I've downloaded the manual but....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rich
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R

Rich

.... I still am not understanding how to set up the P4C800-E Dlx with 3 IDE
UATA HDDs. I have two 80Gb WDs that I'd like to stripe as my system drive.
I also have a third 80Gb WD that I'd like to use as a backup/data drive. Do
I need UATA to SATA adapters and then use the SATA connectors or can I use
an IDE port? It looks like there's one IDE port available for RAID but the
instructions are confusing. Can you run a RAID setup using only one
channel?

As far as drive imaging is concerned. Is there a program such as Drive
Image or Ghost that can accurately make and restore an image of a striped
array?

TIA
Rich
 
"Rich" said:
... I still am not understanding how to set up the P4C800-E Dlx with 3 IDE
UATA HDDs. I have two 80Gb WDs that I'd like to stripe as my system drive.
I also have a third 80Gb WD that I'd like to use as a backup/data drive. Do
I need UATA to SATA adapters and then use the SATA connectors or can I use
an IDE port? It looks like there's one IDE port available for RAID but the
instructions are confusing. Can you run a RAID setup using only one
channel?

As far as drive imaging is concerned. Is there a program such as Drive
Image or Ghost that can accurately make and restore an image of a striped
array?

TIA
Rich
Click to expand...

A review I read, said you can have up to 10 drives on the board,
and I think that means you can have two IDE on the Promise IDE
(RAID) connector. But that is not a very intelligent configuration,
as if you stripe on the one cable, the blocks of data will end up
interleaved on the same cable. It just means you'll take a performance
hit. Normally, you'd want two cables, and one drive per cable, so
both cables could transfer data simultaneously.

You could also look for PATA to SATA adapters, but read up on the
various brands, as some of the early ones were not very good.
Two of those might be marginally cheaper than buying a brand new
separate IDE RAID card.

As for software imaging tools, any of the ones that toss you into
DOS land, will require a suitable driver. I don't know any more about
it than that.

HTH,
Paul
 
Rich said:
... I still am not understanding how to set up the P4C800-E Dlx with 3 IDE
UATA HDDs. I have two 80Gb WDs that I'd like to stripe as my system drive.
I also have a third 80Gb WD that I'd like to use as a backup/data drive. Do
I need UATA to SATA adapters and then use the SATA connectors or can I use
an IDE port? It looks like there's one IDE port available for RAID but the
instructions are confusing. Can you run a RAID setup using only one
channel?

As far as drive imaging is concerned. Is there a program such as Drive
Image or Ghost that can accurately make and restore an image of a striped
array?

TIA
Rich
Click to expand...

You can set up a RAID array with two SATA
using the SATA_RAID connectors and two
IDE drives on the PRI_RAID connector.
You can setup a RAID using a single drive.
Its not a RAID technically but when you create
the array just add a single drive.
You could create with your two drives on the
PRI_RAID connector, but I found that to be slow
for RAID. The best would be one drive as master
on the PRI_RAID connector and one on one of the
SATA_RAID connectors or two drives, one on
each of the SATA_RAID connectors.
And yes you would need SATA to PATA adaptors
to use your two drives on the SATA ports.

Jim Manning
 
Personally I think you are bonkers doing raid 0 (stripe) on a system drive.
The probability of a system failure due to disc will be 2 x the probability
of a single disc failure.

A while back, every man and his dog was installing raid 0 for system, then
the sad stories started coming in...

For the dosh you are considering spending on SATA / PATA converters, use a
single IDE disc for system, and stripe your data (if thats where you want
performance) or look at a RAID controller that does exactly what you want
without the adapters, or some other configuration.

With HDD prices as they are now, I would err on the side of more discs, raid
1 for system, definitely not raid 0 for system, raid 0 only for scratch
files (if you say video edit)... use some imagination and price out the
options with some resilience - particularly if you use the system to earn a
living.

