iPod Question

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Actually, the question's directed at iPods and similar mp3 devices. I'm
looking for one for my son, but I've heard that some of these things do one
or more of the following nasty things:

1) Require proprietary software for transferring mp3 files to the music
player

2) Somehow "commandeer" your computer, forcing you to use certain software
to continue listening to mp3s on the computer, when you didn't need to do
that before

I'm hoping to find a device that simply behaves like a hard drive. Copy the
files, listen to them, with no bullshit. Can anyone recommend brands worth
looking at?

 

[Rod Speed]

Actually, the question's directed at iPods and similar mp3 devices.
I'm looking for one for my son, but I've heard that some of these
things do one or more of the following nasty things:

1) Require proprietary software for transferring mp3 files to the music player

Nope, even the ipod doesnt, tho its certainly easier to use iTunes.

2) Somehow "commandeer" your computer, forcing you to use certain software to continue listening
to mp3s on the computer, when you didn't need to do that before

Nope, none do that.

I'm hoping to find a device that simply behaves like a hard drive. Copy the files, listen to them,
with no bullshit.

Then avoid ipods. The brat may not be too thrilled tho.

Can anyone recommend brands worth looking at?

It isnt about brands for what you want.

 

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Nope, even the ipod doesnt, tho its certainly easier to use iTunes.


Nope, none do that.


Then avoid ipods. The brat may not be too thrilled tho.


It isnt about brands for what you want.

What's it about (referring to your last question)? The goal here (at first)
is for him to be able to use the 1000 or so songs he now has on the hard
disk, and copy them as required, to the mp3 device. How does the iTunes
software enter into this process?

 

[Paul]

What's it about (referring to your last question)? The goal here (at first)
is for him to be able to use the 1000 or so songs he now has on the hard
disk, and copy them as required, to the mp3 device. How does the iTunes
software enter into this process?

Articles on Wikipedia, can answer some of your general questions.
But the correctness of the info, or the bias of the writer,
are also an issue. Consider an article like this as a starting
point in your research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itunes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune

There seems to be more emphasis on "import" than "export" with those
technologies. Which is fine for simple player purposes. But one
thing to research, is what happens when you "buy a tune" in a
proprietary format, and wish to use that music on more than one
type of output device. For example, some previous Microsoft music,
cannot be played on Zune, their own player. While buying individual
tunes can be cheap, it is still possible for the music to "get lost"
in the technology, and be orphaned. That is a bit different than buying a
CD with music on it, and being able to pop it into the
stereo, or your computer's CDROM tray (although there are
still intrusive DRM schemes possible for music CDs - and too many
of them for me to keep track).

Another thing to consider, is MP3 format is not lossless, so
once music has been encoded, the quality is limited by the
encoding bitrate chosen. If you have to move the content out of
the MP3 format, recompressing the resulting info, only makes
the playback quality worse. For quality purposes, it is best
to buy your music in an uncompressed format, so that there
is only one degradation step before loading the music player.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3

Pretty complicated, when all you want to do is listen to music
without compromises.

With Itunes, you may also want to investigate backup schemes, to
protect the library of music that is built up. With the "syncing"
scheme between the proprietary player, and the computer, there
have been cases where an empty player, causes the library on the
computer to be erased. So you may want to investigate whether
that kind of thing is still a problem, and how best to protect
the money invested in purchased online music.

Paul

 

[DaveW]

An iPod is NOT an mp3 device. It uses a proprietary file system for music
created by Apple, and required to listen to the tunes. What you ask for, a
simple file system simple, that behaves only like a harddrive does NOT
exist. You will frequently need to convert downloaded and recorded music
into another file format to fit the player you are using. Microsoft also
uses a proprietary file system for their music.

 

[Matthew Hicks]

Yeah, that would be wrong. There are many offerings that allow you to play
standard mp3 files. Any player that uses external media can be treated as a
harddrive, just select the files you want to have and copy them to the drive
that the media maps to on your PC. Stick the media back into your player
and it will recognize it and play it. Pretty simple. I use an old IRiver
(solid state) player that I like very much and it plays a couple of formats
including mp3 of course. It also has an FM tuner, which I use a lot. I
personally think iPods are overrated and that they lack some key features.


---Matthew Hicks

 

[kony]

Actually, the question's directed at iPods and similar mp3 devices. I'm
looking for one for my son, but I've heard that some of these things do one
or more of the following nasty things:

1) Require proprietary software for transferring mp3 files to the music
player

You want any player claiming it's "UMS" supportive. Many
are, it's not as though you have to pick among only a
couple, rather seek other desirable attributes of the player
then make sure it is UMS supportive too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_mass_storage_device_class

2) Somehow "commandeer" your computer, forcing you to use certain software
to continue listening to mp3s on the computer, when you didn't need to do
that before

If it supports UMS, and can play standardized formats like
MP3, you're ok... as there is no need to install any
software at all on the computer, it's used like a flash
thumbdrive would be. Once you do insert ANY CD into your
system, software that gets installed would have the
potential to change windows preferences for what plays back
certain audio formats. This is same situation as in past
years, that you'd uninstall the offending software and/or
reinstall your software player of choice to cause it to play
the preferred file types again, if not manually (Or in the
software's configuration menus) reassigning them.

