Linux. It's safer because it's a pain in the rear.

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Doe
  • Start date Start date
J

John Doe

But seriously.

I've been doing Windows for ages. Never had a real problem to do
with security. Apparently Linux developers don't really care about
unpopular Linux is. Otherwise they would provide an option for the
ordinary user to get around all of the permissions garbage that is
set up by default in Linux.
 
But seriously.

I've been doing Windows for ages. Never had a real problem to do
with security. Apparently Linux developers don't really care about
unpopular Linux is. Otherwise they would provide an option for the
ordinary user to get around all of the permissions garbage that is
set up by default in Linux.
Click to expand...
All you have to do is learn how to use it properly. Too many people spend
endless time trying to "fix" Linux by messing with permission and all
that.

Michael
 
Michael Black said:
All you have to do is learn how to use it properly.
Click to expand...

As usual, that's vague. That happens a lot when you ask for help.
If you get any answer at all, people often provide a vague answer,
or they provide an answer that appears to have been translated by
Babel Fish. Or the answer is incomplete.
Too many people spend endless time trying to "fix" Linux by
messing with permission and all that.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to fix it, I'm trying to use it. People who
actually do something with their computers need ready access
simple functions like copy, cut, and paste.

First, I try to download a 7z themes file. That fails. So I
install 7-zip. Then, the file downloads. But it doesn't extract
properly. Somehow, it properly extracted once. Anyway, there is
also the problem of file permissions. You can somehow do that from
a command line. You can also open a file manager from the command
line using "root" permissions. But that file manager is only
partly functional, it doesn't use your preferences. At that point,
I'm still stuck trying to extract and copy the 7z file from the
download utility to the themes folder. I've done some research,
but so far found answers that are incomplete and/or incorrect.
One of the problems with trying to research a problem appears
to be that there is so many different versions of Linux.
 
But seriously.

I've been doing Windows for ages. Never had a real problem to do
with security. Apparently Linux developers don't really care about
unpopular Linux is. Otherwise they would provide an option for the
ordinary user to get around all of the permissions garbage that is
set up by default in Linux.
Click to expand...
Linux does things differently.
perhaps you should just stick with windows...
 
What's in a Name? said:
John Doe wrote:
Linux does things differently.
Click to expand...

Obviously some things it does worse. The lack of voice-activated
macroing/scripting is a prime example.
perhaps you should just stick with windows...
Click to expand...

Hello there nym-shifting troll.
 
Obviously some things it does worse. The lack of voice-activated
macroing/scripting is a prime example.


Hello there nym-shifting troll.
Click to expand...
that would be Mr to you
 
I just takes a little more time and it is completely different from MS OS so
it just requires a little reading. I have not had too much of a problem
using it
Click to expand...
But you get that. People complaining in the Linux newsgroups, "I want to
run as root because it's simpler, but such and such a program won't let me
run it as root" and it's seen as a complication rather than a clue that
one should run as a user. Most of the time, the reason they want to run
as root is because they are doing something wrong, like not putting
themselves in the right groups, so they think root will fix things. But
then they often have to do work to run everything as root anyway.

It probably is a conceptual shift that needs to be done, rather than "it's
too hard".

Michael
 
John said:
Here's an example of the lack of help you get when asking
about problems that might have to do with permissions...

http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1847573.html
Click to expand...

You do realize, they write books on this stuff.

Back in the day, when we were plunked in front of a Unix
box, they didn't allow us to ask questions at first. They
gave a pile of books. You read the books first, to get
the basics. As that stopped you from asking too many
"noob" questions. At that time, our SunOs computers
also came with their own excellent manuals, and I learned a
lot from those. Sun documentation gradually went downhill
after that.

