Is linq the final straw for VB?

[Michael C]

In C# we can write linq queries like this:

MyCollection.Where(i => i.SomeDate > Today).GroupBy(i => i.SomeDate) etc

For something as simple as this there is no much point using this syntax
(as opposed to the "friendly" syntax, eg "From i in myCollection etc") but
as the queries get more complex and you start to add your own linq operators
this syntax become not only more powerful but necessary. I found at first I
tried to use the friendly syntax and switch over to the above style once I
encountered a limitation. Now I just use the above syntax everywhere so I
don't have to convert and everything is consistant. I think it's simpler to
use and easier to understand once you get the hang of it. It's often
difficult to tell exactly what the "friendly" syntax is actually going to
call.

Anyway, my point is that with VB you need to write Function(i) instead of
just i => which seems to defeat a lot of the point of linq which is to write
short consice code. I really don't see why they didn't pick up the C# style
of doing it. Opinions?

Michael

 

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Hi,

Do you mabye drive only bicycles and tell everywhere that everybody should
do that?

I can assure you that the .Net language development team always overthinks
very good what they do.

As you think you can do it better, then make your own product and sell it,
ythe market for VB is much larger than for C#, so this is a golden
opertunity.

jmo

Cor

 

[Michel Posseth [MCP]]

<<<<< WARNING The following reflects my personal opinion regarding
postings like this >>>>>

My personal opinion is that it is a bit odd that people come here in the
VB.Net group for the sole reasson to bash VB

There are so manny things that are a lot easier in VB as in C# , do you see
anny of us posting this in the C# groups with offensive titles as "is
office interop the final straw for C# ? " just to call one or what did you
thought about optional and named parameters lots of succes with that in C#
( at least until framework 4.0 )

or no this one is also stil a favorite one of mine

C#
for (int i = 1; (i <= 10);
i = (i + 2))
{
// Do your stuff
}
or okay option 2 for (int i = 1; i <= 10; i += 2) { // Do your stuff
}VBFor i = 1 To 10 Step 2
'Do your stuff
Next
Pick the one that seems easiest to code and understand

But hey i am just a stupid VB guy who ocasionally uses C# just for the sole
reasson that a lot of open libs are written in C# and i do not want to
completely rewrite them but just change them and import them in my solution
as C# as i do not have a aversion against C# .

IMHO :
Both have there pro`s and con`s due to just the simple fact that both dev
teams give different priorities to some implementations in the languages and
syntaxtical
but i do not need C# fanboys in the VB groups telling me that VB is less
mature as C# they are brothers of the same kind but it is mostly the C#
coder running around as Kaïn , in the end you might kill us, but it is
Abel who is and stays the most beloved in this group

regards

Michel Posseth [MCP]

 

[mayayana]

which seems to defeat a lot of the point of linq which is to write

short consice code. I really don't see why they didn't pick up the C# style
of doing it. Opinions?

Some people might think that French is the best
language for love poems. But English is just as
good. It depends on one's ability with the language,
and one's depth of experience.

People who like terse code prefer C. People who like
expressive code like Basic. Sometimes C people think
they're a little bit special because their code is harder to
understand. And some Perl people take mysterious
terseness to the level of a cult.
In my experience it seems like there are a number of
types of people who are attracted to progamming. The
math lovers seem to be the ones who like terse code.
Like engineers, architects and carpenters -- all working
on a house, but each having a different focus in accord
with his/her temperament.

Why does everyone need to do things your way?

I really should let sleeping dogs lie. At least you're
not still complaining in the VB group. But I can't help
noticing that your main activity seems to be not coding but
rather dissatisfaction. You used to hang around in the VB
group, criticizing VB and singing the praises of VB.Net. Now
you hang around haranguing the VBDotNetters, telling
them that they should be using C!

Maybe you should take a break and work on a love poem,
seeing as how it's Valentine's Day.

 

[Family Tree Mike]

In C# we can write linq queries like this:

MyCollection.Where(i => i.SomeDate > Today).GroupBy(i => i.SomeDate) etc

For something as simple as this there is no much point using this syntax
(as opposed to the "friendly" syntax, eg "From i in myCollection etc") but
as the queries get more complex and you start to add your own linq
operators this syntax become not only more powerful but necessary. I found
at first I tried to use the friendly syntax and switch over to the above
style once I encountered a limitation. Now I just use the above syntax
everywhere so I don't have to convert and everything is consistant. I
think it's simpler to use and easier to understand once you get the hang
of it. It's often difficult to tell exactly what the "friendly" syntax is
actually going to call.