I'm hoping to find a device that simply behaves like a hard drive. Copy the
files, listen to them, with no bullshit. Can anyone recommend brands worth
looking at?

Sandisk
http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1014)-MP3_Players.aspx

 

[Grinder]

What's it about (referring to your last question)? The goal
here (at first) is for him to be able to use the 1000 or so
songs he now has on the hard disk, and copy them as required,
to the mp3 device. How does the iTunes software enter into
this process?

You should first decide what sort of capacity you're wanting--that is
mostly brand independent, and can be used to narrow your choices.
Correlating song count to memory/drive capacity relies on a number of
factors--song length, sound quality, file format--but using 1 min = 1 MB
is a decent thumbnail. 1000 songs = 4000 mins = 4 GB.

4 GB is around the limit for the largest flash memory MP3 players out
there. Hard drive based players are any where from 2x to 20x as much.
If 4 GB really is enough, though, I would recommend going with the flash
memory player as they are cheaper, and less prone to failure. The
"regular" iPod is the only player from apple that uses a hard drive --
the rest are flash memory.

iTunes is software to manage your music, buy more music from apple, and
sync music with your iPod. Even though iPods can be configured to
function as removeable drives, music files must be copied into a certain
place and "registered" into an index file before the player can see
them. There are plug-ins for other applications (such as WinAmp) but
iTunes seems to be the least painful way to transfer music onto those
devices.

SanDisk has gotten a good rep for providing high quality players more
cheaply than Apple, and with more features. iRiver was also once highly
regarded in a similar vein. I can't personally vouch for any of those
players, but I'm certainly willing to pass along gossip.

My experiences with MP3 players has fallen into two groups: iPods, and
low-end flash players.

Although Apple gets thumbs up on the cool factor, I'm radically
underimpressed by the durability of their devices. Of the 5 hard drive
iPods I've been involved with, only one of them lasted for a whole year.
The others had to be warrantied. Apple was very good about living up
to their warranty, but still, 80% failure rate? The fifth player did
not make it to the two year mark. Informally I've been polling to find
out how many iPods have lasted more than two years. Of the 15 or so
people I've met that had purchased an iPod two (or more) years ago, only
two had ones that made it past that magic mark.

The three or four iPod shuffles I've encountered seem to have fared
better. I did have one that crapped after a few months, but it was
promptly replaced and has been in more or less continuous operation for
more than a year and a half. The others vary in age, but are working
well. I have very limited experience with the iPod nano, which
unfortunately, would be the model you would be shooting for to get 4 GB
of storage. Common wisdom for the nanos are that you buy screen
protection at the same time you buy the iPod.

Ok, so I've been interrupted about 400 times while trying to barf this
out, and now have to go, so I hope it makes some sense...

 

[Grinder]

A quick addendum:

I've used a Nomad MuVo 128 MB for about three years now -- it has never
failed me. It came with no software other than the driver and you
exclusively put music on it my manual copying them on it. It has no
means of using a playlist, so the order in which the songs play is
sometimes a bit screwy. The 256 MB, with FM support is similarly
reliable. If I were buying in the 4-6 GB range, I would seriously
consider the Zen Micro.

Recently I purchased a walmart branded (ilo is the brand name) 1 GB MP3
player for $50. It's a pretty good deal. You copy files on it as a
removable drives, as long as they aren't DRMed. It has a decent
multiline LCD display, good enough features, and can even take an
expansion card. (You can select either the onboard memory or the memory
card--it does not merge the music sets.) It also has the bonus of using
a standard AAA battery, so I don't have to worry about replacing some
weirdo battery pack that craps out.

One last word. Even if your kid is positive that 4 GB is enough, more
is still more when it comes to MP3 capacity.

 

[Rod Speed]

What's it about (referring to your last question)?

Deciding which of the non branded products does what you want to do.

Not a trivial exercise because by definition they wont normally be reviewed.

I choose to buy stuff like that from an operation that has as
x days no questions asked refund if you dont like the item.

The goal here (at first) is for him to be able to use the 1000 or so songs he now has on the hard
disk, and copy them as required, to the mp3 device. How does the iTunes software enter into this
process?

*IF* you have chosen to go for an iPod because you like the detail of
how its implemented in the player itself, and they are on the whole quite
well designed, its easier to use iTunes to do what you want to do with
existing mp3 songs he already has on his hard drive and to rip more
stuff he comes across from other's CDs etc than to use the alternatives
to iTunes ON AN IPOD.

The non ipods that are just hard drives as far as loading them is concerned
tend to not be as well designed for the most important operation, playing music.

iTunes has a rather elegant system for keeping a subset of what you have
on your hard drive in the iPod, and varying what is in the iPod for variety etc.
By definition you will always have much more not in the iPod than in it.

Its user interface is a bit counter intuitive for some operations, but it just takes
a bit of getting used to and doesnt stop you from doing what you want to do.

