the buttons that
make them look separate, looking inside shows that is a false edge and
the "button" are just extensions of the mouse's shell. Sometimes you
find separate button pieces that are welded (the plastic rivet is
ultrasound fused) to the shell but you are still flexing a piece of
plastic as the hinge for the button.

If the problem is with the plastic button no longer flexing away from
the switch, you could try bending up the button piece. However, since
that plastic hinge is fatigued, that solution won't last long.

The keyboard has a nice
feel that my wife (who spent a lot of her working life typing on all
sorts of keyboards) thinks it's great. It's nearly 1 in the morning
here and the dog is snoring so I think I'd better leave further
investigation until daylight! But in any case I bought a replacement.

You could see if someplace is still selling the old mouse, like search
at:

www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=logitech+lx7&oq=logitech+lx7

Some of the Logitech's come with a "unifying" USB transceiver that is
supposed to work across a mix of their mice and keyboards. So maybe you
could keep the old keyboard and buy a newer Logitech cordless mouse
whose transceiver works with the old keyboard. They have a list of
their devices that work with their unifying transceiver at:

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/349/6126?pcid=6072

I don't see "LX" anywhere on that page so your keyboard is probably too
old (i.e., designed before they came out with the unifying transceiver).

All hardware wears out or become unusable (with newer hardware) so looks
like it is about time to research some replacements.

 

[Flasherly]

I have a Logitech cordless laser mouse LX7 and keyboard LX710 combo.
Maybe 4 years old, and I'm extremely pleased with it.
But I notice, particularly when I'm using Agent to read newsgroups, that
a click on "Skip to next unread post" sometimes jumps a post.
Closer examination by pressing left-hand button, holding and releasing,
shows
-- most of time, skips when button released
-- some of time, skips when button pressed, again when button released.
I've looked at all possible mouse settings in Win 7 and Setpoint, but
can't find any that modify this behaviour.
Batteries are good.
It appears, sometimes, to generate two electronic 'clicks' for one
physical 'click'.
Anybody come across this before? Is the mouse screwed?

My Logitech is 7, maybe 10, or even 12 or more years old.

Trackball and and second one (made with metal ball bearing
replacements for the trackball, whereas the first had plastic).

Went through one RF mouse/key combo, then another, although the first
works perfectly, the second however is a mini-keyboard with a horrible
flat sensor I thought I'd try to adapt;- I went back to the first for
a makeshift "side" mouse, and have to use both respective USB receiver
units.

Not impressed with their software these days, and for a working
keyboard, as opposed for entertainment off a coffee table, I'd as
likely find another brand -- not necessarily for a mouse, although
it's hard to imagine this trackball ever quitting.

 

[Pete]

My Logitech is 7, maybe 10, or even 12 or more years old.

Trackball and and second one (made with metal ball bearing
replacements for the trackball, whereas the first had plastic).

Went through one RF mouse/key combo, then another, although the first
works perfectly, the second however is a mini-keyboard with a horrible
flat sensor I thought I'd try to adapt;- I went back to the first for
a makeshift "side" mouse, and have to use both respective USB receiver
units.

Not impressed with their software these days, and for a working
keyboard, as opposed for entertainment off a coffee table, I'd as
likely find another brand -- not necessarily for a mouse, although
it's hard to imagine this trackball ever quitting.

I use a Logitech Darkfield mouse or my job which is using CAD all day
and its an excellent mouse. Before it I used the Logitech MX Air which
was also great, My only reason for the switch was when I moved to my new
job Logitech hadn't released Win7 compatible setpoint software for my
mouse and with using CAD i need to customise the buttons.

 

[Robin Bignall]

[Logitech mouse 'bouncing']

A favorite trick, is to hide one or more screws, under a sticker on
the bottom. On mine, the sticker has a cross cut in it, to make it
easy for a screwdriver to poke through it and get to the screw.

I've had gear with rubber feet, where the rubber feet pull out, and
there is a screw underneath.

The mouse shell and base, probably hinge on one end. So it's likely
to open on one end, and the rest should be obvious.

There is nothing obvious at all. No stickers, no rubber feet. The base
is a continuous piece of plastic with holes for the laser, the battery
test switch and the connection. There are two 'feet' at the front but
they're slick plastic like the rest. They probably pull out, but I'm
not going to bother.

In this example, there are two screws. One near the top center
(next to the GS letters, and dead center). The other screw
is under the Logitech "eyeball" on the lower sticker. So both
stickers, you push a screwdriver through them, to disassemble the
mouse. None of the four feet need to be disturbed. The hinge on
the case is likely that part near the bottom.

http://torapo.com/mouse/parts/m-bq85_02.jpg

There are an extraordinary number of small parts
inside some of these. Making you wonder how they
can afford to have people put them together.
And a few of those items are little springs, where
it'll take you ten minutes to figure out the
correct orientation, if they come loose. You would
think a high volume item, wouldn't be built that way.
[example and photo]

If you've already got your replacement mouse, then
you can still take the old item apart, just to see
the quality inside. Some problems can be caused
purely by dust buildup (dust clump between button plastic
and the base, preventing the microswitch from getting
full travel). But if you remove all the dust, and
the problem continues, then you know it's a "wear" problem.
I've lost a few mice, because the plastic "bump" on the
underside of the mouse button, has been beaten flat and
no longer actuates the microswitch plunger fully.

*******

Sometimes, it's a broken wire, where the cable enters the casing.

No cables -- it's wireless.Thanks for that, Paul. You are a treasure for the groups you post to.

I simply wiped the outside of the mouse over with impregnated cloth that
I have for cleaning my kidney dialysis machine. Tonight, so far, it
works perfectly! So I'll leave the new one in its box for when it
really breaks down.

