I've always had HPDJ's but ...

[T i m]

Hi All,

After my first colour printer (Star LC10 <g>) I went to the brand new
HP Deskjet 500C (that cost over 350 gbp as a staff purchase (via a
mate) from HP!) and that served me very well for years. ;-)

I then bought another (better / faster) HP (again great service) and a
couple of years ago a 840C cheap as a 'refurb' (looked like new).

The problem is now I need two new carts and for the same money as the
'expensive' HP carts I can nearly buy a complete, new, Epson Stylus
C66 and that then uses *much* cheaper ink (4) carts .. however ....

I like the flat paper tray idea on my HP's (front rather than top
feed) and the way it just works when I want it to work, nomatter when
I last used it. It's also pretty quick off the mark, compared with the
dance routine the Epsons seem to go through when you ask them to
print?

So, (on a small budget) is an Epson C66 going to be able to step into
the shoes of the HPDJ 840c please (or are they 'chalk n cheese')?

I print the odd picture (but not as a photographer) and mainly print
web stuff / data / tech ref stuff (mainly black) and probably at least
once a week.

All the best and thanks for your time ...

T i m (UK)

 

[Bill]

The problem is now I need two new carts and for the same money as the
'expensive' HP carts I can nearly buy a complete, new, Epson Stylus
C66 and that then uses *much* cheaper ink (4) carts .. however ....

How do you figure the ink is cheaper?

People who see the cheap individual prices are "trigger-happy" thinking
they're getting a great deal.

But ink cartridge pricing can be quite misleading if you don't pay any
attention to the total costs. While a single colour ink cartridge may
appear to be cheaper, in practical use they are not.

For instance, the individual price of an Epson cartridge is lower, yet
the total cost of three or four is not. If you add up the price of the
four cartridges at a typical place like Staples for example, the cost is
$92+taxes in Canadian funds. Compare that to the cost of the two HP
cartridges, which is $83+taxes.

The page yield of the two systems is similar, which means costs are
actually similar.

I've found this applies to ANY of the printer manufacturers when it
comes to ink cartridge costs.

I like the flat paper tray idea on my HP's (front rather than top
feed) and the way it just works when I want it to work, nomatter when
I last used it. It's also pretty quick off the mark, compared with the
dance routine the Epsons seem to go through when you ask them to
print?

That's something I too like about the HP printers - the paper trays are
out front and hold paper without curling. It also keeps dust out of the
pickup rollers.

So, (on a small budget) is an Epson C66 going to be able to step into
the shoes of the HPDJ 840c please (or are they 'chalk n cheese')?

The only advantage the Epson will provide is better photos. But that
would be true of any newer model from any of the big four printer
companies.

For what it's worth, I replaced my dead Canon i850 with an HP Deskjet
6540. It's just as fast, prints slightly better, costs the same to
operate and print, and I know it'll print every time without having to
do cleaning cycles or other annoying tasks, even if it's been sitting
idle for weeks. And if there is any issue with the printheads, a new
cartridge will take care of it.

I print the odd picture (but not as a photographer) and mainly print
web stuff / data / tech ref stuff (mainly black) and probably at least
once a week.

If you don't care about improved photo quality, then perhaps sticking
with the 840c might be the best choice.

 

[mpx]

HP inkjets can be very inexpansive to run if you don't care about print
quality - you just need to refill cartridges yourself. So - you buy a new HP
printer, sell your new cartridges at internet auction site, and instead buy
used empty cartridges & bulk ink in big bottles. If you use bulk ink method
you will have costs of printing lower than most laser printers. But the
print quality will not be very high because HP heads are not designed to
last for so long. You also bother with refilling. Advantage of HP is that
you can use cheap inks without worrying about head damage - if these damage
head you just buy another empty cartridge at internet auction sites.

If you care about print quality and still want to pay reasonable amount of
money for inks you have to buy a Canon printer, and use it with quality
replacement cartridges. It is more comfortable way of using printer than
refilling HP, because all you have to do is to pop a new cartridge instead
of old one. Cartridges don't contain neither head nor chips that's why
replacement cartridges for Canon cost LESS than remanufactured cartridges
for HP or Epson. And you still can sell OEM inks that came with the printer
and get money for few replacement ones

Summary: If you want quality & comfort - Buy Canon and use it with quality
replacement cartridges. If you want low cost above all - use HP, buy empty
cartridges and refill them yourself with cheap ink.