- Tim
 
your points here, (and in other posts), are well taken. I understand your
reluctance, dare I say it, even disdain for striping a system drive. I
thought however the purpose of striping was to make the system faster. Am I
wrong? My other issue is that I already own three brand new WD 80Gb 7200rpm
8Mb HDDs due to fortunate circumstances that I'd like to use in this system.
I'd prefer not to have to run out and purchase two new SATA drives if I
don't have to. If I won't get good performance by using the PRI_RAID then
I'll probably do a traditional setup using one IDE disk for the system and
the second as a backup/data disk. I want to ultimately connect 5-6 IDE
devices to this system. A DVD-ROM, a CD-RW, a LS-120, and 2-3 HDDs
depending on which configuration I ultimately use.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Rich
--
Return address modified for spam protection. Remove windy to reply.
Tim said:
Personally I think you are bonkers doing raid 0 (stripe) on a system drive.
The probability of a system failure due to disc will be 2 x the probability
of a single disc failure.

A while back, every man and his dog was installing raid 0 for system, then
the sad stories started coming in...

For the dosh you are considering spending on SATA / PATA converters, use a
single IDE disc for system, and stripe your data (if thats where you want
performance) or look at a RAID controller that does exactly what you want
without the adapters, or some other configuration.

With HDD prices as they are now, I would err on the side of more discs, raid
1 for system, definitely not raid 0 for system, raid 0 only for scratch
files (if you say video edit)... use some imagination and price out the
options with some resilience - particularly if you use the system to earn a
living.

- Tim
Click to expand...
 
Personally I don't see anything wrong with stripping
the system drive. I can format my stripped C drive
and have my backup image loaded back on in
about 40 minutes. Besides I haven't had a drive go
bad in years.

Jim Manning

Rich said:
your points here, (and in other posts), are well taken. I understand your
reluctance, dare I say it, even disdain for striping a system drive. I
thought however the purpose of striping was to make the system faster. Am I
wrong? My other issue is that I already own three brand new WD 80Gb 7200rpm
8Mb HDDs due to fortunate circumstances that I'd like to use in this system.
I'd prefer not to have to run out and purchase two new SATA drives if I
don't have to. If I won't get good performance by using the PRI_RAID then
I'll probably do a traditional setup using one IDE disk for the system and
the second as a backup/data disk. I want to ultimately connect 5-6 IDE
devices to this system. A DVD-ROM, a CD-RW, a LS-120, and 2-3 HDDs
depending on which configuration I ultimately use.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Rich
--
Return address modified for spam protection. Remove windy to reply.
Personally I think you are bonkers doing raid 0 (stripe) on a system drive.
The probability of a system failure due to disc will be 2 x the probability
of a single disc failure.

A while back, every man and his dog was installing raid 0 for system, then
the sad stories started coming in...

For the dosh you are considering spending on SATA / PATA converters, use a
single IDE disc for system, and stripe your data (if thats where you want
performance) or look at a RAID controller that does exactly what you want
without the adapters, or some other configuration.

With HDD prices as they are now, I would err on the side of more discs, raid
1 for system, definitely not raid 0 for system, raid 0 only for scratch
files (if you say video edit)... use some imagination and price out the
options with some resilience - particularly if you use the system to
Click to expand...
earn
Click to expand...
 
Well, the point may be moot now. I was able to take 2 of the new WD ATA
drives and trade them for identical WD SATA drives at a local computer shop.
I'll be able to use the SATA controllers after all. More info please on
setting up your system drive as RAID, pro/con. Also, any info on successful
drive imaging of said configuration.

Rich
 
One last reiteration.

The reason why I always jump up and down about raid 0, and in particular
raid 0 for system drives is that - as said before - raid 0 is inherently
less resilient, sp more susceptible to disc failure than either a single
disc drive (2 times), or any other form of raid (more than 2 times).

Yes, you do get performance improvements: on a system disc you may notice
this at boot up and possibly minor improvements at other times (from the
system perspective). Apart from that you may not experience a significant
increase in performance. The only substantial improvement will be if you are
using an application such as video editing that benefits greatly from high
sustained disc sequential read performance. Most commercial applications
including most games will have only marginal benefit.

It is also a matter of eggs in baskets. Since the resilience of a raid 0
drive is less than that of a single drive, if you put your system and all
other files on the one raid 0 disc, then sooner or later (it is 100%
inevitable since everything man makes turns to dust) you will have to
rebuild. Rebuilding a data drive is a lot easier than a system drive.
Rebuilding a system drive that contains only system is easier than
rebuilding a combined system and data drive.