 

[Robin Bignall]

:

I have a Logitech cordless laser mouse LX7 and keyboard LX710 combo.
Maybe 4 years old, and I'm extremely pleased with it.
But I notice, particularly when I'm using Agent to read newsgroups, that
a click on "Skip to next unread post" sometimes jumps a post.
Closer examination by pressing left-hand button, holding and releasing,
shows
-- most of time, skips when button released
-- some of time, skips when button pressed, again when button released.
I've looked at all possible mouse settings in Win 7 and Setpoint, but
can't find any that modify this behaviour.
Batteries are good.
It appears, sometimes, to generate two electronic 'clicks' for one
physical 'click'.
Anybody come across this before? Is the mouse screwed?

My wired Logitech is also doing 2 clicks instead of 1. Just playing
Spider Solitaire exhibits the 2-click defect when occasionally clicking
on the reserve card pile results in dealing out 2 rows instead of 1.
It's either a fault of the switch inside the mouse or the shell getting
warped and too close to the switch (i.e., the mouse button's plastic
piece is pressing against the switch). Eventually I'll have to get a
new one. Replacing the switch is too expensive assuming I can even find
an exact match. Trying to bend back the plastic piece for the mouse
button often results in over-fatiguing the plastic hinge for it. Tis
easier just to buy a new one.

The mouse switch usually looks like one of the following:

http://img02.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i2/T1Umd5XlVqXXaXY3Yb_123907.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31G231CxAiL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

If the switch goes bad, it could have flaky contacts hence the multiple
shorts to close the circuit or it could get worn so a slight angular
pressure across the switch roller or pad creates a contact to short the
circuit. I've had a mouse where the switch was okay but the mouse's
shell got bent for the mouse button plastic pieces. These are just
cutouts in the plastic and use a thinner section as the hinge. If the
shell is warped from heat or abuse then it can push against the switch.
While the warped plastic may not itself be sufficient to press the
switch to close its contacts, it allows for bouncing of the switch
contacts when you are releasing the button. You are lifting off the
mouse button, the switch bounces up to release its contacts, but the
button plastic is warped and still pressing against the switch roller or
pad. You could try to bend up the mouse button's plastic but that
usually doesn't help because the plastic hinge section is damaged and
you'll soon end up with the mouse button again pressing against the
switch on the PCB.

Thanks for that. As I say, my mouse and keyboard look pretty untouched
as far as warping or bending are concerned. [..]

The keyboard has a nice
feel that my wife (who spent a lot of her working life typing on all
sorts of keyboards) thinks it's great. It's nearly 1 in the morning
here and the dog is snoring so I think I'd better leave further
investigation until daylight! But in any case I bought a replacement.

You could see if someplace is still selling the old mouse, like search
at:

www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=logitech+lx7&oq=logitech+lx7

Some of the Logitech's come with a "unifying" USB transceiver that is
supposed to work across a mix of their mice and keyboards. So maybe you
could keep the old keyboard and buy a newer Logitech cordless mouse
whose transceiver works with the old keyboard. They have a list of
their devices that work with their unifying transceiver at:

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/349/6126?pcid=6072

I don't see "LX" anywhere on that page so your keyboard is probably too
old (i.e., designed before they came out with the unifying transceiver).

All hardware wears out or become unusable (with newer hardware) so looks
like it is about time to research some replacements.

As I told Paul, it's working perfectly today, so I'll keep the MK520
combo (which is unified) for a spare. Or maybe vice versa.

 

[Flasherly]

I use a Logitech Darkfield mouse or my job which is using CAD all day
and its an excellent mouse. Before it I used the Logitech MX Air which
was also great, My only reason for the switch was when I moved to my new
job Logitech hadn't released Win7 compatible setpoint software for my
mouse and with using CAD i need to customise the buttons.

Our CAD station would have had a mouse, although I'd think by now --
isn't a stylus tradition, or are they interchangeable with stylus
perhaps a specialty application? I've a stylus in the box so old I've
never used, but hard to imagine use for a mouse with more than buttons
than, basically, fingers on one hand. I'll presume that's not a
gyroscopic air mouse - something for waving through space as hand and
arm gestures;- mixed to negative reviews in my neck of the woods.

I've a portable German drafting board and a projector. I like studies
in depth perspective and occasional precision, architectural pieces,
but anything then usually goes of gesso for a covering of oils.

 

[Pete]

Our CAD station would have had a mouse, although I'd think by now --
isn't a stylus tradition, or are they interchangeable with stylus
perhaps a specialty application? I've a stylus in the box so old I've
never used, but hard to imagine use for a mouse with more than buttons
than, basically, fingers on one hand. I'll presume that's not a
gyroscopic air mouse - something for waving through space as hand and
arm gestures;- mixed to negative reviews in my neck of the woods.

I've a portable German drafting board and a projector. I like studies
in depth perspective and occasional precision, architectural pieces,
but anything then usually goes of gesso for a covering of oils.

Most people would think that a stylus would be very useful but now that
the CAD world revolves around 3D modelling the actual sketching is less
than 10% of the work. To move away from a mouse & keyboard setup I think
the only way to go is interactive panels but this introduces many issues
like you if you have the screen vertical then you're arms will get tired
quickly, horizontal and you're back/neck will give issues.

I don't think touch panels would work overly well, it would need to be
non-contact gesture control with possibly some form of holographics for
the display. I fear I will be too old to adjust to new techniques by the
time this tech is made available.

In truth I only use the standard 3 buttons on my mouse, CAD software has
become extremely intuitive over the last few years. I currently use
Pro-Engineer/Creo although most of my early career was using AutoCAD 3D
which was a dreadful package.

The MX Air was, I think, Gyroscopic based tech. I didnt really use it
for this feature, I mainly bought it as it felt nice to hold and also
looked like the ship from Flight of the Navigator LOL