Just trying to clarify something about RAM and 64-bit.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brian V
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B

Brian V

I'v asked a lot of questions about my pc and have gotten a lot of responses.
I think this should be the last one in this regard. I have read some info and
it seems to be a bit unclear to me. I may not be specific enough, and I am
happy with what answers I got so far. I hate to beat this topic to death.
Here goes.

My motherboard is a EM61SM/EM61PM. In the manual it says it has 4Gb capacity
with RAM. On crucial.com it says 4Gb. In PcWizard, an Acer application and I
think the DirectX programs that scan the hardware: They say my mobo can
actually take 12Gb or RAM.

I understand that a 32-bit OS only recognizes 4Gb, but it doesn't/can't
recognize all of it, usually 3Gb and something.

People keep telling me: to fully utilize the RAM in my system, I should
switch to 64-bit. Now I don't care if I went with Windows Vista or 7. The
only thing I am unclear of is: Would a 64-bit platform recognize the 12Gb
limit? Or just the 4Gb? From the posts I have gotten back, the web-pages
given and the web-pages I found myself: Nothing has really said. Or the reply
has said I can get the 4Gb. Nothing is really mentioned about this
discrepency. If it was, I missed it.

In my BIOS, it shows something about 4Gb. I assume that is what the mobo and
BIOS communicate. But is the OS communicating the 4GB to the BIOS? If so,
does that mean a 64-bit OS may potentially communicate the apparent 12Gb
limit of RAM?

Is this related to overclocking? I do not intend to overclock. It appears to
have to be too elaborate and potentially dangerous. I plan on not dealing
with that. But would like to know about it's potential relation to this
situation.

Ideally, if my motherboard can handle such a high number of RAM, I should be
able to access, it. Right? But if this is something typically done with mobos
and other hardware: to protect the components, a limitation of somesort or as
a scam or whatever: I just want to know.

Thank you.
 
Brian V said:
I'v asked a lot of questions about my pc and have gotten a lot of
responses.
I think this should be the last one in this regard. I have read some info
and
it seems to be a bit unclear to me. I may not be specific enough, and I am
happy with what answers I got so far. I hate to beat this topic to death.
Here goes.

My motherboard is a EM61SM/EM61PM. In the manual it says it has 4Gb
capacity
with RAM. On crucial.com it says 4Gb. In PcWizard, an Acer application and
I
think the DirectX programs that scan the hardware: They say my mobo can
actually take 12Gb or RAM.

I understand that a 32-bit OS only recognizes 4Gb, but it doesn't/can't
recognize all of it, usually 3Gb and something.

People keep telling me: to fully utilize the RAM in my system, I should
switch to 64-bit. Now I don't care if I went with Windows Vista or 7. The
only thing I am unclear of is: Would a 64-bit platform recognize the 12Gb
limit? Or just the 4Gb? From the posts I have gotten back, the web-pages
given and the web-pages I found myself: Nothing has really said. Or the
reply
has said I can get the 4Gb. Nothing is really mentioned about this
discrepency. If it was, I missed it.

In my BIOS, it shows something about 4Gb. I assume that is what the mobo
and
BIOS communicate. But is the OS communicating the 4GB to the BIOS? If so,
does that mean a 64-bit OS may potentially communicate the apparent 12Gb
limit of RAM?

Is this related to overclocking? I do not intend to overclock. It appears
to
have to be too elaborate and potentially dangerous. I plan on not dealing
with that. But would like to know about it's potential relation to this
situation.

Ideally, if my motherboard can handle such a high number of RAM, I should
be
able to access, it. Right? But if this is something typically done with
mobos
and other hardware: to protect the components, a limitation of somesort or
as
a scam or whatever: I just want to know.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Depending on your system, here's what you can get:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Aspire T180

or http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Aspire E380

These seem to be the 2 most popular systems with that MB. So, no, a 64-bit
OS will not see more than the board itself will recognize. The diagnostic
programs you use may be recognizing a chipset that can, with the right
supporting chips, recognize 12GB, but the way your MB is constructed 4GB is
the limit.
Many PC and MB manufacturer's limit their max to 4GB for cost reasons. Since
a 32-bit OS can only see 4GB max, and most PC's ship with a 32-bit OS, why
waste money on something the majority of buyers isn't going to use?
 