 

[T i m]

How do you figure the ink is cheaper?

Hi Bill, well a colour cart for the HP would cost me around 26 gbp (in
PC World, 15 for a black) but I think I can get them for about 17 and
16 on the net. The 4 carts for the Epson about the same total. However
I believe the HP black cart holds 25ml whereas the Epson holds 13.
But, the HP colour is 23ml (that must be in total?) and is in one
lump?

People who see the cheap individual prices are "trigger-happy" thinking
they're getting a great deal.

Additionally I can get trade prices on Epson carts .. ?

But ink cartridge pricing can be quite misleading if you don't pay any
attention to the total costs. While a single colour ink cartridge may
appear to be cheaper, in practical use they are not.

Go on ..

For instance, the individual price of an Epson cartridge is lower, yet
the total cost of three or four is not. If you add up the price of the
four cartridges at a typical place like Staples for example, the cost is
$92+taxes in Canadian funds. Compare that to the cost of the two HP
cartridges, which is $83+taxes.

Ok, over here on the one site I went on an Epson Quad pack was about
the same price as the two HP ones.

The page yield of the two systems is similar, which means costs are
actually similar.

I suppose it depends how much colour you use .. especially the
proportions?

I've found this applies to ANY of the printer manufacturers when it
comes to ink cartridge costs.

Ok .. it *does* make sense ..

That's something I too like about the HP printers - the paper trays are
out front and hold paper without curling. It also keeps dust out of the
pickup rollers.

Indeed .. and I'm not sure if I'm going to regret going Epson but at
53 gbp for a C66 I think I'm going to give it a try?

The only advantage the Epson will provide is better photos. But that
would be true of any newer model from any of the big four printer
companies.

I don't have any complaints re the picture output from the 840c ..

For what it's worth, I replaced my dead Canon i850 with an HP Deskjet
6540. It's just as fast, prints slightly better, costs the same to
operate and print, and I know it'll print every time without having to
do cleaning cycles or other annoying tasks, even if it's been sitting
idle for weeks. And if there is any issue with the printheads, a new
cartridge will take care of it.


If you don't care about improved photo quality, then perhaps sticking
with the 840c might be the best choice.

Ah, there's an extra twist here .. the 840c has a 'fault' (little
paper guides have come off) and I have to had un-feed the paper
myself.

Oh well, if you subtract the value of a new set of carts from the
Epson it's not a *huge* risk ... and I'll keep the HP .. just in case
;-)

All the best Bill .

T i m

 

[T i m]

HP inkjets can be very inexpansive to run if you don't care about print
quality - you just need to refill cartridges yourself.

I have tried refilling and it was 'ok' but I didn't really that hard
;-(

So - you buy a new HP

printer, sell your new cartridges at internet auction site, and instead buy
used empty cartridges & bulk ink in big bottles. If you use bulk ink method
you will have costs of printing lower than most laser printers. But the
print quality will not be very high because HP heads are not designed to
last for so long.

I like the idea .. I don't think I actually print that much?

You also bother with refilling. Advantage of HP is that

you can use cheap inks without worrying about head damage - if these damage
head you just buy another empty cartridge at internet auction sites.

Good point .. and one that can make quite a difference to a printers
lifespan .. however, in this 'disposable world' ... ?

If you care about print quality and still want to pay reasonable amount of
money for inks you have to buy a Canon printer, and use it with quality
replacement cartridges.

Canon was suggested elsewhere .. the trouble is I can't get the carts
as cheap as the Epson ones and I haven't seen the printers as cheap as
this Epson either .. ;-(

It is more comfortable way of using printer than

refilling HP, because all you have to do is to pop a new cartridge instead
of old one. Cartridges don't contain neither head nor chips that's why
replacement cartridges for Canon cost LESS than remanufactured cartridges
for HP or Epson. And you still can sell OEM inks that came with the printer
and get money for few replacement ones

;-)
Someone said with the older Canons you could remove and clean the (or
part of) the head mech?

Summary: If you want quality & comfort - Buy Canon and use it with quality
replacement cartridges. If you want low cost above all - use HP, buy empty
cartridges and refill them yourself with cheap ink.

