IP4200 first impressions

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ray

I got an IP4200 from Office Max yesterday for $78 net after
rebates offers and taxes. It replaces the i850 that has a partially burnt
out printhead. Setup went easily. Auto alignment was easy.
Nozzle check no longer shows the condition of the color
nozzles as it did on the i850. Photo quality is noticeably sharper
than the i850. After 3 prints the some of magenta nozzles
clogged, no I did not refill the cartridges yet. Cleaning or deep
cleaning did not cure it. It was very obvious on printing out
a calibration chart of solid color block that I have printed many
times in the past. The nozzle check page really shows nothing.

Office Max was apologetic and exchanged
with no problem. Usually I do not buy extended warranties,
but with my experience with canon prints I feel it is better
than even money that I will be using it. Office Max gave me $10
off for my trouble. For some things it is better buying locally
rather than trying to save a few bucks buying on the net.
 
Office Max gave me $10
off for my trouble. For some things it is better buying locally
rather than trying to save a few bucks buying on the net.

It was no trouble for my mp760 which had issues. 2day air a base
replacement and I was printing again... which I admit actually took
more like 4 days given there was a weekend.

But given that quality of printers has gone down hill... given the
somewhat limited life of the printhead... the extended warranty stores
offer isn't such a bad idea in many cases.
 
It was no trouble for my mp760 which had issues. 2day air a base
replacement and I was printing again... which I admit actually took
more like 4 days given there was a weekend.

But given that quality of printers has gone down hill... given the
somewhat limited life of the printhead... the extended warranty stores
offer isn't such a bad idea in many cases.

This is an interesting subject as in the UK the Sale of Goods Act has
among other requirements, for Goods to be durable and applies up to
six years from date of purchase. I guess what would need to be
established with respect to Canon printers what is a reasonable life
expectancy of the printhead given it appears to be a consumeable.

Any opinions on what the consumer has a right to expect with respect
to printhead life?
 
I guess what would need to be
established with respect to Canon printers what is a reasonable life
expectancy of the printhead given it appears to be a consumeable.

Any opinions on what the consumer has a right to expect with respect
to printhead life

I have to admit i'm not up on UK law, though I have heard of the Sales
of Goods act. I honestly don't know how it would apply to the
printhead which is and let me quote the service manual for the ip4000

1-3. Product Life
(1) Printer
Specified print volume (I) or the years of use (II), whichever comes
first.
PIXMA iP4000
18,000 pages
Black 1,500 character pattern 7,200 pages
Color A4, 7.5% duty per color pattern 5,400 pages
A4, photo, borderless printing 300 pages
4 x 6, photo, borderless printing 3,600 pages
Postcard, photo, borderless printing 1,500 pages
(II) Years of use
PIXMA iP4000: 5 years of use
Print volume "same as above"

Note their method of testing is a tad lean. 1500 characters is barely
1/3 of a page of solid text. 3000 is closer to reality, perhaps 4000.

I know for example sparkplugs don't typicaly last much more than a few
years, though some of those NDKs in Nissans are designed to last 50,000
miles ish. But your typcial copper core ones... a year at the max.
That would sugest that while something solid state that requires no
maintance might be required to last 6 years... something like a printer
which does require consumables whether it be the printhead or the ink
cartradges may not directly apply.
 
zakezuke said:
I have to admit i'm not up on UK law, though I have heard of the Sales
of Goods act. I honestly don't know how it would apply to the
printhead which is and let me quote the service manual for the ip4000

1-3. Product Life
(1) Printer
Specified print volume (I) or the years of use (II), whichever comes
first.
PIXMA iP4000
18,000 pages
Black 1,500 character pattern 7,200 pages
Color A4, 7.5% duty per color pattern 5,400 pages
A4, photo, borderless printing 300 pages
4 x 6, photo, borderless printing 3,600 pages
Postcard, photo, borderless printing 1,500 pages
(II) Years of use
PIXMA iP4000: 5 years of use
Print volume "same as above"

Note their method of testing is a tad lean. 1500 characters is barely
1/3 of a page of solid text. 3000 is closer to reality, perhaps 4000.

I know for example sparkplugs don't typicaly last much more than a few
years, though some of those NDKs in Nissans are designed to last 50,000
miles ish. But your typcial copper core ones... a year at the max.
That would sugest that while something solid state that requires no
maintance might be required to last 6 years... something like a printer
which does require consumables whether it be the printhead or the ink
cartradges may not directly apply.