Brian said:
I'v asked a lot of questions about my pc and have gotten a lot of responses.
I think this should be the last one in this regard. I have read some info and
it seems to be a bit unclear to me. I may not be specific enough, and I am
happy with what answers I got so far. I hate to beat this topic to death.
Here goes.

My motherboard is a EM61SM/EM61PM. In the manual it says it has 4Gb capacity
with RAM. On crucial.com it says 4Gb. In PcWizard, an Acer application and I
think the DirectX programs that scan the hardware: They say my mobo can
actually take 12Gb or RAM.

I understand that a 32-bit OS only recognizes 4Gb, but it doesn't/can't
recognize all of it, usually 3Gb and something.

People keep telling me: to fully utilize the RAM in my system, I should
switch to 64-bit. Now I don't care if I went with Windows Vista or 7. The
only thing I am unclear of is: Would a 64-bit platform recognize the 12Gb
limit? Or just the 4Gb? From the posts I have gotten back, the web-pages
given and the web-pages I found myself: Nothing has really said. Or the reply
has said I can get the 4Gb. Nothing is really mentioned about this
discrepency. If it was, I missed it.

In my BIOS, it shows something about 4Gb. I assume that is what the mobo and
BIOS communicate. But is the OS communicating the 4GB to the BIOS? If so,
does that mean a 64-bit OS may potentially communicate the apparent 12Gb
limit of RAM?

Is this related to overclocking? I do not intend to overclock. It appears to
have to be too elaborate and potentially dangerous. I plan on not dealing
with that. But would like to know about it's potential relation to this
situation.

Ideally, if my motherboard can handle such a high number of RAM, I should be
able to access, it. Right? But if this is something typically done with mobos
and other hardware: to protect the components, a limitation of somesort or as
a scam or whatever: I just want to know.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

To satisfy an inquiring mind, you must have deep pockets.

*******

I found another upgrade report here. At the top, it mentions the motherboard
is EM61SM/EM61PM, but other details about the computer may differ from yours.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/243570-30-upgrade

About 60% of the way down that web page, it says

"bennieblanco 07-11-2007 at 03:12:40 AM

ok guys. even the specs say it is pc2 4200 it end up being pc2 5300 so the ones
I purchased fit perfectly. the problem was BAD MEMORY SLOTS. I had to exchange
the computer , placed new memory and reads 4gigs. Even though Vista sees only
3313 I am happier than before"

So in that case, a replacement motherboard was able to see a 4x1GB configuration,
and the 32 bit OS reported about what you'd expect in terms of addressable
memory. I'm willing to bet the memory slots were not bad, and the difference
between the old motherboard and the replacement, is a different version of
BIOS onboard.

*******

As I explained in a previous post, in the case of this computer, your main
enemy is the BIOS that comes with the computer. The architecture is supportive
of large memory configurations. And that is why you are seeing reports of "12GB"
as being possible.

The thing that has to support the memory configuration, is the processor itself.
The memory controller and memory interfaces are on the processor, and not the
Northbridge. The processor determines the actual hardware limits, and AMD
processors like yours are known to support larger memory configurations.
The largest DDR2 sticks I know of, were 4GB ones, so that is likely to be
an upper limit per slot (in terms of what you could buy to test with).

Athlon64 X2 3800+ - revision F2, uses DDR2 RAM, socket AM2.
http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=63

AMD never admits to memory support quantity, in their advertising material.
Which makes determining the upper limit that much tougher. You need to
consult a document about "BIOS writer's guide" from the AMD site, to
get the information, and the document is not in "plain English". The problem
with the BIOS writer's guide, is mapping actual processor product info,
like "X2 3800+ rev F2", into an actual definitive statement about limits.

