is it fair to be asked to pay for upgade in a year?

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Does anyone else it is bit mean of Microsoft to ask people to test out Vista
for them in the real world through this Beta, then expect them to pay for not
just the upgrade, but perhaps the more costly full version?

Surely we should get it for free for helping them out?

:o)
 
Yes its fair.. nobody is forcing you to help them. Out of all the many
products I've helped beta from various companies rarely, if ever, did one
give testers the production version free of charge.
 
And how many bugs or other feedback have you submitted since downloading the
public beta? My guess is none, so why should they essentially pay you for this
when all you did was take up their bandwidth?
 
Dazza said:
Does anyone else it is bit mean of Microsoft to ask people to test out Vista
for them in the real world through this Beta, then expect them to pay for not
just the upgrade, but perhaps the more costly full version?

Surely we should get it for free for helping them out?
Click to expand...
Nobody held a gun to your head. If you don't like it, use Linux.
 
I think people missed the point of my post.

My comment was that people who are beta testing Vista "may" have to pay MORE
for the final version, as they may have to buy the full version rather than
the upgrade. Here in the UK the full version usually sells for £50+ more
than the upgrade.

I have beta tested lots of software and always given full feedback, reported
bugs and suggested solutions. In return I have always got either the final
version free, or a at discount by way of thank you. May be thats because, in
the main, I test out education software.

Again thats not really my point, it is the possibility of paying more and
actually being penalised for being a beta tester.

ps - Sorry for posting in 3 posts, it kept telling me the submission had
failed.
 
I don't think they have to give it away for free (though most games/apps I
beta tested did), but it'd be nice if we could have an incentive at the end,
like to be able to buy the retail copy for the price of an OEM or something
along the lines. Even if MS doesn't do that, I'm happy since it's been a good
experience so far (and one which can only get better as time goes on).
--
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I think people missed the point of my post.

My comment was that people who are beta testing Vista "may" have to pay MORE
for the final version, as they may have to buy the full version rather than
the upgrade. Here in the UK the full version usually sells for £50+ more
than the upgrade.
Click to expand...

There really is no need to do this, UNLESS you have never owned a copy
of XP, in which case you WILL need to purchase the Full Retail (or a
generic OEM) of Vista.
I have beta tested lots of software and always given full feedback, reported
bugs and suggested solutions. In return I have always got either the final
version free, or a at discount by way of thank you. May be thats because, in
the main, I test out education software.

Again thats not really my point, it is the possibility of paying more and
actually being penalised for being a beta tester.

ps - Sorry for posting in 3 posts, it kept telling me the submission had
failed.
Click to expand...

1) Those of us who are using the Community Public Preview of Vista are
NOT "beta testers', in the strictest sense of the word.
2) Microsoft does use "real" beta testers, both in-house (who are
paid), and through it's Private Beta program (who are not paid),
available to anyone who is accepted into the program by Microsoft. All
one has to do is apply. If you do have true Beta testing experience,
it will be a plus.
3) Microsoft also uses "beta testers" who are part of Microsoft's MSDN
(with an OS membership) and Microsoft's Technet. These people are all
developers, who PAY for their Betas, as well as the RTM.

Microsoft's philosophy is that the general public are getting the use
of one or more "Community Public Previews", plus the Release
Candidates, for a full year, for FREE. Why should they then GIVE the
OS away to hundreds of thousands of home users who are (mostly)
amateurs and hobbyists (most of whom did not engage in the Beta
program in any meaningful way, other than by installing the OS and
using it.)

As far as the RTM is concerned, it has always been possible to
purchase and install the newest Microsoft OS through an UPGRADE
version, which you will be able to purchase, if you so choose, rather
than the RETAIL edition.

As far as Microsoft UPGRADE editions are concerned, they ALWAYS
include EVERY "BIT" the FULL RETAIL editions contains, but can ONLY be
installed by proving ownership of a qualifying previous MS OS. This
is accomplished by simply inserting the previous version's media in
the drive if Setup fails to find a previous OS on the HD (or if you
have a "blank" HD, for that matter).


==

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
=====================================================
 
Yeah but if you read the terms and conditions it quite clearly says that you
may not be able to install the upgrade version in a years time, but have to
buy the full installation. Which will cost more than the upgrade version -
which is my point - perhaps I am not making it clearly enough ;o)
 
Yeah but if you read the terms and conditions it quite clearly says that you
may not be able to install the upgrade version in a years time, but have to
buy the full installation. Which will cost more than the upgrade version -
which is my point - perhaps I am not making it clearly enough ;o)
Click to expand...


Your "point" is truly meaningless, sir.
You need more experience with purchasing and using Wintel OSes like
Windows. Those of us who have been purchasing and using Windows for
years won't have to worry about purchasing a FULL RETAIL edition of
Vista when it is released to manufacturing.

I advise you to learn all the ins and outs of Windows Upgrade
Editions, rather than complaining about not being able to get a RTM
copy of Vista for free.

Obviously, you won't be able to use an Upgrade edition if you do not
have a previous license to XP. If you do, you will be able to.

Personaly, I think you are just looking for something to find fault
with Microsoft about.


==

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
=====================================================
 
I think the Op has a very valid point. I have been testing MS Betas since the
early kernals, and I don't believe that MS necessarily has the customer's
best interests at heart, but are in business to make as much money as they
can in as short a period as they can, like most other corporations.