If this was a Linux group, we could ask how many people have
seen this.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/713SA4D3ACL._SS500_.gif

OReilly has a ton of books on specialized topics like that.
Find a computer book store, and see what they've got. You
gotta flip through the books, to eliminate the fluffy ones.

http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Shell...8&qid=1340770165&sr=1-1&keywords=bourne+shell

*******

So you won't go away unhappy, this will give you a primer
on permissions. Like lots of Wikipedia articles, it's not
focused enough on effective learning. Sections there could
just be snipped out. But you might get enough out of it
for your purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_permissions

*******

On Sun systems, we used to load AnswerBook on the machines.
Sun at one time, also offered these online, web based.
Gradually, over the years, Sun got more and more grumpy,
cutting off web access. And that's why I offer you this
web.archive.org page, as a substitute. This will give
you some "free" lessons, if you can stand navigation via
archive.org . A small section on permissions is near the bottom
of this particular page.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080531224512/http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/801-6615/6i0vsc1up?a=view

It looks like they also managed to archive the PDF versions.
When we got this from Sun, it usually came on a CD. Now, this
is "real" documentation. Dry as paper dust, boring as hell,
but it is documentation. A project I worked on, made documentation
like this too. Two feet thick... so you could sit on it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090521035923/http://dlc.sun.com/pdf/801-6614/801-6614.pdf

Paul
 
Nil said:
You didn't ask for help.
Click to expand...

That's right, Nildo.
Try asking a non-vague question. Maybe you'll get a non-vague
answer.
Click to expand...

I provided an example of that, Nildo.

--













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From: Nil <rednoise REMOVETHIScomcast.net>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: Linux. It's safer because it's a pain in the rear.
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:50:00 -0400
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Paul said:
John Doe wrote:

You do realize, they write books on this stuff.
Books?

Back in the day, when we were plunked in front of a Unix
box, they didn't allow us to ask questions at first. They
gave a pile of books. You read the books first, to get
the basics. As that stopped you from asking too many
"noob" questions.
Click to expand...

Long ago, in a land far far away...

Things have changed. Have you noticed YouTube? It is a
unfathomably vast resource for learning about all sorts of
subjects. Not perfect, but even better than the massive textbased
communications on the Internet. I guess it's kind of funny,
thinking about how elementary picture books were. Now a picture
oriented media (YouTube) makes books look like stone tablets.

--
 
Michael Black said:
But you get that. People complaining in the Linux newsgroups,
"I want to run as root because it's simpler, but such and such a
program won't let me run it as root" and it's seen as a
complication rather than a clue that one should run as a user.
Most of the time, the reason they want to run as root is because
they are doing something wrong, like not putting themselves in
the right groups, so they think root will fix things. But then
they often have to do work to run everything as root anyway.

It probably is a conceptual shift that needs to be done, rather
than "it's too hard".
Click to expand...

It's not too hard, it's annoying. All of the file permissions
garbage is just further proof that Linux is a server operating
system, not meant for end users. The file permissions are
unnecessary and cumbersome for a casual/ordinary personal computer
user. No doubt the programmers know better, but there are still
some Linux Lunatics running around touting the next as a
mainstream operating system. Real programmers probably don't care,
their money comes from businesses. They know they're not competing
against Microsoft in the personal computer market.
 
John said:
It's not too hard, it's annoying. All of the file permissions
garbage is just further proof that Linux is a server operating
system, not meant for end users. The file permissions are
unnecessary and cumbersome for a casual/ordinary personal computer
user. No doubt the programmers know better, but there are still
some Linux Lunatics running around touting the next as a
mainstream operating system. Real programmers probably don't care,
their money comes from businesses. They know they're not competing
against Microsoft in the personal computer market.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting the origins of these machines.

At one time, for end users, you would have *one* Unix box,
32 serial ports, and individual *text* terminals would
allow login. It was a timeshared system, allowing a large
number of users to share an expensive resource. To
"partition" the users from one another, the permission
bits ensured ordinary users, didn't start reading roots
email box.

The fact only one user logs into a Linux box now, is an
aberration. The infrastructure is there, to support
multiple users at the same time.

You can even run multiple graphical sessions, using
remote X terminals. We used that technology at one
time too. At work, some of the software developers would
use "thin clients", and share a box with another developer.
They also had software at work, for load balancing. You
could open your email in the morning, and the email task
would be running on a computer down the hall. This occasionally
led to complaints, when a "pig process" from one user, made
the machine down the hall run sluggish for that user.

In fact, I used that capability at home. Using an encrypted
VPN, I used to remote into my Unix box, and do CAD design.
It was slow, but the screen looked just like my screen at work.

So these environments have been supporting multiple users,
in a flexible fashion for a long time. The fact your Linux
box only has you sitting in front of it, and not a pile of
squids sharing it, is a lucky break for you. But those
permission bits aren't going away any time soon. This
is not Windows 98.

Paul
 
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