(Example of their incomplete advertising...)
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...on-processors-key-architectural-features.aspx

This is an example of an Asus motherboard from the same era, with socket AM2
and Geforce 6150. It supports 8GB total. So I think the platform and hardware
in your computer, is capable of supporting more. It is a matter of what
the BIOS does, when the memory is installed, that counts. If all the
computer will do is "beep" and not boot, then it doesn't matter
how many architecture documents I show you.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131014

*******

No matter who you are, Albert Einstein or Alfred E. Neuman, it all
eventually boils down to plugging in some memory and testing it.
You could always take it to a local computer shop and tell them
to "upgrade it to as much memory as it'll take" and that would
remove the need for you to buy, test, and return RAM in your
quest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_E._Neuman

Paul
 
Thank you everyone. Questions answered.

I looked on Acers site, and emailed them. There is another BIOS from 2008 I
believe. It's the one that pops up for my system. I'm thinking I will
eventually flash the BIOS. It's from the manufacturer. Microsoft apparently
supports those BIOS's. They will apparently still support my OEM - XP if I
flashed a BIOS. But if there are technical issues, I have to pay the fee to
Microsoft once everything is up and running.

Maybe that one would recognize more. I don't know. I can't get any technical
help, unless I pay a fee to Acer, warrenty is done and there is no Acer
forum. I found an Acer forum, but don't know if it's an official forum.

I havn't looked at the BIOS zip file. I don't even know where to put this
file. I don't think it is self-placing.

Anyone know where to find a BIOS too?....Windows folder? Program files?
Hidden files?

Can a person make a BIOS? Is this mapping out the stuff from AMD site you
speak of Paul? This would be programming. This is writing software, etc. That
isn't exactly what I want to do. So consulting that file, means mapping into
a definitive statement with coding. I just want to use the file from the
manufacturers site.

Flashing a BIOS: I was told by the microsoft rep that I'd need to re-enter
my product key. Does flashing BIOS's potentially tend to create problems? If
it's for a specific computer make and model, I don't see why I'd have to
contact Microsoft technical support and pay the fee to get everything going.
But maybe it's how OEM's work? The windows licensing situation?
 
Brian said:
Thank you everyone. Questions answered.

I looked on Acers site, and emailed them. There is another BIOS from 2008 I
believe. It's the one that pops up for my system. I'm thinking I will
eventually flash the BIOS. It's from the manufacturer. Microsoft apparently
supports those BIOS's. They will apparently still support my OEM - XP if I
flashed a BIOS. But if there are technical issues, I have to pay the fee to
Microsoft once everything is up and running.

Maybe that one would recognize more. I don't know. I can't get any technical
help, unless I pay a fee to Acer, warrenty is done and there is no Acer
forum. I found an Acer forum, but don't know if it's an official forum.

I havn't looked at the BIOS zip file. I don't even know where to put this
file. I don't think it is self-placing.

Anyone know where to find a BIOS too?....Windows folder? Program files?
Hidden files?

Can a person make a BIOS? Is this mapping out the stuff from AMD site you
speak of Paul? This would be programming. This is writing software, etc. That
isn't exactly what I want to do. So consulting that file, means mapping into
a definitive statement with coding. I just want to use the file from the
manufacturers site.

Flashing a BIOS: I was told by the microsoft rep that I'd need to re-enter
my product key. Does flashing BIOS's potentially tend to create problems? If
it's for a specific computer make and model, I don't see why I'd have to
contact Microsoft technical support and pay the fee to get everything going.
But maybe it's how OEM's work? The windows licensing situation?
Click to expand...

You need to consider the risks, before flashing a BIOS.

If the BIOS flash operation is halted half way through (say your power goes off
in the middle of doing it), then the computer will not be able to boot. At the
very least, you should have two computers at hand, since you'll need the
second computer to call for help, etc.

So the BIOS, when flash upgraded, must be 100% functional, or the computer
will be "bricked" and won't boot. You would then need to pull the BIOS flash
EEPROM from its socket and replace it with another one.

