Layout Tables

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Guest

I've just moved from FP 2000 to 2003.
Is the new Layout Table just an automated Table.

I've been using Tables for years to layout my sites.
anything actually new or just another effort to make FP for dummies (no
offense)
 
Basically, it's an HTML table that has 0 border widths. It isn't exactly an
effor to make FP for dummies, but can, in fact, be quite an excellent
productivity tool for those who still use HTML tables for layout.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.
 
Some think CSS is the better way...

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
Hi
What do you think Thomas?
If the answer is it's better,are there any tutorials
Thanks
Paul M

Thomas A. Rowe said:
Some think CSS is the better way...

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
Click to expand...
 
Personally I will always stick with tables as long as the major browsers support them. I only see
CSS as being another option/tool for web development, not as must do/have type of replacement for
current thing that work.

You can spend a lot of time trying to get your layout to look the way you want when using CSS 2
(layout), so when time is money, tables to me is the way to go.

I also don't use CSS for fonts.

Site visitors really don't care or need to care how you created your pages as long as it displays in
their browser of choice and has the info they are looking for, only other web developers are concern
about what method you use to construct your pages.

However, let me say that I mostly develop ASP/Database driven sites, and can achieve many of the
benefits of using a single external CSS file all with ASP.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
Thanks Thomas
Paul M
Thomas A. Rowe said:
Personally I will always stick with tables as long as the major browsers
support them. I only see CSS as being another option/tool for web
development, not as must do/have type of replacement for current thing
that work.

You can spend a lot of time trying to get your layout to look the way you
want when using CSS 2 (layout), so when time is money, tables to me is the
way to go.

I also don't use CSS for fonts.

Site visitors really don't care or need to care how you created your pages
as long as it displays in their browser of choice and has the info they
are looking for, only other web developers are concern about what method
you use to construct your pages.

However, let me say that I mostly develop ASP/Database driven sites, and
can achieve many of the benefits of using a single external CSS file all
with ASP.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
Click to expand...
 
Thomas is affectionately known as a 'dinosar' but of the non-extenct
variety.<g>

Many people continue to use tables which have their pros and cons. I'm sure
Thomas has been expecting me to jump in here and advocate CSS. <vgb>

I find CSS to be more flexible, faster loading and with less restrictions on
what can be done. To see some inspirational sites using CSS take a look at
http://csszengarden.com. Every page on that site uses the exact same html
(xhtml) page. The only difference is the stylesheet and the graphics loaded
by the stylesheet.

I have a couple of basic CSS layouts in DWT format available for download in
conjunction with my DWT tutorial at
http://mvp.wiserways.com/tutorials/dwt/index.html along with some basic CSS
info in the tutorials section.

--
Cheryl D. Wise
MS FrontPage MVP
http://mvp.wiserways.com
http://starttoweb.com
Online instructor led web design training in FrontPage,
Dreamweaver and more!
Next Session June 26th
 
Don't expect any comments from me!

....except for this one, of course!

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

Cheryl D Wise said:
Thomas is affectionately known as a 'dinosar' but of the non-extenct
variety.<g>

Many people continue to use tables which have their pros and cons. I'm
sure Thomas has been expecting me to jump in here and advocate CSS. <vgb>

I find CSS to be more flexible, faster loading and with less restrictions
on what can be done. To see some inspirational sites using CSS take a look
at http://csszengarden.com. Every page on that site uses the exact same
html (xhtml) page. The only difference is the stylesheet and the graphics
loaded by the stylesheet.

I have a couple of basic CSS layouts in DWT format available for download
in conjunction with my DWT tutorial at
http://mvp.wiserways.com/tutorials/dwt/index.html along with some basic
CSS info in the tutorials section.

--
Cheryl D. Wise
MS FrontPage MVP
http://mvp.wiserways.com
http://starttoweb.com
Online instructor led web design training in FrontPage,
Dreamweaver and more!
Next Session June 26th
Click to expand...
 
But I have heard that usig CSS for layout gives unpredictabe results on
diffeent browsers and that it is more time-consuming to lay out.. Is that
so?

Wally S

Cheryl D Wise said:
Thomas is affectionately known as a 'dinosar' but of the non-extenct
variety.<g>

Many people continue to use tables which have their pros and cons. I'm sure
Thomas has been expecting me to jump in here and advocate CSS. <vgb>

I find CSS to be more flexible, faster loading and with less restrictions on
what can be done. To see some inspirational sites using CSS take a look at
http://csszengarden.com. Every page on that site uses the exact same html
(xhtml) page. The only difference is the stylesheet and the graphics loaded
by the stylesheet.

I have a couple of basic CSS layouts in DWT format available for download in
conjunction with my DWT tutorial at
http://mvp.wiserways.com/tutorials/dwt/index.html along with some basic CSS
info in the tutorials section.

--
Cheryl D. Wise
MS FrontPage MVP
http://mvp.wiserways.com
http://starttoweb.com
Online instructor led web design training in FrontPage,
Dreamweaver and more!
Next Session June 26th
Click to expand...
 
That's a bit like the signpost on the golf course which says "Do Not Lean
Golf Clubs On This Sign"
<vbg>

--
Cheers,
Trevor L., WIP (Web Interested Person)
Website: http://tandcl.homemail.com.au

Kevin said:
Don't expect any comments from me!

