Internet Explorer 7 Beta 3

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Do I want to install IE7 Beta 3 on a Vista computer? Can I expect it
automatically as a Vista update?

I have Beta 3 running fine under XP.
 
It is not an update. Install it or not as you like. Set a System Restore
point before installing any new software.
 
System Restore sets the point automatically for you- if
you have the Vista Volume checked, which it is by default.
Just don't boot to XP. Unless, you have BitLocker turned on.


-Michael
 
What is bitlocker ? please explain tks
MICHAEL said:
System Restore sets the point automatically for you- if
you have the Vista Volume checked, which it is by default.
Just don't boot to XP. Unless, you have BitLocker turned on.


-Michael
Click to expand...
 
As long as you are not running both XP and Vista on the same computer the
issue Michael refers to will not occur. Other things, maybe.
 
What do you mean? Disabling XP's System Restore
doesn't protect Vista's restore points.

-Michael
 
IE7 Beta 3 is intended for Windows XP, not for Vista.

It's basically the XP version of Vista's IE.

-Reed Rinn
MVP Shell / User
 
I routinely go into XP every day or every other. My Vista restore points
have not been altered or deleted. I just assumed since I have restore in XP
disabled that was why.
 
Peter M said:
I routinely go into XP every day or every other. My Vista restore points
have not been altered or deleted. I just assumed since I have restore in XP
disabled that was why.
Click to expand...

How many restore points do you have? What are their dates?
Unless you have manually deleted Vista's restore points, you
should have a lot of saved points.

I have System Restore off in XP. But my Vista restore points are
*always* deleted when I boot to XP and then back to Vista- *unless*
I have BitLocker on.

I realize that I have been told what I am experiencing is not
related to BitLocker- I call bullshit. However, if you have XP
and Vista on the same drive- your restore points will be erased.
Well, unless.... you know what I'm about to say.

-Michael
 
Ahhh... okay, now I see my confusion. I didnt realize it had to be the same
drive. Xp is on a partion on hd0 and vista is on hd1. Thanks for the
clarification.
 
When you boot XP in normal mode volsnap.sys checks a number of items created
by the Volume Shadowcopy Service, including System Restore points on all
volumes it can (not hidden from XP by some means) for validity as defined by
XP volsnap.

There is an incompatibility between XP volsnap.sys and Vista volsnap.sys
such that Vista System Restore points appear to XP volsnap.sys to be
corrupted. The fact that the Vista volsnap.sys took the snapshots used by
the Vista System Restore means nothing to XP volsnap.sys so it deletes the
Vista SR points thinking to protect the user from trying to restore a
corrupted image in XP. Remember, XP has no clue as to what Vista is.

It makes no difference whether SR is turned off on XP becasue volsnap.sys is
not part of SR, it is the VSS driver. When SR wants to set a point it makes
a call to VSS and volsnap.sys takes the snapshot which SR then uses in
creating the restore point. Volsnap.sys runs regardles of whether or not SR
ever runs.

It is worth noting that VSS does not run when XP is in Safe Mode and indeed
when you are in Safe Mode you cannot set a restore point. You can restore
from an existing restore point in Safe Mode so clearly SR is running in Safe
Mode.

What Michael is saying is that the Vista volume must be hidden from XP to
prevent the XP volsnap.sys from seeing it when XP boots up (in anything but
Safe Mode). He is saying that BitLocker somehow serves this function or at
least prevents volsnap.sys from deleting the Vista restore points. I don't
argue that point.

The incompatibility between the XP volsnap.sys and the Vista volsnap.sys is
by design in order to expand VSS's functionality in Vista. The fix would
require backporting to XP and MS says that too much of XP would require
rewritting and they have made the decision not to do it.

So be prepared accordingly if you plan to dual boot XP and Vista on a
production machine once Vista releases. Given what I know, I don't plan to.
I don't know what else is out there that could be a problem for Vista.
 
Easy fix, Colin. You touched on it, but I have a dual-boot notebook set up
this way:

Use a robust, third-party boot manager (I use BootMagic) and hide the Vista
partition from XP and the XP partition from Vista in the preferences of
each, respectively. Additionally, if you do this at the onset of installing
the second OS, in this case Vista, there is no issue with boot file
modifications.

The only caveat is there is no way to back-up the Vista partition from the
XP partition automatically (that I have figured out yet!), but Vista's
back-up utillity seems to work without remark. I have not tried this with
VistaBootPro, as I have no need. Perhaps when RC1 rolls out I'll take some
time.
 
Some users may resort to "hiding". But it sure is much
easier to be able to access any file or folder on WinXP
from Vista. Yes, I have backups on an external drive.
Being able to shortcut your WinXP music, documents,
or picture folder to your Vista desktop makes things
so simple. Heck, there are *some* programs you can
run from Vista that are located in WinXP. Like Opera,
LimeWirePro, NeoTrace, and others.