In terms of risk mitigation, the first thing you do, is check to see if the
BIOS chip is socketed. This is an example of a PLCC flash chip in a brown plastic
socket. The chip can be pulled from the socket, and then a new one can be plugged
in. In fact, there is nothing wrong with the flash chip itself - the removal
and replacement just allows a person to get a chip from somewhere, with good
programming inside. So pulling this out, is the equivalent of using a USB
pen drive, without the convenience. By getting a BIOS chip from somewhere, you're
circumventing the fact that the computer cannot boot any more.

http://www.badflash.com/images/new_IO_bios.jpg

There is a nice tool to aid in pulling the chip from the socket. RadioShack
still seems to carry it. It fits diagonally across the flash chip, with little
hooks on the end that fit under the corners of the chip, and gives a grip on
the chip so it can be pulled upwards. The chip must be pulled straight upwards,
to avoid bending the legs.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062619

I've pulled about a hundred PLCC chips from sockets at work, without any fancy
tool, so you don't absolutely need that tool. But you do need a thin sharp tool,
like some of the tools a dentist might have, to ease the chip out. The socket
grips the chip quite tightly, so it doesn't just fall out. That is why there
is a fancy tool to pull it out. To put the chip back in, you push it into
place with your thumb. Putting it back, is easier than pulling it.

A company that can provide new BIOS chips is badflash.com . But there have
been other companies on other continents, that can also do it for you. If I
wanted, I could also fix a bad flash at work, since we had a $5000+ programming
machine for them, but I never needed to do that with my own motherboards. It is
possible a mom&pop computer store could have a BIOS chip programmer, but since
the machines vary in cost ($100 for specialized one, $5000 for a machine that
will program just about anything), you cannot be guaranteed of finding someone
in town to do the work.

These are some considerations, for BIOS flashing:

1) Does the BIOS file have release notes ? What does the BIOS fix ? Why use
the BIOS, if you don't know what it fixes ? The new BIOS could in fact
have worse features than the original one.

2) What have other computer owners experienced with the BIOS file and
tools provided ? Did they manage to "brick" their computer by using
the provided file ? That gives you an idea what risk you're taking.
In fact, some tools and tool flows, have a 100% failure rate (due
to incompetence at the manufacturer). It is one thing, to have the
ordinary risk when flashing (maybe 1% failure rate), versus a problem
with the provided tools, that fails for everyone.

3) Is the BIOS chip socketed ? Does badflash.com carry blank EEPROMS with
your particular part number ? Getting PLCCs probably isn't that bad,
but some of the DIP EEPROM packages may be harder to find. You can also send
the original "bricked" BIOS chip to badflash.com and they can flash upgrade
that. But that means sending a package both ways. The chip can be programmed
thousands of times, so that isn't a problem.

4) In terms of flash procedures, some companies give a Windows flash tool.
I consider flashing from Windows, to be more risky than flashing from MSDOS.
I use an MSDOS boot floppy, and place the flashing tool on there. (Some
companies provide multiple flashing tools or options, which is why you
may be given more than one option for doing it.) Since my MSDOS floppy reads
FAT32 disks, I've also put flash files on the hard drive, and accessed them
from MSDOS.

5) The first thing to do, is backup or archive the existing BIOS image.
The flash tool should have an archiving option, if it is a good tool.
If the flash tool doesn't manage to complete the flash operation with
the new file, then, *without* rebooting the computer, you immediately
flash upgrade using the archived file. *Never* push the reset button
on the computer, or do a control-alt-delete restart, without the flash
tool saying the BIOS upgrade is "100% complete". Because, as soon as
you hit reset, if the BIOS image isn't good, the computer is then bricked.

If the flash upgrade fails, then consider (3) above. You can contact badflash.com
or any company that programs BIOS chips on your continent, and get them to fix
your BIOS chip for you. That may involve them shipping you a new one. Or you
can ship your old chip to the company and have them reprogram the original chip
to your specifications. The BIOS file you give them, must be "in the open", as
there are some pretty crazy BIOS tools out there, and it is just possible they
won't be able to extract the BIOS image from the file, to do the programming.
So, to make their job easier, you want to give them a plain BIOS file (power_of_two
size, like 262144 or 524288 bytes).