Thanks very much for that. I think I'm going to *try* the Epson (cheap
printer and trade cost carts) but will keep the HP with the thought
that if I can fix the little paper feed fingers that have come off (so
I have to take the printouts page at a time or it will jam) I might
try the refill route ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

 

[Bill]

Hi Bill, well a colour cart for the HP would cost me around 26 gbp (in
PC World, 15 for a black) but I think I can get them for about 17 and
16 on the net. The 4 carts for the Epson about the same total. However
I believe the HP black cart holds 25ml whereas the Epson holds 13.
But, the HP colour is 23ml (that must be in total?) and is in one
lump?

As I've said many times in the past, do NOT confuse ink volume with page
yields...they do not equate to each other.

There are many different formulations of ink, and some are much more
efficient at getting high numbers of pages from a cartridge before
running low of ink. For instance, my now defunct Canon i850 used a 26ml
black ink tank, and my HP 6540 uses a 21ml cart, yet the HP delivers
nearly twice as many pages at 5% coverage (800 for HP vs 420 for Canon).

When you compare prices, the HP is only a few dollars more for the same
amount of printing because you need to buy two (2) Canon ink tanks to
roughly equal the same number of pages as the HP cart. Not a huge
difference, but with the HP you get a new printhead every time.

The same applies to the colour carts and ink tanks. When you compare
page yields and total costs, the two are very competitive.

I suppose it depends how much colour you use .. especially the
proportions?

For colour cartridges, it often makes little difference if you use a
single tri-colour cart or three individual tanks...the usage is actually
very similar.

There are exceptions, such as lots of photos where all you see is blue
sky. If that's the ONLY kind of photos you take, then yes individual
colour cartridges will save you some money in the long run. But for
typical use, a tri-colour works just as well.

Ah, there's an extra twist here .. the 840c has a 'fault' (little
paper guides have come off) and I have to had un-feed the paper
myself.

Oh well, if you subtract the value of a new set of carts from the
Epson it's not a *huge* risk ... and I'll keep the HP .. just in case
;-)

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying an Epson
printer at all. I just want you to have the proper facts beforehand so
you can make an informed decision.

Far too often I see people in here bashing HP over cartridge prices, and
it's simply incorrect to say Canon, Epson, and Lexmark are cheaper, when
really they're not.

Have fun with whatever you buy!

 

[Bill]

Thanks very much for that. I think I'm going to *try* the Epson (cheap
printer and trade cost carts) but will keep the HP with the thought
that if I can fix the little paper feed fingers that have come off (so
I have to take the printouts page at a time or it will jam) I might
try the refill route ;-)

Have you tried contacting HP about replacement parts?

Sometimes parts are somewhat expensive, but other times they seem like a
relative bargain.

 

[Dan G]

Definitely look at the Canon Pixma IP3000 or 4000. You have the option of
using either the top feed or the tray feed (like HP), or both. No printer
alive is cheaper to run than a Canon, whether you calculate cost per page or
not, they are dirt cheap to run, and ridiculously easy to refill. The PIXMA
printers are producing amazing quality, full duplexing and 2 paper feeds.
They are whisper quiet too.

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

Definitely look at the Canon Pixma IP3000 or 4000. You have the option of
using either the top feed or the tray feed (like HP), or both. No printer
alive is cheaper to run than a Canon, whether you calculate cost per page or
not, they are dirt cheap to run, and ridiculously easy to refill. The PIXMA
printers are producing amazing quality, full duplexing and 2 paper feeds.
They are whisper quiet too.

I buy compatible cartridges (BCI-6) from ebay for our Canon printers (we
have four of them) for $1.70 per cartridge which includes shipping.
They are also a higher capacity (25% more ink) than the OEM pieces. I
can't see much of a difference in print quality, if any, between these
compatibles and OEM cartridges. I think we are printing photos at our
house for less than a photo lab would charge us. I'm not intending to
be a walking billboard for Canon but if cost of operation is your main
concern you can't beat their printers.

 

[T i m]

Have you tried contacting HP about replacement parts?

Sometimes parts are somewhat expensive, but other times they seem like a
relative bargain.

I still have the parts Bill but know that if they fell off once they
will fall off again ;-(

(they are little spring loaded 'fingers' that seem to guide each sheet
away from the printing mech).

All the best ..

T i m

 

[T i m]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying an Epson
printer at all.

I didn't take it that way Bill ;-)

I just want you to have the proper facts beforehand so

you can make an informed decision.

Indeed .. and you (and others) have given me food for thought.

