Is celeron okay?

[ralgam]

I was going to purchase a Dell inspiron 1100 or 1150, but then I
started reading about the celeron processor and thought maybe the
inspiron wasn't such a good idea. Here's my problem: I am not very
computer savvy, so I want to purchase a computer with good technical
support. But from what I've been reading, the only good technical
support is from Apple. Being that I have to buy a pc clone, what do I
do? (I'm only going to use the laptop for word processing, simple
spreadsheets, lots of web surfing, and burning some CDs.) Any advice
would be appreciated!

 

[JK]

I was going to purchase a Dell inspiron 1100 or 1150, but then I
started reading about the celeron processor and thought maybe the
inspiron wasn't such a good idea. Here's my problem: I am not very
computer savvy, so I want to purchase a computer with good technical
support. But from what I've been reading, the only good technical
support is from Apple. Being that I have to buy a pc clone, what do I
do? (I'm only going to use the laptop for word processing, simple
spreadsheets, lots of web surfing, and burning some CDs.) Any advice
would be appreciated!

Get one with an Athlon XP processor. You will get much better performance than a
comparably priced notebook with a Celeron processor. Apple is selling many
notebooks, however the prices on those aren't so low, and there is much more
software available for a pc than for a Mac.

 

[Al Dykes]

Get one with an Athlon XP processor. You will get much better performance
than a comparably priced notebook with a Celeron processor. Apple is
selling many notebooks, however the prices on those aren't so low, and
there is much more software available for a pc than for a Mac.

To say "purchase a laptop with an athlon" is not much help to the OP
since the quality and support have everything to do with brand, not
the CPU. The OP's hot button is support, and Dell generally does that
better than most. Dell is on everyone's short list of good x86
laptops, along with Toshiba and IBM.

Apple got top marks on the recent PC Magazine support satisfaction
survey. You can bring $1200 to the Apple store and come out with a
very nice laptop. There are not many $1200 x86 laptops I'd want.
An Apple will save the OP save $40/year by avoiding the expense
of AV software.

To say there is "lots more software for the PC" is questionable, and
irrelevant unless the OP wants to do something that MAC can't do,
which these means business applications and some games.

Celeron is fine in a laptop, if it's a good laptop, and you are going
to do word processing, internet browsing, and email.

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

I was going to purchase a Dell inspiron 1100 or 1150,
but then I started reading about the celeron processor
and thought maybe the inspiron wasn't such a good idea.

Entirely reasonable. I believe Intel has significantly
improved the Celeron with their 300 series. The earlier
ones were truly crippled. If you want a Dell, then
consider a Pentium M. AFAIK, Dell doesn't sell AMD.

Here's my problem: I am not very computer savvy, so I
want to purchase a computer with good technical support.

Is HPaq that much worse than Dell? Their AMD Athlon XPs
are very cost effective.

But from what I've been reading, the only good technical
support is from Apple.

Naturally! You pay more, and they have a _much_ better
operating system. But beware, they still also have highly
biased fans around.

-- Robert

 

[Robert Myers]

I was going to purchase a Dell inspiron 1100 or 1150, but then I
started reading about the celeron processor and thought maybe the
inspiron wasn't such a good idea. Here's my problem: I am not very
computer savvy, so I want to purchase a computer with good technical
support. But from what I've been reading, the only good technical
support is from Apple. Being that I have to buy a pc clone, what do I
do? (I'm only going to use the laptop for word processing, simple
spreadsheets, lots of web surfing, and burning some CDs.) Any advice
would be appreciated!

The "Help Me Choose" for on the Dell4Me page says that the Celeron on
the 1150 has 128K cache (as opposed to 512K cache in the offered mobile
P4). I wouldn't; the NetBurst (P4) architecture is really crippled with
such a small cache.

Whether _you_ can get by with the Celeron is more a matter of your own
style than of the machine. If the applications really are as
undemanding as you imply, and if you really can't spare the extra $150
for the P4, you'll get by with the Celeron. Neither machine would be my
choice, but you probably don't want to spend the money for a Pentium-M.

Technical support? Make friends with somebody who knows what they're doing.

