Kingwin KF-23-IPF, etc

  • Thread starter Thread starter inquiringmind
  • Start date Start date
I

inquiringmind

Does anyone know if the Kingwin KF-23-IPF or any of the other ball
bearing fan models of mobile racks will fit a standard Dell Dimension
case. I have two 5 inch bays open, but I have not measured them and I
read a complaint by someone of another brand not fitting.
 
Or if anyone knows of a quality mobile rack for hds that they have used
with a dimension xps-t800, please advise.
 
inquiringmind said:
Does anyone know if the Kingwin KF-23-IPF or any of the other ball
bearing fan models of mobile racks will fit a standard Dell Dimension
case. I have two 5 inch bays open, but I have not measured them and I
read a complaint by someone of another brand not fitting.
Click to expand...

I use the KF-101-IPF model that has the fan in the bottom of the
removable tray. Otherwise, it's identical to the KF-23-IPF, and it
fits my Dimension perfectly. The 5-inch bays are an industry
standard, and it would be a really off-brand to have non-standard
size bays. BTW, one of the hardware websites tested several
fan configurations for effectiveness of cooling, and the kind with
the fan in the bottom of the tray came out best and it was also
quieter than the kind with one or more fans in the front. I can
attest that it keeps my Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 hard drive
quite cool. If you run into problems getting ribbon cables to fit,
try "round" cables. I use the kind with the braided shield, and I
get them from here: http://www.svc.com/cables.html .

*TimDaniels*
 
in
Thanks for the reply Timothy.

The only thing is that I will have two drives on top of each other
and on the bottom of two optical drives. Where's the bottom fan
going to get a good shot at exhaust if it is sandwiched in that
configuration? With the size of the rack, I would think there will
be little space between the bottom of one drive and the top of the
next. That is why the KF-23 which I believe has three fans seems
to be better for cooling. Do you have a link for that study?

I think the KF-101 is the only one that comes with a new fan when
you order an extra drawer, right? Also what model is your
Dimension? Reason I posted is one guy had a problem with another
mfg's rack not fitting the Dimension.
 
Here is all that I can find at this time:
http://www.maximum3d.com/printpage.php?id=100

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/kingwin/
This 2nd review looks at a triple fan model - two in front,
one in the back - and a two-fan model - one on the
bottom and one in the back. It prefers the two-fan
model. Unfortunately, Kingwin no longer makes that
one, probably because the fan in the back does
nothing, and KF-101-IPF has only the fan in the
bottom.

The trays for KF-101-IPF each have a fan in the bottom,
but models with front fans have the fans attached to the tray,
too. The bottom fan lies flat against a hole in the bottom
of the tray, drawing air in the front of the tray and then past
the HD's circuit board, exhausting horizontally backward into
the case due to a plastic fan shroud. The fan lies completely
within the profile of the front of the tray, and trays do not interfere
with each other from above or below, so I assume they can
be stacked. I haven't tried it, though.

My Dimension is an XPS-R450, purchased in Jan '99.

*TimDaniels*
 
**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

Ok, thanks Timothy.

I read both the reviews. They both criticize the lack of
provisions for exhaust of fan airflow for both models, with the
101 model being better in that regard. It is interesting that a
company that specializes in mobile racks and puts fans in the
racks doesn't allow for proper exhaust of the fan airflow,
although according to the review you cited, the 101 model does
provide cooling to the drive. Since the case on the 101 is almost
fully enclosed and the air flow is from front grill to fan to
small openings in rear, I guess the space under the unit (with
drives stacked on top of each other) is not that critical. I will
measure the vertical distance to see however what room will exist
between the two drives.

Thanks very much for your help.

Here is all that I can find at this time:
http://www.maximum3d.com/printpage.php?id=100

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/kingwin/
This 2nd review looks at a triple fan model - two in front,
one in the back - and a two-fan model - one on the
bottom and one in the back. It prefers the two-fan
model. Unfortunately, Kingwin no longer makes that
one, probably because the fan in the back does
nothing, and KF-101-IPF has only the fan in the
bottom.

The trays for KF-101-IPF each have a fan in the bottom,
but models with front fans have the fans attached to the tray,
too. The bottom fan lies flat against a hole in the bottom
of the tray, drawing air in the front of the tray and then past
the HD's circuit board, exhausting horizontally backward into
the case due to a plastic fan shroud. The fan lies completely
within the profile of the front of the tray, and trays do not
interfere with each other from above or below, so I assume they
can be stacked. I haven't tried it, though.

