Is there a motherboard that supports PCI-e version 2 AND socket 775AND DDR2?

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V

v

I want to re-use most of my existing hardware and just buy a new
graphics card and motherboard, as the old graphics cards has expired a
few days outside it's warranty. :P

I've asked a few computer stores who referred me to the manufacturers
who referred me to the computer stores.

I know PCI-e v2 is backwards compatible and i can use the graphics card
in pci-e v1 but i'd rather take advantage of pci-e v2 if i can.

Can anyone advise me?

Thanks!
 
v said:
I want to re-use most of my existing hardware and just buy a new
graphics card and motherboard, as the old graphics cards has expired a
few days outside it's warranty. :P

I've asked a few computer stores who referred me to the manufacturers
who referred me to the computer stores.

I know PCI-e v2 is backwards compatible and i can use the graphics card
in pci-e v1 but i'd rather take advantage of pci-e v2 if i can.

Can anyone advise me?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


We can start with an example.

GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX $135
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

First of all, always read the description, and verify the board
takes DDR2. Some chipsets support both, so just saying "P45 please"
is not enough. You have to verify the memory type, by reading the
specs. You can get P45 boards that take only DDR2, or ones
that take only DDR3.

I picked this one, to show you something else.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-128-358-S03?$S640W$

A number of the more expensive P45 boards, have two PCI Express video
card slots. There are four chips, next to the leftmost (primary) video
slot. If the left slot is occupied, and the other video slot is not
used, the left slot runs at PCI Express x16 Version 2 (8GB/sec).
If both slots are occupied, they get half the bandwidth. The four
little chips, take the place of the paddlecards used in a previous
generation of dual slot boards. The four chips "steer" half the
lanes away from the primary slot, and over to the secondary slot.
If the lanes are split like that, each slot receives a maximum of
4GB/sec.

If your video card is actually a Version 1 card, then you divide
those numbers in half. Version 1 cards run the lanes at
half the speed. In version two, 16 lanes at 500MB/sec per lane, is
what gives 8GB/sec unidirectional (there is a separate RX and TX bus).

In Version 1, it would be 16 lanes times 250MB/sec for 4GB/sec
unidirectional. Again, there is a separate TX and a separate RX
bus running at that speed. (In a lot of cases, only one direction
would really be busy. The companies like to add the bandwidths
together, to make a bigger number.)

Now, the P43 chipset, by comparison, doesn't really support that
splitting quite as well. P43 provides a single x16 interface at
Version 2 rates. So if you only expect to need one video card
slot, then a P43 could save you a few dollars. I expect the
silicon dies in those two chips are identical, and a programmable
link is set internally to determine the behavior. (The chips may
be speed binned as well, as one lists higher memory speeds than
the other.)

Believe it or not, Wikipedia has a nicer table of Intel chipsets,
than Intel does. Intel has a chart that needs to be updated.
Wikipedia is more up-to-date. See "Core 2 Chipsets". And Wikipedia
doesn't even pay its contributors, to keep that chart up to date, while
Intel does pay their staff :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#Core_2_Chipsets

You'll notice in that chart, that X48 supports two full bandwidth
PCI Express x16 version 2 slots. That is a no-compromises chipset,
with a price to match. That would be suitable for CrossFire say,
where you could be sure there was no limitation at the PCI Express
level. Is that absolutely necessary ? Probably not.

Nvidia chipsets, is what you'd normally use, if you wanted to
run SLI with two Nvidia video cards. The one exception to that,
is the Intel X58 chipset for the Core i7, has the option of an
SLI license, so it would be an SLI option for the Core i7.

Nvidia probably has a chipset chart of some sort, to compare their
offerings. But again, since I've got the page up, there is a
chart on Wikipedia. The 780i SLI supports DDR2. The more recent
790i SLI supports DDR3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_chipsets

The P45 looks good enough to me. I'll probably be cheaper than
some of the other options.

HTH,
Paul
 
Paul said:
We can start with an example.

GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX $135
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

First of all, always read the description, and verify the board
takes DDR2. Some chipsets support both, so just saying "P45 please"
is not enough. You have to verify the memory type, by reading the
specs. You can get P45 boards that take only DDR2, or ones
that take only DDR3.