Anyway, my point is that with VB you need to write Function(i) instead of
just i => which seems to defeat a lot of the point of linq which is to
write short consice code. I really don't see why they didn't pick up the
C# style of doing it. Opinions?

Michael

Isn't this the same discussion that occured on 19 Jan 2009 in the subject
"when is VB.Net getting anonymous delegates?"

Use whichever tool you want for the layer you find it best for. Mixed
language solutions are very common these days.

 

[Mr. Arnold]

In C# we can write linq queries like this:

MyCollection.Where(i => i.SomeDate > Today).GroupBy(i => i.SomeDate) etc

For something as simple as this there is no much point using this syntax
(as opposed to the "friendly" syntax, eg "From i in myCollection etc") but
as the queries get more complex and you start to add your own linq operators
this syntax become not only more powerful but necessary. I found at first I
tried to use the friendly syntax and switch over to the above style once I
encountered a limitation. Now I just use the above syntax everywhere so I
don't have to convert and everything is consistant. I think it's simpler to
use and easier to understand once you get the hang of it. It's often
difficult to tell exactly what the "friendly" syntax is actually going to
call.

Anyway, my point is that with VB you need to write Function(i) instead of
just i => which seems to defeat a lot of the point of linq which is to write
short consice code. I really don't see why they didn't pick up the C# style
of doing it. Opinions?

You're only talking about a needle in the iceberg. I suggest you get a
good Linq book to find out what you can really do with link.

http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?externalID=1181
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb892929.aspx
http://rshelton.com/archive/2008/07/11/list-of-linq-providers.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb546158.aspx

 

[Michael C]

<<<<< WARNING The following reflects my personal opinion regarding
postings like this >>>>>

My personal opinion is that it is a bit odd that people come here in the
VB.Net group for the sole reasson to bash VB

There are so manny things that are a lot easier in VB as in C# , do you
see anny of us posting this in the C# groups with offensive titles as "is
office interop the final straw for C# ? " just to call one or what did you
thought about optional and named parameters lots of succes with that in C#
( at least until framework 4.0 )

Possibly they know deep down that C# is the better choice.

or no this one is also stil a favorite one of mine

C#
for (int i = 1; (i <= 10);
i = (i + 2))
{
// Do your stuff
}
or okay option 2 for (int i = 1; i <= 10; i += 2) { // Do your stuff
}VBFor i = 1 To 10 Step 2
'Do your stuff
Next
Pick the one that seems easiest to code and understand

Well the c# syntax there is clearly superior because you can do anything you
like. Step can be a log function if you want and you can increment 2
variables which often comes in handy, eg

int* ptr = GetSomePointer();
for (int i = 1; i <= 10; i += 2, ptr++)

You can also have the upper limit being another variable that changes during
the loop if you really wanted to. So basically the syntax is significantly
more powerful and is only a few chrs longer.

But the thing is with these kind of discussions is the VBers always pick
some of the rare places in C# where there is more typing. As a whole there
is simply a lot more typing in VB.

IMHO :
Both have there pro`s and con`s due to just the simple fact that both dev
teams give different priorities to some implementations in the languages
and syntaxtical

The only real advantage I can see with VB is the late binding office
automation thing. I'm yet to try this to see what a real issue it is.

but i do not need C# fanboys in the VB groups telling me that VB is less
mature as C# they are brothers of the same kind but it is mostly the C#
coder running around as Kaïn , in the end you might kill us, but it is
Abel who is and stays the most beloved in this group

Then don't read this thread. I was asking a valid question, with a complex
linq query you have to write Function(i) over and over which is a pain.

Michael

 

[Michael C]

You're only talking about a needle in the iceberg.

Maybe so but at the very basic level linq is a little too long winded in VB.

I suggest you get a good Linq book to find out what you can really do with
link.

http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?externalID=1181
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb892929.aspx
http://rshelton.com/archive/2008/07/11/list-of-linq-providers.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb546158.aspx

I do know linq reasonably well but I haven't got into creating my own
providers as yet so thanks for the links. I'll give them a read on monday.

 

[Mike Williams]

But the thing is with these kind of discussions is the VBers
always pick some of the rare places in C# where there is
more typing.