RM

 

[chrisv]

Naturally! You pay more, and they have a _much_ better
operating system. But beware, they still also have highly
biased fans around.

c/biased/rabid/

8)

 

[JK]

To say "purchase a laptop with an athlon" is not much help to the OP
since the quality and support have everything to do with brand, not
the CPU. The OP's hot button is support, and Dell generally does that
better than most.

Others would disagree with that.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

Dell is on everyone's short list of good x86
laptops, along with Toshiba and IBM.

Apple got top marks on the recent PC Magazine support satisfaction
survey. You can bring $1200 to the Apple store and come out with a
very nice laptop.

Or one can spend $699(after rebates) for an Athlon XP notebook
with a 15" screen, or $599 at Walmart for one with a smaller
screen and slower cpu. $699 vs $1200 is a huge price difference.

There are not many $1200 x86 laptops I'd want.
An Apple will save the OP save $40/year by avoiding the expense
of AV software.

To say there is "lots more software for the PC" is questionable

Questionable? Why are you in doubt?

, and
irrelevant unless the OP wants to do something that MAC can't do,
which these means business applications and some games.

Those are extremely popular software categories.

Celeron is fine in a laptop

Fine? Why? Why settle for less performance in that price range than
you can get with an Athlon XP notebook?

, if it's a good laptop, and you are going
to do word processing, internet browsing, and email.

With that logic, someone should buy a $300 4 year old used notebook.

 

[JK]

Oops. I posted the wrong link in my previous post.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1867.html

 

[ralgam]

Get one with an Athlon XP processor. You will get much better performance than a comparably priced notebook with a Celeron processor.

What manufacturer would you recommend, considering I may need to use
the technical support?

 

[George Macdonald]

To say "purchase a laptop with an athlon" is not much help to the OP
since the quality and support have everything to do with brand, not
the CPU. The OP's hot button is support, and Dell generally does that
better than most. Dell is on everyone's short list of good x86
laptops, along with Toshiba and IBM.

Dell got crossed off our list a while back - too many probs which, given
inability to correct (e.g. drifting cursor etc.), seemed to indicate
endemic faults.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[ralgam]

Technical support? Make friends with somebody who knows what they're doing.

RM

You mean like you guys?

Seriously, if price is the same, where would you recommend I purchase
the laptop.. Compusa, Best Buy, Staples, Circuit City? Which would
give me the best service if there is something wrong with the laptop?

 

[Al Dykes]

Robert Myers <[email protected]> wrote in message news:

You mean like you guys?

Seriously, if price is the same, where would you recommend I purchase
the laptop.. Compusa, Best Buy, Staples, Circuit City? Which would
give me the best service if there is something wrong with the laptop?

I'd avoid these stores like the plague. I think laptops are best
bought on the web or by phone directly from the manufacturer or a
reputable computer equipment distributer (CompUSA doesn't fall into
that catagory, Newegg does, IMO.)

If you selct a model and customize it on the manufacturer's website
then call a human salesman and keep chat with him you might find they
have a special deal "today only". It's also worth asking what kind of
other hardware or software they can bundle in with the laptop.

I recommend extended warranty, but only from the manufacturer. The
store-brand warranty will be a pain to use if you need to use
it. trust me.

It's also worth looking on ebay for the "stores" IBM and Dell have
remainder and referb models on a regular basis and if you know what
you are shopping for they can be a good deal. WHen I checked, once,
I found that I could buy an IBM laptop on ebay and then call up IBM
withinn 30 daya and buy the extended warranty.

There are lots of business-grade laptops out these that have come off
3-year lease. The major problem I have with used laptops is the
battery is dead.

 

[Robert Myers]

You mean like you guys?

Seriously, if price is the same, where would you recommend I purchase
the laptop.. Compusa, Best Buy, Staples, Circuit City? Which would
give me the best service if there is something wrong with the laptop?

There is really no place that I would recommend to buy a laptop.
Wherever I decided to buy, I'd scrutinize the terms of the warranty
carefully and ask as many questions as I could think of about what
actually happens when something goes wrong. What terms are acceptable
is going to depend on how much risk, hassle, delay, and uncertainty you
can live with. There is no way to buy a laptop that does not involve
risk and uncertainty and a substantial possibility of hassle and serious
delay if there is a problem. If you can't live with those things, you
shouldn't buy a laptop.