So, if I'm reading this right... that actually says that the printer is
pretty much beyond use when you've printer off 300 photos in A4...
That's just plain nuts! isn't it???
 
Martin said:
So, if I'm reading this right... that actually says that the printer is
pretty much beyond use when you've printer off 300 photos in A4...
That's just plain nuts! isn't it???

My guess is that Canon makes these page numbers lower than they really
are to give themselves a buffer. The head can likely print more sheets
(how many more I don't know) otherwise Canon would be replacing way too
many print heads under warranty.
 
Second printer worse than the first. None of the colors
work. A call to Canon did not resolve the problem.
 
So, if I'm reading this right... that actually says that the printer is
pretty much beyond use when you've printer off 300 photos in A4...
That's just plain nuts! isn't it???

You are not reading it correctly. They determine the printhead life as
being a culmination of these prints, not any one field. For example if
you printed no 4x6 and only a4, we can assume that 4x6 photo is equal
to there and abouts of 3.75 a4 (too lazy to do the math) so 3600 4x6
would be 960 a4s or so.

For example the last time I did the math these numbers were there about
equilivent to 10 cartridge changes, which given that a head on the
ip4000 is about $70... and there are 5 tanks, you'd be spending an
extra $1.40 per tank to replace the head at the offical end of duty
cycle.

We don't actually know how they measure a4 boarderless in terms of
yield, or 4x6 in terms of yeild. You may still think the numbers are
pathetic... I don't know. But the fact is it's a limited life product
well documented as a limited life product. There are other printers
who's heads are rated print volumes, and are worth considering if you
are trully a high volume user... users who print more than 1000 a4
prints/year for example.
 
Did all the inks light up?Any error messages?
Did you used the old inks from the original printer or the new cellophaned
units?
I did have a cyan cartridge that lit up when I clicked it in but started to
blink when I closed the cover .I had an amber error light come on.
Let us know!!!
 
zakezuke said:
You are not reading it correctly. They determine the printhead life as
being a culmination of these prints, not any one field. For example if
you printed no 4x6 and only a4, we can assume that 4x6 photo is equal
to there and abouts of 3.75 a4 (too lazy to do the math) so 3600 4x6
would be 960 a4s or so.

For example the last time I did the math these numbers were there about
equilivent to 10 cartridge changes, which given that a head on the
ip4000 is about $70... and there are 5 tanks, you'd be spending an
extra $1.40 per tank to replace the head at the offical end of duty
cycle.

We don't actually know how they measure a4 boarderless in terms of
yield, or 4x6 in terms of yeild. You may still think the numbers are
pathetic... I don't know. But the fact is it's a limited life product
well documented as a limited life product. There are other printers
who's heads are rated print volumes, and are worth considering if you
are trully a high volume user... users who print more than 1000 a4
prints/year for example.

I wonder about the actual print head life of Canon printers. I have an
N2000 printer that has a rated print head life of 50,000 sheets. I
don't see where the print head of an N2000 would be that much different,
technologically speaking, from say the iP4000. I wonder if Canon sets
the page life estimates for their consumer grade printers artificially
low to reduce the number of replacement heads they send out under warranty.
 
I wonder if Canon sets
the page life estimates for their consumer grade printers artificially
low to reduce the number of replacement heads they send out under warranty.

well IIRC... assuming we are talking canon here... the n2000 printhead
(qy6-1000) would be 1 inch wide. and costs in the ¥36,000 yen range..
or double that across the pond in America $700 or so. I'm sure
technology wise they are similar but given the fact that the qy6-0042
for the ip3000 is 1/10th the price I imagine there is some
justification to the increase in cost. Materials, production,
something along those lines above and beyond the what is it 1532
nozzles per color or 1/2 that for black? I don't know the exact number
but it's not in the same class as the qy6-042 at all.

Further... from my experence with canon they dont' ask you how much you
print when you complain about a clog, they just ship you a new head.

But the likely reason they are different is the n1000/n2000 are not
consumer printers but rater industerial ones... rackmountable IIRC,
designed to print without fail for those cases where downtime is not an
option. Something like the i850/ip3000, sub $100 printers you can get
away with being sloppy, use less in the way of material for the
heaters, and if some blow before the warranty is up it's no big deal.
 