How come you spent ages infesting the Classic VB newsgroup with your
deliberately annoying anti-VB6 crap and suggesting that we should all scrap
VB6 and move to VB.Net, and now you've left your friend and neighbour (or
perhaps your alter ego) Bill McCarthy dealing with infestatation of the
Classic VB side of things whilst you spend your time infesting the VB.Net
group. You're as annoying, and about as useful, as a sewer rat! Why don't
you get a life! Better still, get two lives!

Mike

 

[Michael C]

How come you spent ages infesting the Classic VB newsgroup with your
deliberately annoying anti-VB6 crap and suggesting that we should all
scrap VB6 and move to VB.Net, and now you've left your friend and
neighbour (or perhaps your alter ego) Bill McCarthy dealing with
infestatation of the Classic VB side of things whilst you spend your time
infesting the VB.Net group. You're as annoying, and about as useful, as a
sewer rat! Why don't you get a life! Better still, get two lives!

Hi Mike, good to hear from you again. What you're saying is pretty much
completely false. In any discussion I had in a vb6 group I always referred
to dot net as opposed to vb.net, except maybe right at the start. That's 8
years ago now mike! I did use vb.net for a little while but pretty soon
worked out that C# was the better choice. Generally after discovering
something cool most people like to share it, I'm no different. When used on
a day to day basis C# is very much superior in a professional environment.

Michael

 

[Michel Posseth [MCP]]

Possibly they know deep down that C# is the better choice.

You confirm here my first point, this wasn`t a posting with a valid question
it was again just bashing VB
C# the better choice ? for a Java , C++ and all other mathmetatical syntax
developers it is , for a logical syntax developer or annyone who likes a
RAD language VB is the better choice .

Personally i believe that VB developers are overall more modest an logical
thinking people , they can see that every language suits a certain need , we
are more multicultural in terms of programming languages , however the
bashers that come by in this group seem to believe in only one super
language and everything else has no right of existence and is inferior .

Well the c# syntax there is clearly superior because you can do anything
you like. Step can be a log function if you want and you can increment 2
variables which often comes in handy, eg

int* ptr = GetSomePointer();
for (int i = 1; i <= 10; i += 2, ptr++)

You can also have the upper limit being another variable that changes
during the loop if you really wanted to. So basically the syntax is
significantly more powerful and is only a few chrs longer.

But the thing is with these kind of discussions is the VBers always pick
some of the rare places in C# where there is more typing. As a whole there
is simply a lot more typing in VB.

Huh ? wel for the sake of your case you forgot the other points i made like
"optional and named parameters "
cause you do not have a valid alternative, for optional you could have
argued that method overloading is the valid way to mimic the same behavior ,
however this costs a lot more typing and would be pathetic in contradiction
to your above argument, so good for you that you did not step in that trap
..

But a lot more typing in VB ? hmmmm

if (Object.ReferenceEquals(a, b))
{
// variables refer to the same instance
}

VS If a Is b Then
' variables refer to the same instance
End If
if ((a == null && b == null) || (a != null && b != null) && a.equals(b))
VSIf a = b Then
And about logic int [] ages = new int[n]; ( integer ages is new integer
in n dimensions )VS Dim ages(n) as Integer ( Ages in n dimensions as
integer ) why do i have to tell C# 2 times wich datatype or object type it
is dealling with ? Just some rare examples who seem to be not so rare do
they ? i can dig up a lot more if you want however honesty needs me to say
that i could also do the same against VB in favor of C# and ofcourse if
() { }is a lot shorter as If () ThenEnd if
But the VB IDE team found something verry smart for that , you only
type If () and press enter and the IDE does the rest , a true RAD language
in a true RAD environment by the way you can discuss whateveryou want about
the language but a true fact is that the IDE of VB is superior to that of C#
in every way That is also the reasson why VB was a bit behind on C# in some
new features as the 2 dev teams focussed on 2 different points , C# dev team
language enhancements , VB dev team getting all the nice features back that
the VB6 IDE already had ( background compilation , debug,pause , change and
continue without recompiling etc etc etc... ) and then enhance the IDE so it
has "more" to offer .>> IMHO :>> Both have there pro`s and con`s due to just
the simple fact that both dev >> teams give different priorities to some
implementations in the languages >> and syntaxtical> > The only real
advantage I can see with VB is the late binding office > automation thing.
I'm yet to try this to see what a real issue it is.yes indeed and all other
Automation , COM interop thingies especially when you want to use Late
bindingand ofcourse LINQ to XML wich is superior in VB at the moment and
................. >> but i do not need C# fanboys in the VB groups telling
me that VB is less >> mature as C# they are brothers of the same kind but
it is mostly the C# >> coder running around as Kaïn , in the end you
might kill us, but it is >> Abel who is and stays the most beloved in this
group> > Then don't read this thread. I was asking a valid question, with a
complex > linq query you have to write Function(i) over and over which is a
pain.> > Michael IMHO : And when i reread the thread and the responses from
my fellow peers your posting is interpreted as yetanother atack on the VB
comunity , the Title was enough for me to let me think "Oh no not again"
oh.. another thingy about VB developers in contradiction to "other" groups
we are pretty social peoplehere and like to keep the discussion nice and
with respect to each other . I hope you get my overall point i both
love VB and C# i just favor VB a bit more , i also wonder what will happen
if F# developers will behave how C# developers behave now towards VB
developers .That there are and will be differences between the diverse
languages is a common fact and as a smart developer once said "Language
choice is as much an emotional as a logical decision."RegardsMichel Posseth