I *always* take the minimalist approach: install only what I need, run a
secure system (IE firewall, antivirus etc), have all issue software at hand
with license keys, have good systematic backups, and *know* how to reinstall
everything at the drop of the hat.

In case you hadn't noticed I earn my living on computers, so down time =
money = stress = loss of leisure time. Consequently stability is more
important than performance, as is resilience. Where are these 6GHz
machines - they are overdue!

So, congrats on getting SATA drives - that is a coup and has saved mountains
of dosh.

- Tim



Rich said:
Well, the point may be moot now. I was able to take 2 of the new WD ATA
drives and trade them for identical WD SATA drives at a local computer shop.
I'll be able to use the SATA controllers after all. More info please on
setting up your system drive as RAID, pro/con. Also, any info on successful
drive imaging of said configuration.

Rich
Click to expand...
 
Rich said:
Well, the point may be moot now. I was able to take 2 of the new WD ATA
drives and trade them for identical WD SATA drives at a local computer shop.
I'll be able to use the SATA controllers after all. More info please on
setting up your system drive as RAID, pro/con. Also, any info on successful
drive imaging of said configuration.

Rich



--
Click to expand...

Acronis true image works for me. One thing I don't
like is I can't get it to write directly to CD-R like
ghost can, but ghost won't work with RAID.
 
Depending on your computer for a living makes
a difference. If I did then I might think twice about
using RAID 0 on my system drive. Maybe I wouldn't
over clock either. But the main thing to me is having
a good recent backup.

Tim said:
One last reiteration.

The reason why I always jump up and down about raid 0, and in particular
raid 0 for system drives is that - as said before - raid 0 is inherently
less resilient, sp more susceptible to disc failure than either a single
disc drive (2 times), or any other form of raid (more than 2 times).

Yes, you do get performance improvements: on a system disc you may notice
this at boot up and possibly minor improvements at other times (from the
system perspective). Apart from that you may not experience a significant
increase in performance. The only substantial improvement will be if you are
using an application such as video editing that benefits greatly from high
sustained disc sequential read performance. Most commercial applications
including most games will have only marginal benefit.

It is also a matter of eggs in baskets. Since the resilience of a raid 0
drive is less than that of a single drive, if you put your system and all
other files on the one raid 0 disc, then sooner or later (it is 100%
inevitable since everything man makes turns to dust) you will have to
rebuild. Rebuilding a data drive is a lot easier than a system drive.
Rebuilding a system drive that contains only system is easier than
rebuilding a combined system and data drive.

I *always* take the minimalist approach: install only what I need, run a
secure system (IE firewall, antivirus etc), have all issue software at hand
with license keys, have good systematic backups, and *know* how to reinstall
everything at the drop of the hat.

In case you hadn't noticed I earn my living on computers, so down time =
money = stress = loss of leisure time. Consequently stability is more
important than performance, as is resilience. Where are these 6GHz
machines - they are overdue!

So, congrats on getting SATA drives - that is a coup and has saved mountains
of dosh.

- Tim
Click to expand...
 
So what do you do then? Write the image to a second HDD? I like
DriveImage's ability to write directly to CD-R as well but I don't know if
it'll do RAID. I'll have to look into it further.

Rich
 
I bought a removable hard drive rack and stuck
a 200GB drive in it and use that for backups.
Sometimes I tell Acronis to split the backup up
and manually write the files to CD-R
 
Huh, didn't think of that. Have you been able to restore from the CD-Rs
yet? I wonder if there's some info that needs to be written in order for
that to work. I notice Acronis works within Windows. When you restore do
you boot to DOS? Do you create a boot disk within Acronis TI? How does it
work. DriveImage allows you to create a pair of bootable diskettes that
give you everything you need to make/restore images.

Rich
 
It asks if you want to create a boot CD when installed. To restore you boot
from the CD.
Or after installation you can create a secure zone
which is a hidden partition you can backup to.
Press F11 at boot acronis will load and you can
do a restore. I've used the CDs to restore with no
problems. I've also used the secure zone, but
like having the backup on media separate from
the drive I'm backing up.
One thing I noticed is when you do a restore acronis
restores the partition to the original size unlike ghost
where if you backed up an 80GB drive and restored
to a 120GB drive it would adjust to use the available
free space.

Jim Manning
 
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