As to tech support, don't plan on much hand-holding from the
manufacturer. On the margins at which PC's are sold, a manufacturer who
included realistic tech support to a naive user would soon be out of
business. Against that dour assessment, google and the internet are
your friends if you can't find a friend locally.

As compared to the laptop you originally inquired about, gateway offers
an attractive alternative (although the link hints darkly that
availability may not be certain):

http://www.gateway.com/home/deals/offers/m520cs.shtml

The m520cs comes with a Celeron D processor, which has 256k of cache, as
opposed to the 128k of the Dell you inquired about. The price is lower,
and the performance of the Celeron D, while not wonderful, should be
accpetable.

RM

 

[Tony Hill]

I was going to purchase a Dell inspiron 1100 or 1150, but then I
started reading about the celeron processor and thought maybe the
inspiron wasn't such a good idea.

Generally speaking, it's not. To give you an idea for comparison, a
laptop with a Celeron 2.6GHz processor would perform about on-par with
a laptop using a P4 1.4GHz processor The Celeron gives you a BIG
performance hit.

The new Desktop Celeron D 300-series isn't quite so bad, and maybe
even halfway reasonable for the cost (though still no speed demons),
but I don't think that they've made it to the notebook line yet, so if
you get a Celeron notebook now you're stuck with the old, hunk-of-crap
chips.

Ohh, though if you can find one, the Celeron-M chips are decent. The
Celeron-M 1.3GHz will be faster and consume have longer battery life
than the "Mobile Celeron" 2.6GHz processor. The best chip for laptops
though are the Pentium-M chips (often marketed under the whole
"Centrino" brand name).

If you can, jumping up to the Inspiron 600m or 8600 lines would be a
much better buy IMO.

Here's my problem: I am not very
computer savvy, so I want to purchase a computer with good technical
support. But from what I've been reading, the only good technical
support is from Apple.

I'm not even sure that Apple has good technical support, maybe just
less bad than the others! Tech support is *expensive* and consumers
have demonstrated that they aren't willing to pay for good support.
End result, you get crappy support from some dude at a call center in
India who's cousin got him the job even though he doesn't know
anything about computers.

Being that I have to buy a pc clone, what do I
do? (I'm only going to use the laptop for word processing, simple
spreadsheets, lots of web surfing, and burning some CDs.) Any advice
would be appreciated!

Personally if I were buying a laptop now I would probably aim for
IBM's Thinkpad R series. Reasonable price, decent size screen, good
performance and battery life and IBM's support is probably as good as
anyone else's in the PC business (as mentioned above though, that's
not saying much).

Actually, scratch that, if I were buying a laptop it would be an Apple
iBook, but if I needed a PC, then I would probably go for the
above-mentioned IBM R series.

 

[Tony Hill]

Oops. I posted the wrong link in my previous post.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1867.html

For comparison, here's HP:

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1397.html

IBM:
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1335.html

Toshiba:
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller745.html

Hmm.. in coma prison, Dell doesn't look so bad.. Oh, and here's for
Apple:
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1725.html


That kind of proves the original posters point.

 

[Klaus Fehrle]

JK <[email protected]> wrote in message

performance than a comparably priced notebook with a Celeron processor.

What manufacturer would you recommend, considering I may need to use
the technical support?

HPQ would probably fit best for what you look for. Mature designs,
competitive prices, support and warranty and a choice of CPUs beyond just
one manufacturer.

K.

 

[ralgam]

As compared to the laptop you originally inquired about, gateway offers

an attractive alternative (although the link hints darkly that
availability may not be certain):

http://www.gateway.com/home/deals/offers/m520cs.shtml

The m520cs comes with a Celeron D processor, which has 256k of cache, as
opposed to the 128k of the Dell you inquired about. The price is lower,
and the performance of the Celeron D, while not wonderful, should be
accpetable.

RM

I followed up on RM's advice and checked into the Gateway deal. The
following is what they offer for $949 with the rebate. What do you
guys think? Any changes I should make to the specs, given my light
usage?(And should I spring for the extended 3-year warranty for an
extra $160?)