I do have a question. With BitLocker turned on, XP shows
the Vista volume as just a drive letter. If you click on that Drive
letter, a dialogue box pops up saying the volume needs to be
formatted. Vista is "hidden" from XP. So, it would actually go
through with the format if you confirmed it, correct? I can see
some users not really understanding this, and either by accident
or because they may think they are suppose to, letting XP format
their Vista partition. Ouch!

Thanks for your input, Mark.

-Michael
 
MICHAEL said:
Some users may resort to "hiding". But it sure is much
easier to be able to access any file or folder on WinXP
from Vista. Yes, I have backups on an external drive.
Being able to shortcut your WinXP music, documents,
or picture folder to your Vista desktop makes things
so simple.
Click to expand...

Which is why I have my XP "My Documents" folder located on a separate
partition from any operating system and not hidden, so that I may access
anything I wish from either XP or Vista. In fact, this makes it so much
easier to grab programs and documents from either O/S and makes for a much
smaller footprint on the actual hard drive.
Heck, there are *some* programs you can
run from Vista that are located in WinXP. Like Opera,
LimeWirePro, NeoTrace, and others.
Click to expand...

Have not tried this, probably because I assumed there would be some sort of
regisrty issue with BootMagic renaming either O/S partition "C:\" at
boot-up. I'll give it a shot with Opera.

I do have a question. With BitLocker turned on, XP shows
the Vista volume as just a drive letter. If you click on that Drive
letter, a dialogue box pops up saying the volume needs to be
formatted. Vista is "hidden" from XP. So, it would actually go
through with the format if you confirmed it, correct? I can see
some users not really understanding this, and either by accident
or because they may think they are suppose to, letting XP format
their Vista partition. Ouch!
Click to expand...

An interesting situation. Although the partition itself is not hidden; the
data is merely encrypted. My theory, untested and uninformed as it is, is
that XP sees the partition but does not recognize the scramble of bits and
bytes and therefore assumes that the partition itself has not been
formatted. Extrapolate that farther and yeah, it probably would go through
the reformat process, because Vista and BitLocker are not running and
therefore unable to stop the process. It is good to know that BitLocker
encryption does indeed work!

I'll be playing with a complete test unit this weekend and try a few of the
scenarios you have suggested, just to see what happens. I have not done
anything with BitLocker yet.

I would suggest you report the whole SR point deletion to MSFT since
dual-booting will most likely be in many people's future and the
incompatibility of the Restore Points, as well as how the boot manager is
currently being deployed is not acceptable.
 
Mark D. VandenBerg said:
Which is why I have my XP "My Documents" folder located on a separate partition from any
operating system and not hidden, so that I may access anything I wish from either XP or
Vista. In fact, this makes it so much easier to grab programs and documents from either O/S
and makes for a much smaller footprint on the actual hard drive.
Click to expand...

Good suggestion.
Have not tried this, probably because I assumed there would be some sort of regisrty issue
with BootMagic renaming either O/S partition "C:\" at boot-up. I'll give it a shot with
Opera.
Click to expand...

Opera seems to work fine. I really like Opera.
An interesting situation. Although the partition itself is not hidden; the data is merely
encrypted. My theory, untested and uninformed as it is, is that XP sees the partition but
does not recognize the scramble of bits and bytes and therefore assumes that the partition
itself has not been formatted. Extrapolate that farther and yeah, it probably would go
through the reformat process, because Vista and BitLocker are not running and therefore
unable to stop the process. It is good to know that BitLocker encryption does indeed work!
Click to expand...

There are many things I like about Vista- BitLocker is one of them.
Although, I wish you could use it to encrypt other drives. I would like
someone to explain to me the difference between BitLocker and the
encryption you can do by clicking on the properties of a file, folder, or drive,
under the "General" tab their is an "Advanced" button and then an encrypt
check box. AES?

I also miss the ability to scan Vista from XP when Bitlocker is on, say
with NOD32. If Vista is encrypted and it gets wacked by something-
you can't diagnose the problem from XP. I am using Trend in Vista,
I just like having alternative options.
I'll be playing with a complete test unit this weekend and try a few of the scenarios you
have suggested, just to see what happens. I have not done anything with BitLocker yet.
Click to expand...

Would love to hear your results.
I would suggest you report the whole SR point deletion to MSFT since dual-booting will most
likely be in many people's future and the incompatibility of the Restore Points, as well as
how the boot manager is currently being deployed is not acceptable.
Click to expand...

I have done so.

Microsoft is well aware of this problem.


Take care,

Michael
 
But I kinda agree with Michael's concern. Murphy used Windows.

You think I learned how to do all this stuff out of curiosity? It's out of
Darwinism and paranoia!
 
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