 

[Mike Williams]

That's 8 years ago now mike! I did use vb.net for a little while
but pretty soon worked out that C# was the better choice.

That's nice for you. How close do you live to your friend and neighbour Bill
McCarthy by the way? As far as I can gather you both live in Melbourne. Is
it true that he has been banned from this group by his MS puppet master?

Mike

 

[Mike Williams]

In any discussion I had in a vb6 group I always referred to dot net as
opposed to vb.net, except maybe right at the
start. That's 8 years ago now mike! I did use vb.net for a
little while but pretty soon worked out that C# was the
better choice.

So what are you doing infesting the VB.Net group?

Mike

 

[Michael C]

You confirm here my first point, this wasn`t a posting with a valid
question it was again just bashing VB
C# the better choice ? for a Java , C++ and all other mathmetatical syntax
developers it is , for a logical syntax developer or annyone who likes
a

It seems most of the VBers think that C# and VB.net are very different
languages. This is not true, they are pretty much exactly the same. You
design forms in the same way, you create classes in the same way, the coding
is pretty much the same. They are so similar that a machine can translate
from one to the other with a very high degree of accuracy. All the
differences that people here discuss such as office automation and creating
events are side issues because they are not used all that often. The real
differences are much more subtle and come down to syntax, intellisense,
compiler warnings, lack of legacy keywords and other minor issues. These
might sound fairly minor but if you're stuck using VB day after day all the
extra typing can really drag you down. I think the compiler warnings are a
significant one, if the compiler can pick something up for you then why not?
The lack of legacy stuff such as option strict and on error goto is also
significant in C#. My experience is that when working in a team if there is
a crappy feature some idiot will use it. It's simply better not to have
these features at all.

RAD language VB is the better choice .

I've read this here several times here always with no further explanation.
Why do you think that VB is the better choice for RAD? I think this was once
true when comparing vb6 to C++ but now that C# exists this is no longer
true. Being that the major differences are really fairly minor how could VB
be that much quicker to develop in? Especially seeing that in VB you have to
do more typing in pretty much all cases how can it possibly be quicker?

Personally i believe that VB developers are overall more modest an logical
thinking people , they can see that every language suits a certain need ,
we are more multicultural in terms of programming languages , however
the bashers that come by in this group seem to believe in only one super
language and everything else has no right of existence and is inferior .

Who said anything about 1 superior langauge? Obviously you can't say C++ is
superior to C# because both serve a different purpose. C++ is superior for
writing drivers while C# could be considered superior for writing windows
apps. However seeing VB and C# are pretty much the same and do the same task
I think you can say that C# is the better choice.

Interesting that you brought up this example and then snip it in your
reply....

Huh ? wel for the sake of your case you forgot the other points i made
like "optional and named parameters "

Actually I thought that was covered in my statement that VB has the
occasional saving in typing but these cases are rare when you have written
Dim, End If, Next, Function, Sub, Property etc 1000+ times in day (no
exaggeration!).

cause you do not have a valid alternative, for optional you could have
argued that method overloading is the valid way to mimic the same behavior
, however this costs a lot more typing and would be pathetic in
contradiction to your above argument, so good for you that you did not
step in that trap

Personally I much prefer not to have optionals and in 10+ years of
programming I can't remember ever using named parameters.