Why flame him for stating his concerns? Bill doesn't care what you think.
Sir.
 
My query was around this clause

"Upgrade limitations
You may not be able to upgrade your installation of Windows Vista Beta 2 (or
RC1) to the final, commercially available edition of Windows Vista. To
upgrade you will need to acquire the final full edition of Windows Vista and
you may have to do a clean installation."

Does this mean I cant still purchase the cheaper upgrade version in a year?

I do indeed have a licensed version of XP at the moment a comment which I
felt was uncalled for.

Why is it that due to the annonimity of forums such as these, people feel
they can be as rude as they like, rather than discussing points in an adult
and civilised way.
 
My query was around this clause

"Upgrade limitations
You may not be able to upgrade your installation of Windows Vista Beta 2 (or
RC1) to the final, commercially available edition of Windows Vista. To
upgrade you will need to acquire the final full edition of Windows Vista and
you may have to do a clean installation."

Does this mean I cant still purchase the cheaper upgrade version in a year?
Click to expand...

The key is the words "upgrade your installation of Windows Vista Beta 2
(or RC1) to the final", meaning that you might not be able to install
the final Vista over an Beta 2/RC1 installation. However you will still
be able to perform an XP->Vista upgrade. The reason for this is that MS
does not want to burden themselves with ensuring that this upgrade-path
works since it will not be a common one, and they do not give any
guarantees whatsoever for beta software.
 
It means that the beta/RC1 version you install may not be upgradable,
for technical reasons. Microsoft does not wish to develop the code
necessary to upgrade a number of Vista versions (B1, B2, RC1, RC2,
etc) to the final version. You'll need to do one of the following:

1. Reformat your hard drive and install a full retail copy of Vista.
2. Upgrade your existing copy of XP.

Microsoft is providing a service to users here, by allowing them to
test and learn a new OS before it is released. If the users like,
they can supply feedback. Most of us have Vista installed on spare
machines or hard drives and continue to use our previous version of
Windows when we're not "playing" with Vista. We intend to install the
final version of Vista using either of the two steps above.
 
I think the Op has a very valid point. I have been testing MS Betas since the
early kernals, and I don't believe that MS necessarily has the customer's
best interests at heart, but are in business to make as much money as they
can in as short a period as they can, like most other corporations.

Why flame him for stating his concerns? Bill doesn't care what you think.
Sir.
Click to expand...

1) Is it valid that Microsoft should give away their software, which
they are spending billions of dollars to develop, just because one or
more stupid users were remiss in backing up their data?
2) Is it valid that it may not be possible to upgrade the Betas and
Release Candidates of Vista themselves? Of course it's valid.
Especially when it will STILL be possible to install Vista "clean"
using the Vista Upgrade Edition with an installation or CD of Windows
XP (either by installing it OVER XP on a HD or by inserting his
EXISTING FULL OEM or Full Retail CD when asked?)
3) Why should Microsoft make it possible for us to keep our data and
programs intact when one should NEVER install them in a test
environment in the first place without BACKING it up FIRST? Microsoft
tells us EXPLICITLY NOT to install Vista (or any of its pre-release
products) on our everyday working machines. So the OP was NOT without
warning from Microsoft, SIR.
4) I have in NO WAY "flamed" the OP. I simply tried to inform him
that he was mistaken in his opinion of Microsoft, and tried to give
him information ANY past "Beta tester" already should have. The fact
is, HE (and you) have bad attitudes, not me.
5) I have flamed YOU, SIR, since YOU should know better.


==

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
==========================================================
 
I'm sorry to see that you were slammed for your question, but I think you
recognized that the 'point of your question' was not particularly well
delivered.

The answer to your question has been addressed but in case there is any
confusion: you will be able to buy the upgrade if you fit the upgrade
criteria (almost surely from XP). Your note about the inability to upgrade
from the Beta is as pointed out, a legal disclaimer and forwarning that you
may not be able to perform the upgrade from the beta installation (i.e., you
must revert to XP, or do a clean install using the upgrade with the original
XP OS disk; the specific way will vary depending on how MS plans to deal with
the security issues of proper upgrading licenses).

Why you got flamed? I think you might want to know why you got flamed.
We're a community and well, perhaps a protective one. MS get's slammed for
everything. In this case, you were, wether you intended to, setting MS up for
a negative critique that was unfounded. How you phrased your question may not
have delivered your point well as it seemed encumbered with some emotion. I
and I think none of the others here want to see MS shy away from such a
public Beta program because of responses like yours, albeit a
misunderstanding. Such misunderstandings could lead MS to not offer a public
Beta in the future and this would hurt everyone! You see, with a public
Beta, MS gets to test the waters outside of the "controlled environment"
where variations in hardware and software is unlimited. As testers, we have a
little chance to see in advance the system, learn in advance, and of course,
help identify any problems that might be present which really should be
addressed but for some reason was overlooked (not likely?). In the end, all
consumers will benefit. Yes, so will Microsoft ... but in my opinion,
rightfully so ... they made an investment, have extended the public outreach
and consultation (which they really don't have to given the lack of
competitive alternatives).

It all comes down to writing clearly ... which I forgive I have not done
here. I'm a little rushed, but I think that my points should come across
properly.

Cheers
 
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