Large volume textual A3 use - HP1220c or LQ-680?

[dorothy.bradbury]

Large volume textual A3 use - HP1220c or LQ-680?

Yes, that's right - a 24-pin dot-matrix A3 fanfold printer.
I know the HP does cut-sheet A3 only (not tractor fed).

I have 1000-5000 pages to print off occasionally, about 6x/yr.
Take it as 40% plain-jane textual coverage on A3 paper.

o LQ-680 (refurbished)
--- Benefit - economical purchase + cheap ribbon + fast printing
--- PITA - dot-matrix fade-R-us ribbon, 24-pin is just about ok

o HP 1220c
--- Benefit - not too pricey + can do colour (minor) + consistent-black
--- PITA - cartridge cost + paper-tray only 150? A3 not 2000-fanfold

So - anyone any real-world experience of the HP:
Q: How many pages of 40%-A3-text per cartridge?
Q: How is speed for such text - no chars-per-sec spec for the printer?

The HP has another benefit re Prj2k charts, a bit of colour.
However the main thing is the cartridge issue - as always.

DFX8000 would be handy I guess, but might move the house...

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

Still not so sure on the answer...

Bulk text A3 printing:
o 5000-10,000 pages + Short life-cycle of print-out, then archived +
repeated reprints
o Essentially multi-manuscript/book editing on a large scale.

HP1220c - CNet's User Reviews...
o Paper handling - junk for heavy, ok for me re 60-90gsm
o Paper capacity - poor 150 sheets at best
o PSU design err - marginal thermal design, terminal design

Q: Does the PSU heatsink redesign fix the latter problem?

It comes back down to cost...
o LQ-680 24-pin high-speed
---- cheap ribbon - 2-3M chars, but how many are readable?
---- cheap paper -- 2000 sheets of 70gsm A3 fanfold ~20ukp
o HP-1220c inkjet
---- cheap carts -- 42ml hi-cap black ~9.99ukp & 100% readable
---- pricey paper - 2000 sheets cut A3 ~34-40ukp

Price wise:
o HP1220c with 365-day warranty 190ukp
o LQ-680 refub 180-day warranty 90ukp - 100ukp saving, almost free printer

So still the basic question:

Q: How many A3 40%-plain-text pages per HP1220c cartridge?

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

Nothing beats a test:
o Only DFX5000 quick enough vs LQ-680 to offset dot-matrix quality
---- had forgotten just how bad ribbon technology is
o That evaporates the cost-penalty of draft-mode 1220c inkjet

More to the point, formatting in dot-matrix is limited re proportional
fonts.
Whilst this is all text, high speed drafting on bulk-documents, it still
does
require basic proportional font flexibility & annotation.

So looks like the HP1220c re cheapest A3 inkjet for text-only.
Pity the PSU isn't external re temperatures, but there are two redesigns
I'm told by a HP engineer friend and they were "ashamed" of the problem.

Prefer that to extend to known resolved, but I guess I'll find out.
Still wish inkjets used a remote tank, preferably gallonous sized *smile*.

 

[Warren Block]

Large volume textual A3 use -

A3 is 42x30cm, or 16.5x11.8in, right? The European equivalent of 11x17?

HP1220c or LQ-680?

Ack. There are a number of lasers that will print this much faster and
with better quality.

I have 1000-5000 pages to print off occasionally, about 6x/yr.
Take it as 40% plain-jane textual coverage on A3 paper.

Ack. I admire the courage it takes to consider printing this on inkjet
or impact printers.

o LQ-680 (refurbished)
--- Benefit - economical purchase + cheap ribbon + fast printing
--- PITA - dot-matrix fade-R-us ribbon, 24-pin is just about ok

I don't know the specifics of this printer. Some 24-pin printers are
relatively quiet. Most Epson impact printers are going to be much above
300-400 characters per second, which is not fast when you're printing
1,000 pages. Supplies cost may surprise you.

o HP 1220c
--- Benefit - not too pricey + can do colour (minor) + consistent-black
--- PITA - cartridge cost + paper-tray only 150? A3 not 2000-fanfold

Likes to coat the inside of the case and the surface it is sitting on
with a fine spray of black ink. Paper feed is poor, and paper capacity
will be a problem. They're slow. I've had to support two of these fine
units. The 1220C is an improvement on the older 1000C and 1120C, but
not enough of one. If you must go this way, the CP1700 seems better,
although it shares much of the design. The support calls dropped off
dramatically after we replaced the DJ1220s with CP1700s.

So - anyone any real-world experience of the HP:
Q: How many pages of 40%-A3-text per cartridge?
Q: How is speed for such text - no chars-per-sec spec for the printer?

It's not fast. I can't quantify it more than that.

Here are my suggestions:

LaserJet 5SI, 8000, 8100, 5000, 5100.

The first two of these may be found used or refurbed at around the same
prices as a new DJ1220 or CP1700, and they print faster, more reliably,
with a higher quality, and at a lower cost per page than the Deskjet.

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

Ack. I admire the courage it takes to consider printing this on inkjet

or impact printers.

I think you're right.

I had a ESC-1520, which was quite quick for A3 text but 2 big problems:
o Feeble input & output tray capacity
o Ink never seemed to get beyond 500 A4 text pages, let alone A3

I sold it, post office wrecked it & immediately paid for for it.

Re HP-1220c

Likes to coat the inside of the case and the surface it is sitting on
with a fine spray of black ink. Paper feed is poor, and paper capacity
will be a problem. They're slow. I've had to support two of these fine
units. The 1220C is an improvement on the older 1000C and 1120C, but
not enough of one. If you must go this way, the CP1700 seems better,
although it shares much of the design. The support calls dropped off
dramatically after we replaced the DJ1220s with CP1700s.