All the inks had a steady red light. I used the new cartridges
that came with the printer. I was honest and returned the
first printer complete with the ink. I could see ink on the top of
the screen on the printhead none on the bottom. I did
get the 11 flashes that said it could not align the printhead
when I tried that in desperation. Cleaning or deep cleaning
did not help. I called Canon tech service. He walked
me through the setup procedure and concluded that the
printer was not functional. He wanted me to send it in
for service. I returned it for a full refund. Again there
was no hassle of shipping it back since I bought locally.
2 DOA in a row gave me bad vibes.

Staples had an IP5000 floor model for $100. I bought
that and it works perfectly. There is something strange
when the older model that has been used costs more than
the new model that it replaces. From the specs the 4200
and 5000 look the same. Staples 2 year extended warrantee
was $15. I have never bought one before, but I did on
this printer. I think there is a high probability that I will
be using it. Yes I am going to use MIS ink in it and refill
the cartridges. I don't care if it clogs the printhead
because I bought the insurance. The resident troll need
not reply because I don't see your responses.

First impression is that photos are sharper and less grainy
than the same picture that the i850 did before it died.
The duplex printing is a nice feature but little slow; it should
help save some trees. Overall a nicer and cheaper printer
than the i850 it replaces.
 
ray said:
All the inks had a steady red light. I used the new cartridges
that came with the printer. I was honest and returned the
first printer complete with the ink. I could see ink on the top of
the screen on the printhead none on the bottom. I did
get the 11 flashes that said it could not align the printhead
when I tried that in desperation. Cleaning or deep cleaning
did not help. I called Canon tech service. He walked
me through the setup procedure and concluded that the
printer was not functional. He wanted me to send it in
for service. I returned it for a full refund. Again there
was no hassle of shipping it back since I bought locally.
2 DOA in a row gave me bad vibes.

Staples had an IP5000 floor model for $100. I bought
that and it works perfectly. There is something strange
when the older model that has been used costs more than
the new model that it replaces. From the specs the 4200
and 5000 look the same. Staples 2 year extended warrantee
was $15. I have never bought one before, but I did on
this printer. I think there is a high probability that I will
be using it. Yes I am going to use MIS ink
I do not think that Staples extended warratny covers clogged printheads
from using a noname generic ink where you cannot tell them who made it.
in it and refill
the cartridges. I don't care if it clogs the printhead
because I bought the insurance. The resident troll need
not reply because I don't see your responses.
But others do and they need to know the truth. Hey everybody. Call
Staples and ask them if generic non recommended ink clogs the printhead
will they replace the printhead under the extended warranty.
 
zakezuke said:
well IIRC... assuming we are talking canon here... the n2000 printhead
(qy6-1000) would be 1 inch wide. and costs in the ¥36,000 yen range..
or double that across the pond in America $700 or so. I'm sure
technology wise they are similar but given the fact that the qy6-0042
for the ip3000 is 1/10th the price I imagine there is some
justification to the increase in cost. Materials, production,
something along those lines above and beyond the what is it 1532
nozzles per color or 1/2 that for black? I don't know the exact number
but it's not in the same class as the qy6-042 at all.

Further... from my experence with canon they dont' ask you how much you
print when you complain about a clog, they just ship you a new head.

But the likely reason they are different is the n1000/n2000 are not
consumer printers but rater industerial ones... rackmountable IIRC,
designed to print without fail for those cases where downtime is not an
option. Something like the i850/ip3000, sub $100 printers you can get
away with being sloppy, use less in the way of material for the
heaters, and if some blow before the warranty is up it's no big deal.

I don't know about the built of the print heads between Canon's
different printers but it doesn't seem to me that they wouldn't apply
different materials/technology from one head to another. I figured it
would be something like AMD and Intel manufacturers processors, one
design spurs several speed ranges and chip configuration.
 
I don't know about the built of the print heads between Canon's
different printers but it doesn't seem to me that they wouldn't apply
different materials/technology from one head to another. I figured it
would be something like AMD and Intel manufacturers processors, one
design spurs several speed ranges and chip configuration.

You could be correct... and when testing one set rated at one frequency
/ thermal speciications goes to the premium pile and the other gets put
into another pile. The screens are of a different size. For example
your n2000 is 4pl where... and I think we are talking a 3 year old
printer... the consumer grades were 2 and 5 and the qy6-1000 is 4pl.
The proGRAFF series I believe are 3pl also said to be "fine" where the
current set of consumer grades also "fine" are either 2pl and 5pl and
1pl and 5pl. Those simply would have to be on a different die.

What's left are the heaters and chamber assembly which frankly I know
squat about.
 
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