I picked this one, to show you something else.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-128-358-S03?$S640W$

A number of the more expensive P45 boards, have two PCI Express video
card slots. There are four chips, next to the leftmost (primary) video
slot. If the left slot is occupied, and the other video slot is not
used, the left slot runs at PCI Express x16 Version 2 (8GB/sec).
If both slots are occupied, they get half the bandwidth. The four
little chips, take the place of the paddlecards used in a previous
generation of dual slot boards. The four chips "steer" half the
lanes away from the primary slot, and over to the secondary slot.
If the lanes are split like that, each slot receives a maximum of
4GB/sec.

If your video card is actually a Version 1 card, then you divide
those numbers in half. Version 1 cards run the lanes at
half the speed. In version two, 16 lanes at 500MB/sec per lane, is
what gives 8GB/sec unidirectional (there is a separate RX and TX bus).

In Version 1, it would be 16 lanes times 250MB/sec for 4GB/sec
unidirectional. Again, there is a separate TX and a separate RX
bus running at that speed. (In a lot of cases, only one direction
would really be busy. The companies like to add the bandwidths
together, to make a bigger number.)

Now, the P43 chipset, by comparison, doesn't really support that
splitting quite as well. P43 provides a single x16 interface at
Version 2 rates. So if you only expect to need one video card
slot, then a P43 could save you a few dollars. I expect the
silicon dies in those two chips are identical, and a programmable
link is set internally to determine the behavior. (The chips may
be speed binned as well, as one lists higher memory speeds than
the other.)

Believe it or not, Wikipedia has a nicer table of Intel chipsets,
than Intel does. Intel has a chart that needs to be updated.
Wikipedia is more up-to-date. See "Core 2 Chipsets". And Wikipedia
doesn't even pay its contributors, to keep that chart up to date, while
Intel does pay their staff :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#Core_2_Chipsets

You'll notice in that chart, that X48 supports two full bandwidth
PCI Express x16 version 2 slots. That is a no-compromises chipset,
with a price to match. That would be suitable for CrossFire say,
where you could be sure there was no limitation at the PCI Express
level. Is that absolutely necessary ? Probably not.

Nvidia chipsets, is what you'd normally use, if you wanted to
run SLI with two Nvidia video cards. The one exception to that,
is the Intel X58 chipset for the Core i7, has the option of an
SLI license, so it would be an SLI option for the Core i7.

Nvidia probably has a chipset chart of some sort, to compare their
offerings. But again, since I've got the page up, there is a
chart on Wikipedia. The 780i SLI supports DDR2. The more recent
790i SLI supports DDR3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_chipsets

The P45 looks good enough to me. I'll probably be cheaper than
some of the other options.

HTH,
Paul
Click to expand...

I wanted to get HIS ATI HD4870 PCI-E 2.0 1GB as a graphics card (Bus
Interface PCI Express x16
)(http://www.i-tech.com.au/products/40906_HIS_ATI_HD4870_PCI_E_2_0_1GB_256_bit.aspx),
and since my e8400 CPU is on the list of the supported CPUs for the
GA-EP45-UD3P then the only question mark seems to be the RAM.

I'm using DDR2 (4 * 2 gig sticks)(PC6400 800 MHz Geil Ultra Value
5-5-5-15) which are probably ok. It's not mentioned specifically in the
RAM documentation. It's probably a bit of a bottleneck but if i upgrade,
it's back to square one.

In the long run, I might look at 2 graphics cards but for the time being
one working one would be good, and as far as I can see, the 4870 should
be pretty good for the price. It only has a 1 year warranty so I'm
guessing it will kablooie shortly after!

Thanks for your help Paul. Does this sound like it should be ok for
gaming and animation work?
 
v said:
I wanted to get HIS ATI HD4870 PCI-E 2.0 1GB as a graphics card (Bus
Interface PCI Express x16
)(http://www.i-tech.com.au/products/40906_HIS_ATI_HD4870_PCI_E_2_0_1GB_256_bit.aspx),

and since my e8400 CPU is on the list of the supported CPUs for the
GA-EP45-UD3P then the only question mark seems to be the RAM.

I'm using DDR2 (4 * 2 gig sticks)(PC6400 800 MHz Geil Ultra Value
5-5-5-15) which are probably ok. It's not mentioned specifically in the
RAM documentation. It's probably a bit of a bottleneck but if i upgrade,
it's back to square one.