Anyway, that is a quick review of BIOS flashing and some considerations.

My recommendation to you would be:

1) Buy your new memory. (Say, add a pair of matched DIMMs, to the pair
of DIMMS you're currently using.) Try the new memory. If it is all
detected and works, then you're done. No need to touch the BIOS chip.

2) If any memory over 2GB causes "beeps", then flash the BIOS (using a
stable memory configuration). But only flash the BIOS, if the BIOS chip
is socketed. At least then, all it will cost you, is the $25 to $30 for
a new chip. If the BIOS chip is soldered directly to the motherboard,
you'll need someone who can solder (radio/tv repair shop), to replace it.

This is an example of a BIOS chip, soldered directly to the motherboard. The
manufacturer saves some pennies, by not having to put a brown socket on the
motherboard. Getting this off, with home soldering tools, can be a chore.
Much cursing and swearing.

http://www.badflash.com/images/plcc.jpg

HTH,
Paul
 
Brian said:
Thank you everyone. Questions answered.

I looked on Acers site, and emailed them. There is another BIOS from
2008 I believe. It's the one that pops up for my system. I'm thinking
I will eventually flash the BIOS.
Click to expand...

Unless you have a compelling reason, you should most certainly *not*
flash the BIOS! As Paul stated, something could go wrong, resulting in
an unbootable PC! Why do you believe you will eventually do this?
It's from the manufacturer.
Microsoft apparently supports those BIOS's.
Click to expand...

Microsoft doesn't even enter the equation!

PCs do not care what operating system is installed. Could be Windows XP.
Could be Linux Ubuntu. Could be no hard drive at all! (That is, you
could use a live CD that contains an OS like Knoppix or Ubuntu or even
something like UBCD4Win.) The BIOS (Basic Input/Output System) is
software that resides on a chip on your motherboard that allows your PC
to boot up. For more info:

http://www.wimsbios.com/faq/whatisaflashbios.jsp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS

Even if you have Windows XP installed, the BIOS runs first and therefore
before (and independently of) Windows.
They will apparently
still support my OEM - XP if I flashed a BIOS. But if there are
technical issues, I have to pay the fee to Microsoft once everything
is up and running.
Click to expand...

Don't flash the BIOS if there is no need to do so!
Maybe that one would recognize more. I don't know. I can't get any
technical help, unless I pay a fee to Acer, warrenty is done and
there is no Acer forum. I found an Acer forum, but don't know if it's
an official forum.
Click to expand...

I am aware you have made tons of posts lately. :-) I can't keep track of
them all, but I assume you are trying to figure out if there is a way to
upgrade to a 64-bit OS in order to use more than 4GB of RAM. I will
defer to Paul and others in this matter.

However, my advice to you is to leave well enough alone. That is, as
long as you keep this PC, simply continue to use Windows XP on it, which
is a very good OS. Furthermore, it is in the "Exteneded Support" phase,
which will last another four years.

Your next PC can have 64-bit architecture and Windows 7 and loads of
RAM.

Brian, how do you use your PC? Unless you do work that requires loads of
RAM (e.g., image or video editing on a professional or near-professional
level), you do *not* need any more RAM than you currently have. Just
something to consider...
I havn't looked at the BIOS zip file. I don't even know where to put
this file. I don't think it is self-placing.
Click to expand...

Again, I urge you *not* to do this. FWIW, I needed to do this once. I
placed it on a floppy (yes, my PC has a floppy drive). I configured my
PC to boot off this floppy and I upgraded my BIOS this way. More info
(for educational purposes):

http://freepctech.com/pc/001/006.shtml
Anyone know where to find a BIOS too?....Windows folder? Program
files? Hidden files?
Click to expand...

Again, the BIOS has *nothing* to do with Windows. You would need to
download the latest version from the Web site of the motherboard
manufacturer. Then you would need to create a bootable floppy from it.
It has *nothing* to do with C: drive or hidden files, etc. I hope this
is beginning to make more sense to you.
Can a person make a BIOS? Is this mapping out the stuff from AMD site
you speak of Paul? This would be programming. This is writing
software, etc. That isn't exactly what I want to do. So consulting
that file, means mapping into a definitive statement with coding. I
just want to use the file from the manufacturers site.