Far too often I see people in here bashing HP over cartridge prices, and
it's simply incorrect to say Canon, Epson, and Lexmark are cheaper, when
really they're not.

Quite so, (especially Lexmark!), but I just happen to be in a position
where I can get Epson carts pretty cheap (but not HP or Canon), have
found the C66 pretty cheap (but not HP and *nearly* Canon).

Have fun with whatever you buy!

I'm not sure about 'fun' Bill ... I just want to be able to print when
I need to and not have to spend a fortune on inks. Most of my output
being e-mails or web pages (for reference) and the odd digital picture
(to show Mum etc) ;-)

Getting an Epson might also force me to have a clear out .. I won't be
able to put the 40 CD's I currently have on the HP on the Epson!

All the best ..

T i m

 

[T i m]

I buy compatible cartridges (BCI-6) from ebay for our Canon printers (we
have four of them) for $1.70 per cartridge which includes shipping.
They are also a higher capacity (25% more ink) than the OEM pieces. I
can't see much of a difference in print quality, if any, between these
compatibles and OEM cartridges. I think we are printing photos at our
house for less than a photo lab would charge us. I'm not intending to
be a walking billboard for Canon but if cost of operation is your main
concern you can't beat their printers.

Hi Michael,

Thanks for that.

Cost is important at the moment, both the initial and running costs.
The C66 is going to cost me just over 50 gbp (collected locally) and
an Epson service centre is also close (should I need to return it
within 1 yr). The equiv HP / Canon will probably cost at least 50%
more to buy and 'possibly' less to run (because of my access to Epson
<only> carts at trade prices?).

Time will tell though ... ;-)

Alll the best .. (to you and everyone who has helped so far) .. ;-)

T i m

 

[Bob Headrick]

I still have the parts Bill but know that if they fell off once they
will fall off again ;-(

(they are little spring loaded 'fingers' that seem to guide each sheet
away from the printing mech).

These are typically dislodged by a user pulling paper from the front in case of
a paper jam. The proper way to clear a jam is to open the rear access panel
and remove the jam from the rear. See:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bpd09175
for tips on preventing paper jams.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[T i m]

These are typically dislodged by a user pulling paper from the front in case of
a paper jam.

Now what fool would go and do that Bob! <blush>. (I actual fact I
think it may of happened when my daughter printed from her PC over our
network when I had left something on the output tray? (I was a can of
beer once but I caught it in time!). ;-)

The proper way to clear a jam is to open the rear access panel

and remove the jam from the rear. See:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bpd09175
for tips on preventing paper jams.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

Of course not <wink> ;-)

Ok then, howabout this ... I may still get the Epson C66 as my
daughters C44UX was made up of a several 'duff' machines (the main bit
being a chassis from a brand new machine where the new owner ripped
out the carriage ribbon cable thinking it was packaging tape .. <oh
yes!> so I don't know how well it will last. Then I can see if I can
get the HP carts cheaper or refill the old ones (not had much luck
with shop 'refilled' one). Then we have a choice (and I don't loose
the HP) ;-)

I'm not going to pay nearly as much for two HP carts from PC World
than I might buy a complete new Epson C66 with (4) carts am I?

All the best ..

T i m

Ere, Bob, want 3 'nearly working' HPLJ IV's ... ;-)

 

[T i m]

Definitely look at the Canon Pixma IP3000 or 4000. You have the option of
using either the top feed or the tray feed (like HP), or both. No printer
alive is cheaper to run than a Canon, whether you calculate cost per page or
not, they are dirt cheap to run, and ridiculously easy to refill. The PIXMA
printers are producing amazing quality, full duplexing and 2 paper feeds.
They are whisper quiet too.

Hi Dan,

Well I have may been saved from a 'impulse purchase' (Stylus C66)
because they didn't have any when I went there today (no surprise
really).

But they did have the IP4000 and when I picked it up it felt pretty
'substantial' ?

I sussed out the lower paper tray (and how it extends to take A4) and
assume the paper exit is via the drop down flap?

I believe the 4000 has both USB and Centronics (handy if I wanted to
network it) and have also found out that I can get the inks pretty
cheap (on the net or through my local supplier). ;-)

Slightly confused by the inks though .. it has two blacks but both
seem to be the same type? (ie non photo ink or are they ..?).

I think it can also print directly onto CD's ? Does that work well?

All the best ..

T i m