But a lot more typing in VB ? hmmmm

if (Object.ReferenceEquals(a, b))
{
// variables refer to the same instance
}

VS If a Is b Then
' variables refer to the same instance
End If

Great, I can't remember ever using ReferenceEquals either.

if ((a == null && b == null) || (a != null && b != null) && a.equals(b))
VSIf a = b Then

I think you're confused there. Why can't I just do "if(a == b)"?

And about logic int [] ages = new int[n]; ( integer ages is new integer
in n dimensions )VS Dim ages(n) as Integer ( Ages in n dimensions as
integer ) why do i have to tell C# 2 times wich datatype or object type
it is dealling with ? Just some rare examples who seem to be not so rare
do they ?

Actually you've hit on the very point I was going to make. These are rare
when you compare it to the big ones such as Dim, Function, Sub etc that you
need to type over and over and over every day. It always seems that the VBer
point out the rare cases in an attempt to "prove" that there is more typing
in C#. You've pretty much proven this by bringing up the ReferenceEquals
case.

i can dig up a lot more if you want however honesty needs me to say that i
could also do the same against VB in favor of C# and ofcourse if ()
{ }is a lot shorter as If () ThenEnd if
But the VB IDE team found something verry smart for that , you only
type If () and press enter and the IDE does the rest , a true RAD language
in a true RAD environment by the way you can discuss whateveryou want
about the language but a true fact is that the IDE of VB is superior to
that of C# in every way

That's pretty much completely not true. Intellisense is very much inferior
in VB. I listed 10 significant problems with the VB intellisense in this
group and there was pretty much no response. In a newsgroup the closest
thing you get to agreement is a non-response.

That is also the reasson why VB was a bit behind on C# in some new
features as the 2 dev teams focussed on 2 different points , C# dev team
language enhancements , VB dev team getting all the nice features back
that the VB6 IDE already had ( background compilation

yuk! One of the best features of C# is the lack of background compile. A lot
of corporate machines are lagging behind in specs. I'm still on a celeron
2.6 with 1gb ram at work while I have a quad core at home. VB was downright
slow on the celery while C# was quite acceptable.

, debug,pause , change and continue without recompiling etc etc etc... )

Didn't VB and C# get these features at the same time?

and then enhance the IDE so it has "more" to offer .

More wizards?

the simple fact that both dev >> teams give different priorities to some
implementations in the languages >> and syntaxtical> > The only real
advantage I can see with VB is the late binding office > automation thing.
I'm yet to try this to see what a real issue it is.yes indeed and all
other Automation , COM interop thingies especially when you want to use
Late bindingand ofcourse LINQ to XML wich is superior in VB at the moment
and

How is linq to xml superior in VB?

................ >> but i do not need C# fanboys in the VB groups telling
me that VB is less >> mature as C# they are brothers of the same kind
but it is mostly the C# >> coder running around as Kaïn , in the end
you might kill us, but it is >> Abel who is and stays the most beloved
in this group> > Then don't read this thread. I was asking a valid
question, with a complex > linq query you have to write Function(i) over
and over which is a pain.> > Michael IMHO : And when i reread the thread
and the responses from my fellow peers your posting is interpreted as
yetanother atack on the VB comunity , the Title was enough for me to let
me think "Oh no not again" oh.. another thingy about VB developers in
contradiction to "other" groups we are pretty social peoplehere and like
to keep the discussion nice and with respect to each other . I hope
you get my overall point i both love VB and C# i just favor VB a bit more
, i also wonder what will happen if F# developers will behave how C#
developers behave now towards VB developers .That there are and will be
differences between the diverse languages is a common fact and as a smart
developer once said "Language choice is as much an emotional as a logical
decision."RegardsMichel Posseth

For some reason the formatting here has gotten a little screwed up so I'm
not sure what part is your text and others.

Michael

 

[Michael C]

That's nice for you. How close do you live to your friend and neighbour
Bill McCarthy by the way? As far as I can gather you both live in
Melbourne.