Flashing a BIOS: I was told by the microsoft rep that I'd need to
re-enter my product key. Does flashing BIOS's potentially tend to
create problems?
Yes!!!!!

If it's for a specific computer make and model, I
don't see why I'd have to contact Microsoft technical support and pay
the fee to get everything going. But maybe it's how OEM's work? The
windows licensing situation?
Click to expand...

*Nothing* to do with Windows at all. :-)
 
Well, it's not a necessity to flash the BIOS or do much of anything else. Ok,
I don't have to. I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm doing some changes, and
there are certain things some people seem to be sucessful at, and some
precautions I should take.

These questions are just that.

The system is fine, I can change some other things on here.

Why would the manufacturer put an updated BIOS on their site, though? I
would assume that it is there to "upgrade" your computer and keep it a bit
more current. In general I'm wondering, yes I understand that nodoby can
really explain it. When would people/programers need to do this though?
 
And do you have to put the BIOS onto a diskette? Can it be done by usb,
dvd-rom or anything else? Are disks more stable in theis context?
 
Usage of pc: Not professional or for work. I am on it for art/creativity
fairly heavily. Some programs are in the earlier stages. But I am on more of
an intermediate level with others. I have been messing around/looking at the
video software I have. Most can run well on what I have. The problems I can
infer and see right now, if/when I get heavily into some of these programs is
what I am trying to prepare for. If certain people ask me to work on their
stuff, I don't see the problem. i am not advertising though. I still have
work to do, if I get it out for work. :-)

Eg: With making/recording music. I can make a song from start to finish. I
am getting better at the mastering of the whole song. I can do it, but to get
good takes a lot of years. Now the mroe tweaking I do the more it's lagging
the system. I do each individual sound. and thent he whole thing. I'm getting
better and the system is slowing down. More RAM will help, I'll get it in the
short term. But I can only put so much in there since my system cannot handle
"an orchestra". Most songs do not require "an orchestra", but you make a few.
And you understand how to make "an orchestra", if that is your thing. Because
that could be your legacy or that is the one or two 7-12 minute tracks that
are big.......You go big or you go home.......Too much at once is bad. You
learn to mix it all properly and give each sound it's place. Sometimes I just
have to export it, since it will run choppy. I use some midi, but I like
dealing with audio files (usually .wav). They are more demanding on the
computer, but certain editing features are only available in non-midi. So I
have to use heavy audio files with my current set-up.

Having all the files on the hard-drive an dnot the dvd helps speed
everything up. The lag can be bad with dvd's. Too choppy and unrealistic for
playback.

With the music example above, I will apply it to the future with video
editing. It's even bigger most times. Add in all those effects, transitions
and rendering. I'm not professional, but I am trying to learn....So I'm
trying to figure out how far I can go. AVCHD files (hi-def) need lots, going
in as those files, or you have to compress them, and export the high quality
as you like. I need to avoid compressing as much as possible. But PLENTY of
professionals compress imports and export the high quality as required.

I gotta say I checked Corel Draw 13 or 14 (the newest one out on corel.com).
The imaging programs don't seem to take up as much as music or video. But I
don't know fully yet. That is later.
 
Brian V said:
And do you have to put the BIOS onto a diskette? Can it be done by usb,
dvd-rom or anything else? Are disks more stable in theis context?
Click to expand...

It can be done from within Windows, depending on the BIOS manufacturer and
the method they allow.

I'll tell you a true story, and you decide if you want to risk it or not:

I've been flashing my BIOS for quite a long time now, but only when the new
BIOS had a new addition that I needed for what I was wanting to do. Most of
them involved updating to a faster CPU, and needing a new BIOS to be able to
do it. I've done probably 15-20 boards over the years without a hitch.