Same paper & speed problems of 1520, plus picasso-paint-spreading.

LaserJet 5SI, 8000, 8100, 5000, 5100.
The first two of these may be found used or refurbed at around the same
prices as a new DJ1220 or CP1700, and they print faster, more reliably,
with a higher quality, and at a lower cost per page than the Deskjet.

I think that's the only way - 500 sheet feeder & designed for k's of pages.

Gave up A3 lasers originally re size & weight. However, moving around
a rack on 6" castors shows it just needs a similar solution - cheap n easy.

Thanks - gone to hunt around the recyclers, page-counts & "ex-SOHO"

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

Colleague loaning me his 2500c for a few days later this week.
He moved to an A3 colour laser - I can have the 2500c for 5ukp.

Not sure that's a bargain altho 400 sheet capacity is a start.

Not even found compatible consumables or page counts for it, plenty
of 5si's which are a dime a dozen & large capacity out of the box. Oddly
no colleagues willing to part with their 5si's... which may be telling

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

The 2500c might have legs:
o HP carts - 1,400 pages for black -- 15ukp
o HP heads - 12,000 pges for black -- 18ukp
o 400 pges - 150+250 sheet capacity

Factory refurbished, including the bad ink-thing design,
then stored as emergency spare for A3 colour laser. 5ukp.

Not a 5si despite 60lb weight, but interesting.
o 2500c = 7,000 pages = 75ukp ink + 10ukp heads = 85ukp
o 5si === 7,000 pages = 65ukp (15,000 pages for 125ukp)

Now pages are 20% coverage, but is that text or solid?
I suspect text, so comparison gets moot to some extent.

Q: Any thoughts?

o Ebay 5si.......... 180ukp for wipe-over + 30-day warranty
---- new toner adds 125ukp = 305ukp (old catch-22 of unknown toner)
o HP-Refurb 5si .... 395ukp for 90-day proper refurb job
---- new toner not guaranteed or is and add 17.5% VAT
o HP-Refurb 2500c = 5ukp (to me)
---- new carts & heads, however 7,000 "HP-pages" = 85ukp

Separate head v cart seems more gimmick than economy.

 

[Warren Block]

Colleague loaning me his 2500c for a few days later this week.
He moved to an A3 colour laser - I can have the 2500c for 5ukp.

Not sure that's a bargain altho 400 sheet capacity is a start.

Probably worth having for the price--then you can print color in A3.
I've used the 2000, which is okay but has a reputation for broken ink or
nozzles, AFAIR.

I think you'll find the print speed to be the biggest problem.

Not even found compatible consumables or page counts for it, plenty
of 5si's which are a dime a dozen & large capacity out of the box. Oddly
no colleagues willing to part with their 5si's... which may be telling

If you have colleagues with 5SIs, just have them run the print job for
you. Offer to pay them the per-page cost, which is probably around 2-3
cents. Or provide the paper yourself and offer to babysit it. Or just
offer to take them out to lunch for it.

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

Doing a spreadsheet of TCO under every scenario returns to laser.

However, 4V offers a better price point than 5si:
o Same <30k page count -- 4V is 1/2 the price of 5si
o Cartridge sunk cost -- 4V is 1/3 the price of 5si for 8k v 15k pages

My concern with either 4V or 5si is cracked rollers, seen it on used HP 4
even with low page count - so need to check out a maintenance kit costs.
That said a 4V is in the write-off cost and generally available.

Found I can scale A3 landscape to A4 landscape for archiving,
it's readable and good enough for a "security archive" at least.

A3 laser space needs some price competition.

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

Probably worth having for the price--then you can print color in A3.

I've used the 2000, which is okay but has a reputation for broken ink or
nozzles, AFAIR.

There's a design problem with the ink pump on the 2500c, basically it
"does an epson" and spins without engaging the gears due to a crack.

I think you'll find the print speed to be the biggest problem.

With 400 sheet bins, I can leave it overnight or in another room (SOHO).
Easy enough to network onto a spare 1U PC and it can churn away.

I could do some changes:
o Archive-prints to A4 laser - shrink landscape-A3 to landscape-A4
---- takes more A4 pages, and drops 11pt to 8pt with no margins
---- cheaper on toner & paper too
o Regular print on A4 inkjet - fastest draft mode is fine
---- basically for off-line away from PC reading/editing/annotation etc

Can only do so much on a screen vs outline & expanded text in front of you.
Checking the documents, they are A4, reformatting & rewriting will bring
them into A3 and very probably into 2000 pgs rather than 5000+. That is
whilst not in the (reality) range of a 2500c black, more palletable

Another supplier does 2500c compatible carts down at 7ukp for 69ml.

So comes down to the 2500c or HP 4V.
I suspect I'll go with the 2500c - I like the idea of magenta to tag text -
and
can then keep an eye out for a 4V/5si with known maintenance history.

Many thanks for the replies.

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

That should say:

o Archive-prints to A4 laser - shrink landscape-A3 to landscape-A4
o Regular print on *A3* inkjet - fastest draft mode is fine

Typo.
Paper handling on so many A3 inkjets seems tacked-on, whole focus
is around photo printing (few pages) and not textual/spreadsheet use.

Then again I guess they know the finance guys will go for A3 laser
"Sorry Mr IRS, we're just waiting on the inkjet to finish 1997s accounts..."