Is it necessary to re-config my former PDC's Time Service settings

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When a Win2003 DC is introduced into a Win2000 domain, and the Win2003 DC is
set as the PDC Emulator, is it necessary to update Time Server settings on
the former, Win2000, PDC? Microsoft offers some guidance (details below),
but it seems to pertain only to Win2003 (the w32tm command switches aren't
supported in Win2000). What about the case where the 'previous PDC' is
Win2000? -- How do I 'demote' it as a Time Server? Is it automagic? How can
I verify it's working as planned ('net time /querysntp' indicates the new PDC
emulator -- is that adequate verification)?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Eggy

Here are details of Microsoft's instructions: First, configure Time Service
on 'new' PDC --
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windo...ef46-4931-8e4a-2fc5b4ddb0471033.mspx?mfr=true
then change Time Service on the previous PDC emulator --
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windo...c594-4d43-9195-e54e4cb89d251033.mspx?mfr=true
 
You should reconfig the 2000 PDCe to get its time from the new PDCe. As
long as it stays within 5 minutes of the time from the new PDCe Kerberos
will work fine, but I would fix it so the old DC gets its time from the new
PDCe.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
Paul,

Thanks. Can you tell me how to make the change on the Win2000 DC? That is,
what command(s) are needed on the Win2000 DC in order to configure it to get
it's time from the new PDC? The instructions referenced below are for
200*3*, and don't seem to work on 2000.

This issue has lead to other questions and I plan to post them also. I'll
post them separately but will put a link in this thread.

Thanks for your help.

Eggy


PS - I saw your web site piece about decommissioning Win2000 DCs. It's very
helpful -- concise and too the point. And you're right -- that IS a nice
a$$! ;)
 
What errors are you getting. I don't see where there should be any
differences.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
Paul,

Thanks again. Unfortunately this isn't a case where we're seeing clear
errors, just puzzling anomalies. Still several questions and gaps of
knowledge -- please pardon.

We're using four (mainly) methods in effort to determine what source a
Computer (meaning a PC, Member Server or Domain Controller):
1. "NET TIME"
2. "NET TIME /QUERYSNTP"
3. "NET TIME /DOMAIN:acme.lan"
4. "w32tm /resync" (or "w32tm -s" for Win2000), then check System Event Log
for report of time source.

Often these report different results; Sometimes the results aren't as
expected. For instance:
- In some cases NET TIME reports the source as a DC which is not the PDC
Emulator;
- NET TIME /DOMAIN:acme.lan never shows the PDC Emulator as the source [but
maybe I don't understand the command -- more research in order on my part']
- Event Log messages often report a source different than expected --
different
than that indicated by NET TIME commands;
- Often the source is indicated as our "SERVER1", a Win2000 DC which formerly
served as the PDC Emulator. The FSMO roles, including PDC Emulator, were
recently transferred to a new Win2003 server, DC01, a Win2003 DC.
- WinXP clients show SERVER1 as thier source (even though "NETDOM /QUERY
FSMO" reports that the client see DC1 as the PDC)

Obviously I still have research to do and info to collect. In the meantime
maybe you can offer some insight, particularly toward these questions:

1. Is there a definitive method (other than Event Log messages) to determine
which source a Computer is using as it's time source? That is, to verify
that it's using the PDC Emulator.

2. What tools exists for examining & diagnosing the mysteries of "Domain
Hierarchy-Based Synchronization"?

Thanks Again!
Eggy
 
You should be using w32tm for time management on 2003 and xp/vista. A
client gets its time from a dc not necessarily the PDCe, it should get it
from a dc in its site that is as much as you can rely on and from what I
have found the time usually comes from the authenticating dc.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...e+service"+debugging&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

Debug Logging
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/816043/en-us


http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=224799

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Eggy said:
Paul,

Thanks again. Unfortunately this isn't a case where we're seeing clear
errors, just puzzling anomalies. Still several questions and gaps of
knowledge -- please pardon.

We're using four (mainly) methods in effort to determine what source a
Computer (meaning a PC, Member Server or Domain Controller):
1. "NET TIME"
2. "NET TIME /QUERYSNTP"
3. "NET TIME /DOMAIN:acme.lan"
4. "w32tm /resync" (or "w32tm -s" for Win2000), then check System Event
Log
for report of time source.

Often these report different results; Sometimes the results aren't as
expected. For instance:
- In some cases NET TIME reports the source as a DC which is not the PDC
Emulator;
- NET TIME /DOMAIN:acme.lan never shows the PDC Emulator as the source
[but
maybe I don't understand the command -- more research in order on my
part']
- Event Log messages often report a source different than expected --
different
than that indicated by NET TIME commands;
- Often the source is indicated as our "SERVER1", a Win2000 DC which
formerly
served as the PDC Emulator. The FSMO roles, including PDC Emulator,
were
recently transferred to a new Win2003 server, DC01, a Win2003 DC.
- WinXP clients show SERVER1 as thier source (even though "NETDOM /QUERY
FSMO" reports that the client see DC1 as the PDC)

Obviously I still have research to do and info to collect. In the
meantime
maybe you can offer some insight, particularly toward these questions:

1. Is there a definitive method (other than Event Log messages) to
determine
which source a Computer is using as it's time source? That is, to verify
that it's using the PDC Emulator.