About two years ago, I was looking to put a faster AMD in my ASUS MB, and
needed the newer BIOS in order for it to be recognized correctly. I updated
from rev11.5 to rev12.3 (let's say) with no problem. But I figured I'd go
ahead and bring it up to rev14.1 just in case I needed its properties
sometime in the future, even though all I needed at the moment was rev12.3.
After the first flash to 12.3, I had no problems bringing the PC back up,
and having it recognize the new CPU. After a couple of days of making sure
everything was fine, I went ahead and flashed to rev14.1. I followed the
same method as before, backing up my old BIOS before proceeding, shutting
down my AV and firewall, etc. All went well until I rebooted. Uh-oh, no
boot. It got to the POST screen and went no further. I tried clearing the
CMOS by pulling the battery- no joy. Then I remembered that ASUS has a
"Crash-Free BIOS," meaning that I could (supposedly) boot from the original
driver CD, and write the original BIOS back to the board. I must have tried
booting and re-flashing from the CD 4 or 5 times with no success whatsoever.
I was very bummed, believe me. Then when I was about to say screw it and buy
a new board, the CD "took" and I was able to recover back to rev11.5, which
was what came with it originally. I then flashed to 12.3 again with no
problem and stayed there.

Now, I'm not condoning or urging anyone to flash their BIOS, but if it's
necessary for an upgrade you feel you need, then you'll have to decide
whether you want to try it or not, or to let a "pro" attempt it, with no
guarantee that it'll work for him either. Is the upgrade worth the risk?
Your decision. If everything is running well right now, then it may not be
worth the risk of having to buy a new board, or sending your board off to
the manufacturer to fix (which would probably be weeks to do, and cost near
as much as a new board).

Like I said, I had done a number of flashes with no problems at all, but the
one flash that went bad kinda cured me of doing it again any time soon. But
if I have to, I will try again, and odds are, won't have any problems. But
the doubt is there now. . .
 
Yes 64 bit machine will recognize more than 4 GB. The systems maker are
defrauding its customers by saying a 32 bit machine can recognize 4 GB (in
fact one vendor in London was telling a customer that its 32 bit machines
can recognize 8 GB ram!).

Also please make sure that the vendor is not trying to fool you to make you
buy more rams for your 32 bit machines because even if you can fit extra
memory (I doubt you can but just in case ....) the Windows OS won't
recognize it and very likely to keep crashing.

I don't know why HP keeps selling 32 bit machines with more than 4 GB memory
capacity! Mind boggles!

hth
 
Brian V said:
Usage of pc: Not professional or for work. I am on it for art/creativity
fairly heavily. Some programs are in the earlier stages. But I am on more
of
an intermediate level with others. I have been messing around/looking at
the
video software I have. Most can run well on what I have. The problems I
can
infer and see right now, if/when I get heavily into some of these programs
is
what I am trying to prepare for. If certain people ask me to work on their
stuff, I don't see the problem. i am not advertising though. I still have
work to do, if I get it out for work. :-)

Eg: With making/recording music. I can make a song from start to finish. I
am getting better at the mastering of the whole song. I can do it, but to
get
good takes a lot of years. Now the mroe tweaking I do the more it's
lagging
the system. I do each individual sound. and thent he whole thing. I'm
getting
better and the system is slowing down. More RAM will help, I'll get it in
the
short term. But I can only put so much in there since my system cannot
handle
"an orchestra". Most songs do not require "an orchestra", but you make a
few.
And you understand how to make "an orchestra", if that is your thing.
Because
that could be your legacy or that is the one or two 7-12 minute tracks
that
are big.......You go big or you go home.......Too much at once is bad. You
learn to mix it all properly and give each sound it's place. Sometimes I
just
have to export it, since it will run choppy. I use some midi, but I like
dealing with audio files (usually .wav). They are more demanding on the
computer, but certain editing features are only available in non-midi. So
I
have to use heavy audio files with my current set-up.

Having all the files on the hard-drive an dnot the dvd helps speed
everything up. The lag can be bad with dvd's. Too choppy and unrealistic
for
playback.