Gateway M520CS Plus

PRODUCT DETAILS

Rebate: $100 Mail-In Rebate (Limited Time Promotion -- not
reflected in price)

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Application Software: Microsoft® Works 7.0
AntiVirus Software: Norton AnitVirus 90 day introductory offer
Processor: Intel® Celeron® D Processor 325 (2.53GHz)
Memory: 512MB DDR SDRAM (2-256MB modules)
Hard Drive: 60GB 4200rpm Ultra ATA hard drive
Floppy Drive: Integrated 6-in-1 card reader
Optical Drive: Integrated 24x/10x/24x CD-RW / 8x DVD combo
Extended Service Plan Including Limited Warranty: Notebook Value
Service Plan -- 1 year parts/labor/no on-site/1 year technical support
Expansion Slots: One type II PC card slot
External Ports: (4) USB 2.0, VGA, IEEE 1394 (FireWire)
Screen: 15" XGA TFT Active Matrix
Video: Integrated Intel® graphics with 32MB UMA memory technology
Keyboard and Mouse: Full-Sized Keyboard and EZ Pad® Pointing Device
Multimedia Package: Integrated sound and stereo speakers,
headphone/speaker jack, and mic jacks
Speakers: External speakers not selected
Battery: High-capacity lithium ion battery with AC pack and 1 yr.
limited battery warranty
Modem: Integrated V.92 56K modem
Network Adapter: Integrated Intel® 10/100 Ethernet Adapter
Internet Service Provider: Six months America Online® Internet
access
Integrated Wireless Networking Adapter: Integrated 802.11b/g
wireless networking card

ADDITIONAL TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Processor:
Intel® Celeron™ D processor 325

System Architecture:
Intel® 82852GME system chipset
PCI bus v2.2

Bios:
AMI® 52.00.06
512kb Fflash Rom
SMBIOS (DMI) 2.3 support
ACPI 2.0 support
Wired for Management 2.0

Display:
15.0" XGA TFT Active Matrix Color Display
Max resolution: 1024 x 768
Max color depth: 32-bit (16.7million colors)

Audio:
Conexant AMOM audio chipset
Soundblaster® Pro, Midi and Windows® Sound System Compatible
3D sound support
64-channel wavetable synthesis
Integrated speakers
Headphone and external microphone ports
Line-in jack
Keyboard volume and mute controls

I/O Ports:
1 x IEEE 1394 (4 pin)
1 x type II PC card slot
4 x version 2.0 USB ports
VGA port
1 x RJ11
1 x RJ45
Headphone jack
Microphone jack
Line-in jack
Kensington lock
Power input

Dimensions:
14"(W) x 10.4"(D) x 1.6"(H)

Weight :
7.5 pounds (with combo drive and 8-cell battery)

Power supply:
19VDC, 6.3A, 120 W output
100-240V input voltage
50/60hz frequency

System management:
SMBIOS 2.3 BIOS support
ACPI v2.0 Power Management support
Intel landesk® Client Manager 6.0
Wake-on-LAN from S3 power mode
WFM v2.0

 

[Tony Hill]

I followed up on RM's advice and checked into the Gateway deal. The
following is what they offer for $949 with the rebate. What do you
guys think?

Definitely better than the Dell's you were looking at, at least from a
component standpoint. I don't know how the quality compares to Dell,
though I doubt it's much different. Dell, HPaq and Gateway have
probably all completely outsourced their notebook design/production to
Compal or Quanta in Taiwan anyway, so their probably more or less
identical.

Any changes I should make to the specs, given my light
usage?(And should I spring for the extended 3-year warranty for an
extra $160?)

IMO yes. Notebooks are *expensive* to service when they are out of
warranty.

Gateway M520CS Plus

PRODUCT DETAILS

Rebate: $100 Mail-In Rebate (Limited Time Promotion -- not
reflected in price)

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Application Software: Microsoft® Works 7.0
AntiVirus Software: Norton AnitVirus 90 day introductory offer
Processor: Intel® Celeron® D Processor 325 (2.53GHz)

Should be quite a bit faster than the old-style 2.6GHz Celeron in the
Dell.

Memory: 512MB DDR SDRAM (2-256MB modules)

Good! 512MB is the minimum I would aim for these days.

Hard Drive: 60GB 4200rpm Ultra ATA hard drive

If you can get a 5400rpm drive instead here, you would probably be
better off. Even a 40GB drive should be large enough, but a fast hard
drive is one of the most noticeable improvements you can make when it
comes to the warm, fuzzy feel of the computer being fast.