2. What tools exists for examining & diagnosing the mysteries of "Domain
Hierarchy-Based Synchronization"?

Thanks Again!
Eggy

Paul Bergson said:
What errors are you getting. I don't see where there should be any
differences.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Paul,

Again, thank you. Still some questions, but info was very helpful. The
article by Nathan Winters is especially good. Here are points I learned:

- Win2000 uses 'NET TIME', not wm32tm
- Win2003 uses wm32tm, not 'NET TIME'
- Client Computers sync time with their authenticating DC, not the PDC
Emulator (not like DC's, which do sync to PDC Emulator)

Still, some anomalies remain. For instance, on Client shows a login server
of DCx (PDCe & GC host), but time is sync'd from DCy (Win2000 DC; former PDCe
and former GC host). We're determining sync source in a roundabout way --
use 'w32tm /resync', then check System Event Log - if there is a better way
please advise.

Aside from this, most other aspects have been put back in order -- PDC, DCs
and Member Servers.

Thanks again,
Eggy



Paul Bergson said:
You should be using w32tm for time management on 2003 and xp/vista. A
client gets its time from a dc not necessarily the PDCe, it should get it
from a dc in its site that is as much as you can rely on and from what I
have found the time usually comes from the authenticating dc.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...e+service"+debugging&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

Debug Logging
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/816043/en-us


http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=224799

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Eggy said:
Paul,

Thanks again. Unfortunately this isn't a case where we're seeing clear
errors, just puzzling anomalies. Still several questions and gaps of
knowledge -- please pardon.

We're using four (mainly) methods in effort to determine what source a
Computer (meaning a PC, Member Server or Domain Controller):
1. "NET TIME"
2. "NET TIME /QUERYSNTP"
3. "NET TIME /DOMAIN:acme.lan"
4. "w32tm /resync" (or "w32tm -s" for Win2000), then check System Event
Log
for report of time source.

Often these report different results; Sometimes the results aren't as
expected. For instance:
- In some cases NET TIME reports the source as a DC which is not the PDC
Emulator;
- NET TIME /DOMAIN:acme.lan never shows the PDC Emulator as the source
[but
maybe I don't understand the command -- more research in order on my
part']
- Event Log messages often report a source different than expected --
different
than that indicated by NET TIME commands;
- Often the source is indicated as our "SERVER1", a Win2000 DC which
formerly
served as the PDC Emulator. The FSMO roles, including PDC Emulator,
were
recently transferred to a new Win2003 server, DC01, a Win2003 DC.
- WinXP clients show SERVER1 as thier source (even though "NETDOM /QUERY
FSMO" reports that the client see DC1 as the PDC)

Obviously I still have research to do and info to collect. In the
meantime
maybe you can offer some insight, particularly toward these questions:

1. Is there a definitive method (other than Event Log messages) to
determine
which source a Computer is using as it's time source? That is, to verify
that it's using the PDC Emulator.

2. What tools exists for examining & diagnosing the mysteries of "Domain
Hierarchy-Based Synchronization"?

Thanks Again!
Eggy

Paul Bergson said:
What errors are you getting. I don't see where there should be any
differences.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

Paul,

Thanks. Can you tell me how to make the change on the Win2000 DC?
That
is,
what command(s) are needed on the Win2000 DC in order to configure it
to
get
it's time from the new PDC? The instructions referenced below are for
200*3*, and don't seem to work on 2000.

This issue has lead to other questions and I plan to post them also.
I'll
post them separately but will put a link in this thread.

Thanks for your help.

Eggy


PS - I saw your web site piece about decommissioning Win2000 DCs. It's
very
helpful -- concise and too the point. And you're right -- that IS a
nice
a$$! ;)


:

You should reconfig the 2000 PDCe to get its time from the new PDCe.
As
long as it stays within 5 minutes of the time from the new PDCe
Kerberos
will work fine, but I would fix it so the old DC gets its time from
the
new
PDCe.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

When a Win2003 DC is introduced into a Win2000 domain, and the
Win2003
DC
is
set as the PDC Emulator, is it necessary to update Time Server
settings
on
the former, Win2000, PDC? Microsoft offers some guidance (details
below),
but it seems to pertain only to Win2003 (the w32tm command switches
aren't
supported in Win2000). What about the case where the 'previous PDC'
is
Win2000? -- How do I 'demote' it as a Time Server? Is it automagic?
How
can
I verify it's working as planned ('net time /querysntp' indicates
the
new
PDC
emulator -- is that adequate verification)?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Eggy

Here are details of Microsoft's instructions: First, configure Time
Service
on 'new' PDC --
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windo...ef46-4931-8e4a-2fc5b4ddb0471033.mspx?mfr=true
then change Time Service on the previous PDC emulator --
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windo...c594-4d43-9195-e54e4cb89d251033.mspx?mfr=true
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Time comes from a site dc not necessarily the authenticating dc. I don't
recall if the article said that but you can't rely on it coming from the
authenticating one. Although, from what I have seen it usually does (But I
haven't watch it in any long time).