Saying I'm the same person as Bill because we both live in Melbourne is
about as rediculous as saying you're the same person as someone else because
they live in the UK. Is all you've got to go on the fact that we both live
in Melbourne? Headers show we have different ISPs so it would quite a feat
for me to keep up such a charade over many years.

Is it true that he has been banned from this group by his MS puppet
master?

No idea but it is always good not to have him around.

Michael

 

[Michael C]

So what are you doing infesting the VB.Net group?

I got stuck using VB.net in my current job (until we bought a C# converter).
What are you doing here Mike? Starting to try some vb.net? 8 years on if
you'd started on it back then you'd be an expert by now.

Michael

 

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Michel,

Eigenlijk een beetje hetzelfde als Engels en Nederlands.

Als je beide echter nooit hebt geleerd, dan zie je gauw dat het toch
allemaal wat anders is dan het lijkt voor degene die goed overweg kunnen met
deze talen.

Geef even een reactie Michel (in het Engels)?



Cor

You confirm here my first point, this wasn`t a posting with a valid
question it was again just bashing VB
C# the better choice ? for a Java , C++ and all other mathmetatical
syntax developers it is , for a logical syntax developer or annyone
who likes a

It seems most of the VBers think that C# and VB.net are very different
languages. This is not true, they are pretty much exactly the same. You
design forms in the same way, you create classes in the same way, the
coding is pretty much the same. They are so similar that a machine can
translate from one to the other with a very high degree of accuracy. All
the differences that people here discuss such as office automation and
creating events are side issues because they are not used all that often.
The real differences are much more subtle and come down to syntax,
intellisense, compiler warnings, lack of legacy keywords and other minor
issues. These might sound fairly minor but if you're stuck using VB day
after day all the extra typing can really drag you down. I think the
compiler warnings are a significant one, if the compiler can pick
something up for you then why not? The lack of legacy stuff such as option
strict and on error goto is also significant in C#. My experience is that
when working in a team if there is a crappy feature some idiot will use
it. It's simply better not to have these features at all.

RAD language VB is the better choice .

I've read this here several times here always with no further explanation.
Why do you think that VB is the better choice for RAD? I think this was
once true when comparing vb6 to C++ but now that C# exists this is no
longer true. Being that the major differences are really fairly minor how
could VB be that much quicker to develop in? Especially seeing that in VB
you have to do more typing in pretty much all cases how can it possibly be
quicker?

Personally i believe that VB developers are overall more modest an
logical thinking people , they can see that every language suits a
certain need , we are more multicultural in terms of programming
languages , however the bashers that come by in this group seem to
believe in only one super language and everything else has no right of
existence and is inferior .

Who said anything about 1 superior langauge? Obviously you can't say C++
is superior to C# because both serve a different purpose. C++ is superior
for writing drivers while C# could be considered superior for writing
windows apps. However seeing VB and C# are pretty much the same and do the
same task I think you can say that C# is the better choice.

Interesting that you brought up this example and then snip it in your
reply....

Huh ? wel for the sake of your case you forgot the other points i made
like "optional and named parameters "

Actually I thought that was covered in my statement that VB has the
occasional saving in typing but these cases are rare when you have written
Dim, End If, Next, Function, Sub, Property etc 1000+ times in day (no
exaggeration!).

cause you do not have a valid alternative, for optional you could have
argued that method overloading is the valid way to mimic the same
behavior , however this costs a lot more typing and would be pathetic in
contradiction to your above argument, so good for you that you did not
step in that trap

Personally I much prefer not to have optionals and in 10+ years of
programming I can't remember ever using named parameters.

But a lot more typing in VB ? hmmmm

if (Object.ReferenceEquals(a, b))
{
// variables refer to the same instance
}

VS If a Is b Then
' variables refer to the same instance
End If

Great, I can't remember ever using ReferenceEquals either.

if ((a == null && b == null) || (a != null && b != null) && a.equals(b))
VSIf a = b Then

I think you're confused there. Why can't I just do "if(a == b)"?

And about logic int [] ages = new int[n]; ( integer ages is new
integer in n dimensions )VS Dim ages(n) as Integer ( Ages in n
dimensions as integer ) why do i have to tell C# 2 times wich datatype
or object type it is dealling with ? Just some rare examples who seem to
be not so rare do they ?