With the music example above, I will apply it to the future with video
editing. It's even bigger most times. Add in all those effects,
transitions
and rendering. I'm not professional, but I am trying to learn....So I'm
trying to figure out how far I can go. AVCHD files (hi-def) need lots,
going
in as those files, or you have to compress them, and export the high
quality
as you like. I need to avoid compressing as much as possible. But PLENTY
of
professionals compress imports and export the high quality as required.

I gotta say I checked Corel Draw 13 or 14 (the newest one out on
corel.com).
The imaging programs don't seem to take up as much as music or video. But
I
don't know fully yet. That is later.
Click to expand...

Another thing you need to consider is if you go to a 64-bit OS, will the
program(s) you are using now run in it? If you're not going to upgrade to a
64-bit version of these programs, there's no real advantage to upgrading to
a 64-bit OS. A 32-bit program will still run as a 32-bit program no matter
what OS you use.
 
Brian said:
Why would the manufacturer put an updated BIOS on their site, though?
Click to expand...

To fix an old problem or to add new functionality. If there was a
compelling reason to update your particular BIOS, you would already
know. If not, then, as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :-)
 
SC said:
It can be done from within Windows, depending on the BIOS
manufacturer and the method they allow.
Click to expand...

True. But I have read reports where people have hosed their systems
using an interface while running Windows. Depends on the BIOS, I
suppose.

Again, to Brian, although it is possible to do this while running
Windows, it still has nothing to with Windows, per se.

And yes, it is possible to create a bootable CD instead of a bootable
floppy.
I'll tell you a true story, and you decide if you want to risk it or
not:
I've been flashing my BIOS for quite a long time now, but only when
the new BIOS had a new addition that I needed for what I was wanting
to do. Most of them involved updating to a faster CPU, and needing a
new BIOS to be able to do it. I've done probably 15-20 boards over
the years without a hitch.
About two years ago, I was looking to put a faster AMD in my ASUS MB,
and needed the newer BIOS in order for it to be recognized correctly.
I updated from rev11.5 to rev12.3 (let's say) with no problem. But I
figured I'd go ahead and bring it up to rev14.1 just in case I needed
its properties sometime in the future, even though all I needed at
the moment was rev12.3. After the first flash to 12.3, I had no
problems bringing the PC back up, and having it recognize the new
CPU. After a couple of days of making sure everything was fine, I
went ahead and flashed to rev14.1. I followed the same method as
before, backing up my old BIOS before proceeding, shutting down my AV
and firewall, etc. All went well until I rebooted. Uh-oh, no boot. It
got to the POST screen and went no further. I tried clearing the CMOS
by pulling the battery- no joy. Then I remembered that ASUS has a
"Crash-Free BIOS," meaning that I could (supposedly) boot from the
original driver CD, and write the original BIOS back to the board. I
must have tried booting and re-flashing from the CD 4 or 5 times with
no success whatsoever. I was very bummed, believe me. Then when I was
about to say screw it and buy a new board, the CD "took" and I was
able to recover back to rev11.5, which was what came with it
originally. I then flashed to 12.3 again with no problem and stayed
there.
Now, I'm not condoning or urging anyone to flash their BIOS, but if
it's necessary for an upgrade you feel you need, then you'll have to
decide whether you want to try it or not, or to let a "pro" attempt
it, with no guarantee that it'll work for him either. Is the upgrade
worth the risk? Your decision. If everything is running well right
now, then it may not be worth the risk of having to buy a new board,
or sending your board off to the manufacturer to fix (which would
probably be weeks to do, and cost near as much as a new board).

Like I said, I had done a number of flashes with no problems at all,
but the one flash that went bad kinda cured me of doing it again any
time soon. But if I have to, I will try again, and odds are, won't
have any problems. But the doubt is there now. . .
Click to expand...

Once bitten, twice shy. ;-)
 
Daave said:
To fix an old problem or to add new functionality. If there was a
compelling reason to update your particular BIOS, you would already know.
If not, then, as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :-)
Click to expand...
Unless you're a mechanical engineer, in which case it's, "If it ain't broke,
redesign it!" :-)
 
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