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Eggy said:
Paul,

Again, thank you. Still some questions, but info was very helpful. The
article by Nathan Winters is especially good. Here are points I learned:

- Win2000 uses 'NET TIME', not wm32tm
- Win2003 uses wm32tm, not 'NET TIME'
- Client Computers sync time with their authenticating DC, not the PDC
Emulator (not like DC's, which do sync to PDC Emulator)

Still, some anomalies remain. For instance, on Client shows a login
server
of DCx (PDCe & GC host), but time is sync'd from DCy (Win2000 DC; former
PDCe
and former GC host). We're determining sync source in a roundabout way --
use 'w32tm /resync', then check System Event Log - if there is a better
way
please advise.

Aside from this, most other aspects have been put back in order -- PDC,
DCs
and Member Servers.

Thanks again,
Eggy



Paul Bergson said:
You should be using w32tm for time management on 2003 and xp/vista. A
client gets its time from a dc not necessarily the PDCe, it should get it
from a dc in its site that is as much as you can rely on and from what I
have found the time usually comes from the authenticating dc.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...e+service"+debugging&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

Debug Logging
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/816043/en-us


http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=224799

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

Eggy said:
Paul,

Thanks again. Unfortunately this isn't a case where we're seeing clear
errors, just puzzling anomalies. Still several questions and gaps of
knowledge -- please pardon.

We're using four (mainly) methods in effort to determine what source a
Computer (meaning a PC, Member Server or Domain Controller):
1. "NET TIME"
2. "NET TIME /QUERYSNTP"
3. "NET TIME /DOMAIN:acme.lan"
4. "w32tm /resync" (or "w32tm -s" for Win2000), then check System Event
Log
for report of time source.

Often these report different results; Sometimes the results aren't as
expected. For instance:
- In some cases NET TIME reports the source as a DC which is not the
PDC
Emulator;
- NET TIME /DOMAIN:acme.lan never shows the PDC Emulator as the source
[but
maybe I don't understand the command -- more research in order on my
part']
- Event Log messages often report a source different than expected --
different
than that indicated by NET TIME commands;
- Often the source is indicated as our "SERVER1", a Win2000 DC which
formerly
served as the PDC Emulator. The FSMO roles, including PDC Emulator,
were
recently transferred to a new Win2003 server, DC01, a Win2003 DC.
- WinXP clients show SERVER1 as thier source (even though "NETDOM
/QUERY
FSMO" reports that the client see DC1 as the PDC)

Obviously I still have research to do and info to collect. In the
meantime
maybe you can offer some insight, particularly toward these questions:

1. Is there a definitive method (other than Event Log messages) to
determine
which source a Computer is using as it's time source? That is, to
verify
that it's using the PDC Emulator.

2. What tools exists for examining & diagnosing the mysteries of
"Domain
Hierarchy-Based Synchronization"?

Thanks Again!
Eggy

:

What errors are you getting. I don't see where there should be any
differences.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

Paul,

Thanks. Can you tell me how to make the change on the Win2000 DC?
That
is,
what command(s) are needed on the Win2000 DC in order to configure
it
to
get
it's time from the new PDC? The instructions referenced below are
for
200*3*, and don't seem to work on 2000.

This issue has lead to other questions and I plan to post them also.
I'll
post them separately but will put a link in this thread.

Thanks for your help.

Eggy


PS - I saw your web site piece about decommissioning Win2000 DCs.
It's
very
helpful -- concise and too the point. And you're right -- that IS a
nice
a$$! ;)


:

You should reconfig the 2000 PDCe to get its time from the new
PDCe.
As
long as it stays within 5 minutes of the time from the new PDCe
Kerberos
will work fine, but I would fix it so the old DC gets its time from
the
new
PDCe.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

When a Win2003 DC is introduced into a Win2000 domain, and the
Win2003
DC
is
set as the PDC Emulator, is it necessary to update Time Server
settings
on
the former, Win2000, PDC? Microsoft offers some guidance
(details
below),
but it seems to pertain only to Win2003 (the w32tm command
switches
aren't
supported in Win2000). What about the case where the 'previous
PDC'
is
Win2000? -- How do I 'demote' it as a Time Server? Is it
automagic?
How
can
I verify it's working as planned ('net time /querysntp' indicates
the
new
PDC
emulator -- is that adequate verification)?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Eggy

Here are details of Microsoft's instructions: First, configure
Time
Service
on 'new' PDC --
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windo...ef46-4931-8e4a-2fc5b4ddb0471033.mspx?mfr=true
then change Time Service on the previous PDC emulator --
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windo...c594-4d43-9195-e54e4cb89d251033.mspx?mfr=true
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi

I can't recall the specifics for Windows 2000 but if you look at
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\W32Time\Parameters\Type and
it reads NT5DS, you're syncing of the domain heirarchy and all is well.
--
Kind regards
--
Mark Renoden [MSFT]
Windows Platform Support Team
Email: (e-mail address removed)

Please note you'll need to strip ".online" from my email address to email
me; I'll post a response back to the group.

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
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