In the long run, I might look at 2 graphics cards but for the time being
one working one would be good, and as far as I can see, the 4870 should
be pretty good for the price. It only has a 1 year warranty so I'm
guessing it will kablooie shortly after!

Thanks for your help Paul. Does this sound like it should be ok for
gaming and animation work?
Click to expand...

I think I'd be happy, if I had a 4870 :-) My video card is a bit more
modest.

There are charts around, if you want to compare.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Left4Dead,1181.html

Paul
 
Somewhere said:
Believe it or not, Wikipedia has a nicer table of Intel chipsets,
than Intel does. Intel has a chart that needs to be updated.
Wikipedia is more up-to-date. See "Core 2 Chipsets". And Wikipedia
doesn't even pay its contributors, to keep that chart up to date,
while Intel does pay their staff :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#Core_2_Chipsets
Click to expand...

I just checked that page to see if my C2D / DDR / AGP motherboard chipset
was listed as a 'Core 2 Chipset' and it's not even close. It's two tables
above, headed 'Pentium 4 Chipsets' and under the 'Processors' column only
lists Pentium 4, Celeron and Celeron D.

It's an 865G(+) which is running an E4500 and 2 x 1GB DDR RAM in
dual-channel quite nicely. As well as the AGP slot it also has two IDE
channels (and SATA, it has an ICH5) so I was able to re-use a lot of
existing stuff with a reasonably fast CPU when I built it last year.

Asus P5PE-VM.

Cheers,
 
~misfit~ said:
I just checked that page to see if my C2D / DDR / AGP motherboard chipset
was listed as a 'Core 2 Chipset' and it's not even close. It's two tables
above, headed 'Pentium 4 Chipsets' and under the 'Processors' column only
lists Pentium 4, Celeron and Celeron D.

It's an 865G(+) which is running an E4500 and 2 x 1GB DDR RAM in
dual-channel quite nicely. As well as the AGP slot it also has two IDE
channels (and SATA, it has an ICH5) so I was able to re-use a lot of
existing stuff with a reasonably fast CPU when I built it last year.

Asus P5PE-VM.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

865G was introduced in the S478 era. Both Intel and Wikipedia, would
rightly associate 865G with S478/P4. Intel wouldn't officially support
designs with LGA775, but Asus did it anyway, to tap into the incremental
upgrade market.

That FSB spans several generations. There are all sorts of
things you could do, which would not be notable from the
Wikipedia perspective. (Say, connect an S423 processor, to a
P45 chipset.)

There is little difference between S478 and LGA775. LGA775 adds
a whole bunch of power and ground pins, planning for an era
of ever higher power consuming processors. I was surprised
when I compared the pinouts, as to how little had changed
on the functional pins.

So while I may not like the formatting of the Wikipedia page,
I also don't expect them to analyse 10,000 motherboard designs,
looking for exception cases. The table should be reflecting
the "day of introduction" hardware combinations.

I fault Intel, because they stopped updating one of their
summary charts, making it impossible to point people to a single
page for comparison purposes.

Paul
 
Somewhere said:
865G was introduced in the S478 era. Both Intel and Wikipedia, would
rightly associate 865G with S478/P4. Intel wouldn't officially support
designs with LGA775, but Asus did it anyway, to tap into the
incremental upgrade market.

That FSB spans several generations. There are all sorts of
things you could do, which would not be notable from the
Wikipedia perspective. (Say, connect an S423 processor, to a
P45 chipset.)

There is little difference between S478 and LGA775. LGA775 adds
a whole bunch of power and ground pins, planning for an era
of ever higher power consuming processors. I was surprised
when I compared the pinouts, as to how little had changed
on the functional pins.

So while I may not like the formatting of the Wikipedia page,
I also don't expect them to analyse 10,000 motherboard designs,
looking for exception cases. The table should be reflecting
the "day of introduction" hardware combinations.

I fault Intel, because they stopped updating one of their
summary charts, making it impossible to point people to a single
page for comparison purposes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, understood. I was just commenting as the OP wanted a particular/odd
mix of compatibility and I had such a motherboard, albeit a bit older. My
point was that the chipset tables don't tell the whole story.

I wasn't faulting your post, I have nothing but admiration for all you do to
help posters here.

Cheers,
 
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