Floppy Drive: Integrated 6-in-1 card reader
Optical Drive: Integrated 24x/10x/24x CD-RW / 8x DVD combo
Extended Service Plan Including Limited Warranty: Notebook Value
Service Plan -- 1 year parts/labor/no on-site/1 year technical support
Expansion Slots: One type II PC card slot
External Ports: (4) USB 2.0, VGA, IEEE 1394 (FireWire)
Screen: 15" XGA TFT Active Matrix
Video: Integrated Intel® graphics with 32MB UMA memory technology
Keyboard and Mouse: Full-Sized Keyboard and EZ Pad® Pointing Device
Multimedia Package: Integrated sound and stereo speakers,
headphone/speaker jack, and mic jacks
Speakers: External speakers not selected
Battery: High-capacity lithium ion battery with AC pack and 1 yr.
limited battery warranty
Modem: Integrated V.92 56K modem
Network Adapter: Integrated Intel® 10/100 Ethernet Adapter

All of the above seems fairly standard, all should be reasonable. You
might find the video card a bit weak if you were playing some games,
but for how you've described your needs it should be quite sufficient.

Internet Service Provider: Six months America Online® Internet
access

Please do not sign up for this! Somehow using America Online seems to
lower people's intelligence! :>

Integrated Wireless Networking Adapter: Integrated 802.11b/g
wireless networking card

Nice addition, should be useful in the future even if you don't have
wireless right now.

Weight :
7.5 pounds (with combo drive and 8-cell battery)

Keep in mind that this is fairly heavy. You won't want to be lugging
this around too much, though if it will mostly be used at a desk and
just needs occasional transport than it should be fine.

 

[nobody]

To say "purchase a laptop with an athlon" is not much help to the OP
since the quality and support have everything to do with brand, not
the CPU. The OP's hot button is support, and Dell generally does that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
better than most. Dell is on everyone's short list of good x86
laptops, along with Toshiba and IBM.

Apple got top marks on the recent PC Magazine support satisfaction
survey. You can bring $1200 to the Apple store and come out with a
very nice laptop. There are not many $1200 x86 laptops I'd want.
An Apple will save the OP save $40/year by avoiding the expense
of AV software.

To say there is "lots more software for the PC" is questionable, and
irrelevant unless the OP wants to do something that MAC can't do,
which these means business applications and some games.

Celeron is fine in a laptop, if it's a good laptop, and you are going
to do word processing, internet browsing, and email.

With all my due respect your opinion is quite outdated. Maybe Dell
support used to be good a few years ago (even that was quite
questionable). However _now_ that Dell sent off its customer support
to India it's quality is, well, Indian, to say the least. The
corporate lines of equipment, including Latitude notebooks, are still
being supported stateside (the corporate ITs went berserk when Dell
attempted to route their support requests to India, so Dell
backpedaled on that). But these are in a way higher price range.
Besides, all today's laptops are manufactured on Taiwan these days. I
am sure one can find the same Inspirion, just without Dell logo, much
cheaper somewhere on the Internet. Try Pricewatch.com search. Look
at the spec, not the logo. That said, I'd rather go for Athlon-based
notebook, unless extra long battery life is a must - in that respect,
Centrino is unbeatable.

 

[Tony Hill]

With all my due respect your opinion is quite outdated. Maybe Dell
support used to be good a few years ago (even that was quite
questionable). However _now_ that Dell sent off its customer support
to India it's quality is, well, Indian, to say the least. The
corporate lines of equipment, including Latitude notebooks, are still
being supported stateside (the corporate ITs went berserk when Dell
attempted to route their support requests to India, so Dell
backpedaled on that).

Note that this is true for basically all the major OEMs these days.
For US customers, consumer-grade products have had their support in
call centers in India while corporate-grade products have their call
centers in Canada. In fact, I know for certain that at least some
HPaq business computers are supported in India as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Support is *EXPENSIVE*!
Most people don't realize just how expensive it is. To give you an
idea, calling a tech support center in Canada usually costs the
company over a dollar (US) for every minute on the phone. given that
most PCs sell with a profit margin of something like $20, two calls to
support or a single replacement part usually blows away all the profit
made on that PC. US call centers are even more expensive, while those
in India probably drop the per-minute cost down to about $0.75 (very
rough guess).