...except for this one, of course!

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.
Click to expand...


I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
 
Thanks.
What is DWT.
Thomas (dinosaur or not) has consistently supplied me with great advice over
the years.
Now I don't understand.
Myp main reason for using external CSS is fonts (the heart of keeping it
consistent. I can't imagine how to get a table created graphically in FP
into my Style sheet
--
bill


Cheryl D Wise said:
Thomas is affectionately known as a 'dinosar' but of the non-extenct
variety.<g>

Many people continue to use tables which have their pros and cons. I'm sure
Thomas has been expecting me to jump in here and advocate CSS. <vgb>

I find CSS to be more flexible, faster loading and with less restrictions on
what can be done. To see some inspirational sites using CSS take a look at
http://csszengarden.com. Every page on that site uses the exact same html
(xhtml) page. The only difference is the stylesheet and the graphics loaded
by the stylesheet.

I have a couple of basic CSS layouts in DWT format available for download in
conjunction with my DWT tutorial at
http://mvp.wiserways.com/tutorials/dwt/index.html along with some basic CSS
info in the tutorials section.

--
Cheryl D. Wise
MS FrontPage MVP
http://mvp.wiserways.com
http://starttoweb.com
Online instructor led web design training in FrontPage,
Dreamweaver and more!
Next Session June 26th
Click to expand...
 
DWT - Dynamic Web Template in FP 2003

--




| Thanks.
| What is DWT.
| Thomas (dinosaur or not) has consistently supplied me with great advice over
| the years.
| Now I don't understand.
| Myp main reason for using external CSS is fonts (the heart of keeping it
| consistent. I can't imagine how to get a table created graphically in FP
| into my Style sheet
| --
| bill
|
|
| "Cheryl D Wise" wrote:
|
| > Thomas is affectionately known as a 'dinosar' but of the non-extenct
| > variety.<g>
| >
| > Many people continue to use tables which have their pros and cons. I'm sure
| > Thomas has been expecting me to jump in here and advocate CSS. <vgb>
| >
| > I find CSS to be more flexible, faster loading and with less restrictions on
| > what can be done. To see some inspirational sites using CSS take a look at
| > http://csszengarden.com. Every page on that site uses the exact same html
| > (xhtml) page. The only difference is the stylesheet and the graphics loaded
| > by the stylesheet.
| >
| > I have a couple of basic CSS layouts in DWT format available for download in
| > conjunction with my DWT tutorial at
| > http://mvp.wiserways.com/tutorials/dwt/index.html along with some basic CSS
| > info in the tutorials section.
| >
| > --
| > Cheryl D. Wise
| > MS FrontPage MVP
| > http://mvp.wiserways.com
| > http://starttoweb.com
| > Online instructor led web design training in FrontPage,
| > Dreamweaver and more!
| > Next Session June 26th
| >
| > | > > Hi
| > > For those who still use html for layout?
| > > Is there a better way?
| > > Paul M
| > > | > >> Basically, it's an HTML table that has 0 border widths. It isn't exactly
| > >> an effor to make FP for dummies, but can, in fact, be quite an excellent
| > >> productivity tool for those who still use HTML tables for layout.
| > >>
| > >> --
| > >> HTH,
| > >>
| > >> Kevin Spencer
| > >> Microsoft MVP
| > >> .Net Developer
| > >> Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.
| > >>
| > >> | > >>> I've just moved from FP 2000 to 2003.
| > >>> Is the new Layout Table just an automated Table.
| > >>>
| > >>> I've been using Tables for years to layout my sites.
| > >>> anything actually new or just another effort to make FP for dummies (no
| > >>> offense)
| > >>> --
| > >>> bill
| > >>
| > >>
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
| >
 
There is a learning curve with CSS that is somewhat greater than tables but
there is also more power and flexibility. If the browsers would all
implement the W3C standards in the same way the learning curve would be
significantly less.

Once you have got a handle on CSS it is no more time consuming to create a
page layout using CSS than it is using tables. It can even be significantly
less because you only have to do it once in your stylesheet. ;-)

Simple layouts can almost always be achieved simply and easily with CSS
without hacks. Complex ones like many you see at http://csszengarden.com on
the other hand take real skill to produce.
 
Thomas is very good at what he does and sees little reason to change until
it quits working. Since browsers continue to support tables he will continue
to use them.

Brief explaination about CSS. There are 3 versions of CSS currently in use:

CSS level 1 - that includes fonts, text align, float, and position absolute
(use with care due to browser issues)

CSS level 2 - add more positioning and layout elements along with support
for different types of devices such as handheld, tv, projection, etc. most
version 5+ browsers can handle the majority of level 2 css

CSS level 2.1 - generated content and other more advanced features, browser
support is not always so hot, use with caution and test in as many browsers
and operating systems as you can get your hands on.

You cannot generate your table is CSS. You can style and format it. By using
different ids or classes you can have different presentation elements
(fonts, text alignment, padding, margins, etc.) applied to each table on
your page. Very handly if you use nested tables.

--
Cheryl D. Wise
MS FrontPage MVP
http://mvp.wiserways.com
http://starttoweb.com
Online instructor led web design training in FrontPage,
Dreamweaver and more!
Next Session June 26th
 
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