Actually you've hit on the very point I was going to make. These are rare
when you compare it to the big ones such as Dim, Function, Sub etc that
you need to type over and over and over every day. It always seems that
the VBer point out the rare cases in an attempt to "prove" that there is
more typing in C#. You've pretty much proven this by bringing up the
ReferenceEquals case.

i can dig up a lot more if you want however honesty needs me to say that
i could also do the same against VB in favor of C# and ofcourse if ()
{ }is a lot shorter as If () ThenEnd if
But the VB IDE team found something verry smart for that , you only
type If () and press enter and the IDE does the rest , a true RAD
language in a true RAD environment by the way you can discuss whateveryou
want about the language but a true fact is that the IDE of VB is superior
to that of C# in every way

That's pretty much completely not true. Intellisense is very much inferior
in VB. I listed 10 significant problems with the VB intellisense in this
group and there was pretty much no response. In a newsgroup the closest
thing you get to agreement is a non-response.

That is also the reasson why VB was a bit behind on C# in some new
features as the 2 dev teams focussed on 2 different points , C# dev team
language enhancements , VB dev team getting all the nice features back
that the VB6 IDE already had ( background compilation

yuk! One of the best features of C# is the lack of background compile. A
lot of corporate machines are lagging behind in specs. I'm still on a
celeron 2.6 with 1gb ram at work while I have a quad core at home. VB was
downright slow on the celery while C# was quite acceptable.

, debug,pause , change and continue without recompiling etc etc etc... )

Didn't VB and C# get these features at the same time?

and then enhance the IDE so it has "more" to offer .

More wizards?

the simple fact that both dev >> teams give different priorities to some
implementations in the languages >> and syntaxtical> > The only real
advantage I can see with VB is the late binding office > automation
thing. I'm yet to try this to see what a real issue it is.yes indeed and
all other Automation , COM interop thingies especially when you want to
use Late bindingand ofcourse LINQ to XML wich is superior in VB at the
moment and

How is linq to xml superior in VB?

................ >> but i do not need C# fanboys in the VB groups
telling me that VB is less >> mature as C# they are brothers of the
same kind but it is mostly the C# >> coder running around as Kaïn , in
the end you might kill us, but it is >> Abel who is and stays the most
beloved in this group> > Then don't read this thread. I was asking a
valid question, with a complex > linq query you have to write Function(i)
over and over which is a pain.> > Michael IMHO : And when i reread the
thread and the responses from my fellow peers your posting is
interpreted as yetanother atack on the VB comunity , the Title was enough
for me to let me think "Oh no not again" oh.. another thingy about VB
developers in contradiction to "other" groups we are pretty social
peoplehere and like to keep the discussion nice and with respect to each
other . I hope you get my overall point i both love VB and C# i just
favor VB a bit more , i also wonder what will happen if F# developers
will behave how C# developers behave now towards VB developers .That
there are and will be differences between the diverse languages is a
common fact and as a smart developer once said "Language choice is as
much an emotional as a logical decision."RegardsMichel Posseth

For some reason the formatting here has gotten a little screwed up so I'm
not sure what part is your text and others.

Michael

 

[Martin H.]

Michel,

Eigenlijk een beetje hetzelfde als Engels en Nederlands.

Als je beide echter nooit hebt geleerd, dan zie je gauw dat het toch
allemaal wat anders is dan het lijkt voor degene die goed overweg kunnen
met deze talen.

Geef even een reactie Michel (in het Engels)?

Volle Zustimmung!

Beste Grüße,

Martin

 

[Michael C]

Michel,

Eigenlijk een beetje hetzelfde als Engels en Nederlands.

Als je beide echter nooit hebt geleerd, dan zie je gauw dat het toch
allemaal wat anders is dan het lijkt voor degene die goed overweg kunnen
met deze talen.

Geef even een reactie Michel (in het Engels)?

I'm really not sure what that is meant to prove. I presume you're speaking
dutch which would take me months or years to learn even though I already
know english. As opposed to C# which took me 1 single day to learn (from
knowing vb.net). If anything your post proves how similar C# and VB are. ie
most VBers could simply just start reading C# with minimal trouble (and vice
versa).

Michael

 

[Mike Williams]

I got stuck using VB.net in my current job (until we bought a
C# converter). What are you doing here Mike? Starting to try
some vb.net? 8 years on if you'd started on it back then you'd
be an expert by now.

Nope. Just nosing around. Personally I wouldn't use anything that is a
product of Micro$oft other than the stuff I already have.

Mike