My Dimension is an XPS-R450, purchased in Jan '99.

*TimDaniels*
Click to expand...


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
http://www.usenet.com
Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Just buy them. Pricewatch.com currently lists a low price
of $24 which includes shipping. In my opinion, these
aftermarket items are designed according to what people
will buy and not according to what makes engineering sense
or what tests have shown to be most effective. The bottom
fan design just happens to work, but it's hard to describe,
so people continue to buy the ones with fans in the front or
back.

*TimDaniels*
 
FWIW, I have four KF21-IPFs, and the drive temps are
practically the same in those as they were racked
up normally. That'd be around 40C, or 45C when running
non-stop. The KF21 has the one fan at the back. I'm
looking at 39C right now (3 platter PATA/7K250). For
those that want to listen to three fans, there's the
KF23-, two front fans, one back. Newegg has it. Also
a two fanner, KF22 (same as the KF23, but one fan removed).
And the KF21 the same, but only the one fan. I find
this is much better, and quieter, than using USB external.

40C = 40x2-10%+32=104F (it's a lot hotter in Phoenix)

TD- [Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:46:29 -0700]:
 
FWIW, I have four KF21-IPFs, and the drive temps are
practically the same in those as they were racked
up normally. That'd be around 40C, or 45C when running
non-stop. The KF21 has the one fan at the back. I'm
looking at 39C right now (3 platter PATA/7K250). [...]
Click to expand...


Interesting! If you ever try a KF-101-IPF (bottom fan),
please report your results with temperature and noise
levels.

*TimDaniels*
 
(e-mail address removed) () wrote in
FWIW, I have four KF21-IPFs, and the drive temps are
practically the same in those as they were racked
up normally. That'd be around 40C, or 45C when running
non-stop. The KF21 has the one fan at the back. I'm
looking at 39C right now (3 platter PATA/7K250). For
those that want to listen to three fans, there's the
KF23-, two front fans, one back. Newegg has it. Also
a two fanner, KF22 (same as the KF23, but one fan removed).
And the KF21 the same, but only the one fan. I find
this is much better, and quieter, than using USB external.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the additional info. I searched for reviews of mobile racks
and found that both the Kingwin and Vartec models were criticized for
not having enough ventilation to the drawer for the fans to properly
exhaust. On the Vartec, which sells for around $10 more, but has a bad
fan alarm and temp readout, the fan was partly obstructed by the frame.
Seems to me these guys should know to drill a few stategically placed
holes for the fans to exhaust to. If you have multiple fans, if one dies
the others may still operate. But doesn't matter how many you have if
they cannot do their job due to restricted airflow.
40C = 40x2-10%+32=104F (it's a lot hotter in Phoenix)

TD- [Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:46:29 -0700]:
http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/kingwin/
This 2nd review looks at a triple fan model - two in front,
one in the back - and a two-fan model - one on the
bottom and one in the back. It prefers the two-fan
model. Unfortunately, Kingwin no longer makes that
one, probably because the fan in the back does
nothing, and KF-101-IPF has only the fan in the>bottom.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
inquiringmind said:
Thanks for the additional info. I searched for reviews of mobile racks
and found that both the Kingwin and Vartec models were criticized for
not having enough ventilation to the drawer for the fans to properly
exhaust. On the Vartec, which sells for around $10 more, but has a bad
fan alarm and temp readout, the fan was partly obstructed by the frame.
Seems to me these guys should know to drill a few stategically placed
holes for the fans to exhaust to. If you have multiple fans, if one dies
the others may still operate. But doesn't matter how many you have if
they cannot do their job due to restricted airflow.
Click to expand...


If you'd just buy a mobile rack and quit researching them to death,
you'd see that the "reviewers" just needed something to write -
even if it's drivel. As for the fan in the back, it exhausts directly
into the body of the PC's case - no ventilation holes needed. The
fan(s) in the front suck air into the tray and it works its way around
the HD, but neither front nor back fans work the air past the circuit
board as well as the bottom fan. In my opinion, the PC's case
exhaust fan plays a bigger role. Mine is 92mm in diameter, and it
keeps *everything* cool. Quit agonizing and just buy a mobile rack
and try it out. They're only $24.