Depending on how old the kid is, you might want to consider how well he is
going to treat the player. Its a pretty rugged environment and if he's pretty
careless with his toys, there is something to be said for something thats
cheap to replace.

And the other consideration is how he will feel about a non iPod too.
Dont forget that he will be picking your nursing home |-(

 

[maradcliff]

Actually, the question's directed at iPods and similar mp3 devices. I'm
looking for one for my son, but I've heard that some of these things do one
or more of the following nasty things:

1) Require proprietary software for transferring mp3 files to the music
player

2) Somehow "commandeer" your computer, forcing you to use certain software
to continue listening to mp3s on the computer, when you didn't need to do
that before

I'm hoping to find a device that simply behaves like a hard drive. Copy the
files, listen to them, with no bullshit. Can anyone recommend brands worth
looking at?

For whatever this is worth, I just read a long thread on a windows98
newsgroup and supposedly you MUST have windowsXP to transfer music to
an Ipod. Someone mentioned there is some shareware that will allow
w98 to copy, but no one seemed to know what to download. I still use
win98, but never saw a need for an Ipod. I think they are only made
for kids under the age of 20. MP3s never sound that good anyhow. I'd
rather buy the recording, and when they charge $1 or more per song,
why even bother to download / buy blanks / burn / etc. Just buy the
Cd and be done with it.

 

[JoeSpareBedroom]

For whatever this is worth, I just read a long thread on a windows98
newsgroup and supposedly you MUST have windowsXP to transfer music to
an Ipod. Someone mentioned there is some shareware that will allow
w98 to copy, but no one seemed to know what to download. I still use
win98, but never saw a need for an Ipod. I think they are only made
for kids under the age of 20. MP3s never sound that good anyhow. I'd
rather buy the recording, and when they charge $1 or more per song,
why even bother to download / buy blanks / burn / etc. Just buy the
Cd and be done with it.

I agree about mp3 sound quality. The way SOME people compress their music, I
can hear the difference, and if it's extreme, it hurts. My son and I always
pay for real, legal CDs, because it's the right thing to do, but also
because the liner notes are often worth having. He likes to create his own
playlists from the CDs, kicking out the songs he doesn't like and keeping
the ones he does, so for him, the mp3 player's a cool thing. Lots of music,
small package.

The players are also good for musicians, when practicing with a band. There
are times when we need to hear a bit of a song for its chord changes, for
instance. Practice sessions go more quickly when we can just tap a button
and bounce among 40-50 songs, rather than have to sift through a pile of CDs
from separate artists. When we're exhausted at 10:00 PM, this is a great
thing.

 

[Grinder]

For whatever this is worth, I just read a long thread on a windows98
newsgroup and supposedly you MUST have windowsXP to transfer music to
an Ipod. Someone mentioned there is some shareware that will allow
w98 to copy, but no one seemed to know what to download.

There is a plug-in for WinAmp--both of which are free. (You can pay a
bit for WinAmp to get some extra features, but the standard version
works well enough.) Although the price is certainly right, the plug-in
can be a bit temperamental.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=106528

It is odd, though, that ml_ipod cannot be found in the plug-in section a
nullsoft's (the maker of winamp) site:

http://www.winamp.com/plugins/browse.php?search=yes&filter=C&query=iPod

I don't know if that means that the plug-in is not current, or if the
author of the plug-in doesn't want to have to keep resubmitting it, or
what. At any rate, I have used it on a win98 machine and it does work.

 

[kony]

I still use
win98, but never saw a need for an Ipod. I think they are only made
for kids under the age of 20. MP3s never sound that good anyhow. I'd
rather buy the recording, and when they charge $1 or more per song,
why even bother to download / buy blanks / burn / etc. Just buy the
Cd and be done with it.

You are not considering why they exist. It's not to "have
music", it's where you can take that music. A CD is too
large to take along in a portable player, though buying the
CD and making your own higher quality compressed tracks is
better than the typical quality you'd find downloading it,
or worse- when you do it yourself you get to decide how it
turns out, especially relating to how much space it takes up
on the player's internal hard drive or flash memory.

Some people just like music more than others, though if you
work in an area where a radio is allowed and/or travel by
your own automobile then your needs for truely portable
music are reduced.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

For whatever this is worth, I just read a long thread on a windows98 newsgroup
and supposedly you MUST have windowsXP to transfer music to an Ipod.
Nope.

Someone mentioned there is some shareware that will allow
w98 to copy, but no one seemed to know what to download.

Use google.

I still use win98,

Wota dinosaur.

but never saw a need for an Ipod.

More fool you.

I think they are only made for kids under the age of 20.

You're wrong. Anyone who wants a decent portable music system actually.

MP3s never sound that good anyhow.

Mindlessly silly.

I'd rather buy the recording, and when they charge $1 or more
per song, why even bother to download / buy blanks / burn / etc.
Just buy the Cd and be done with it.

Some get real radical and buy the music for their ipods.

And some dinosaur along with Win98 too.