*TimDaniels*
 
I never buy anything unless I know what I'm buying, especially
something as important as a component that might play a role in HD
longevity. I really don't think the reviews I read were drivel.
The drivel review are the ones that say how great a product is
with no criticism-those are usually the ones that are bought and
paid for by the mfg. It is the ones that criticize that I pay
attention to because they are usually more accurate, though not
always. It is not the cost of these racks that is important, it is
also the labor involved and the risk that a poorly designed
product to the hdd. On the surface the 3 fan model seems to be the
logical choice, but others have said the bottom fan model cools
best. Again, doesn't matter how many fans there are if they are
fighting against a closed case. You wouldn't use a window fan with
the window closed would you? The other big factor is the hassle of
having to return mail order items and the restocking charges if
the product is not satisfactory. Much better to research until you
are certain what you want, then to order something that may or may
not meet your needs, imo. Same reason I do not do trial and error
software, nor trial and error pc fixes. Usually winds up costing
you more in time and money in the long run. But you're right, I do
tend to overdo it sometimes.
 
I never buy anything unless I know what I'm
buying, especially something as important as
a component that might play a role in HD longevity.
Click to expand...

You arent risking much with a drive carrier where its easy to
see the drive SMART temperature and see how well its working.

And count the fans so you know that it will survive a single fan failure etc.
I really don't think the reviews I read were drivel. The drivel
review are the ones that say how great a product is with no
criticism-those are usually the ones that are bought and paid
for by the mfg. It is the ones that criticize that I pay attention
to because they are usually more accurate, though not always.
It is not the cost of these racks that is important, it is also the
labor involved and the risk that a poorly designed product to the
hdd. On the surface the 3 fan model seems to be the logical
choice, but others have said the bottom fan model cools best.
Click to expand...

But can be a problem if the one fan fails and you dont notice.
Again, doesn't matter how many fans there
are if they are fighting against a closed case.
Click to expand...

But easy to see if the drive temp is acceptible.
You wouldn't use a window fan with the window closed
would you? The other big factor is the hassle of having
to return mail order items and the restocking charges if
the product is not satisfactory. Much better to research
until you are certain what you want, then to order
something that may or may not meet your needs, imo.
Click to expand...

There are limits tho with something that cheap.
Same reason I do not do trial and error software,
nor trial and error pc fixes. Usually winds up costing
you more in time and money in the long run. But
you're right, I do tend to overdo it sometimes.
Click to expand...

Yep, make more sense to select a known quality brand
which has had good reviews, with the number of fans
you require and see how well it works in your system.
 
inquiringmind said:
I never buy anything unless I know what I'm buying, [....]
Click to expand...

You'll never know enough to buy because no one
reviewer has reviewed all the options you're considering.
Just buy one for $24 like I said, and then inspect it instead
of just looking at pictures and guessing the rest. You'll
see that the air does have somewhere to go. Then install
it and run a SMART test for temperature range. Then you'll
know far more than you'll ever know from reading reviews
on products that have been installed in someone else's
PC than your own. And you might even come to trust
your own judgement.

*TimDaniels*
 
BTW, InquiringMind, I find that the sound of one sole
fan working and not working is quite apparent. In the
case of the bottom fan, it's not the sound of whining
fan blades, it's the sound of the whooshing air entering
the front of the tray that I notice when the mobile tray
is powered up versus when it's not powered. If there
were to be two front fans, I suspect that the difference
between one fan working and two fans working wouldn't
be as apparent. In that regard, having one big bottom
fan would actually be safer than having 2 or 3 little axial
fans because you'd be more likely to notice the failure
of a fan without having to run a SMART test.

*TimDaniels*
 
Timothy Daniels said:
BTW, InquiringMind, I find that the sound of one sole
fan working and not working is quite apparent. In the
case of the bottom fan, it's not the sound of whining
fan blades, it's the sound of the whooshing air entering
the front of the tray that I notice when the mobile tray
is powered up versus when it's not powered. If there
were to be two front fans, I suspect that the difference
between one fan working and two fans working wouldn't
be as apparent. In that regard, having one big bottom
fan would actually be safer than having 2 or 3 little axial
fans because you'd be more likely to notice the failure
of a fan without having to run a SMART test.
Click to expand...

It makes a lot more sense to automate failure detection,
essentially because nothing else can do anything useful
if the fan fails when you arent near the PC.

And that should obviously be integrated failure detection
which involves checking the other fans as well with a decent
system to handle what to do on fan failure with any of the fans.

And I'm sick to death of noisy systems as well. Just
another reason for not using removable drive bays at all.
 
Back
Top