Internal HDD in same machine for image backup of primary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Martin
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Martin

I have 2 HDDs in the same computer and I want to use one just to store an
image backup of the primary HD. It is currently set as a slave on cable
select.

What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or surge,
or some kind of interaction between the drives?

Comments and any ideas about preventing such problems will be appreciated.
 
Previously Martin said:
I have 2 HDDs in the same computer and I want to use one just to store an
image backup of the primary HD. It is currently set as a slave on cable
select.
Click to expand...
What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or surge,
or some kind of interaction between the drives?
Click to expand...
Comments and any ideas about preventing such problems will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Interesting question. If the second drive is usually inactive and
in a sleep state, then it is pretty safe except for power surges,
I would say. Still a virus or the like could activate it and
do bad things to it. How likely that risk is depends on your OS
and on what additional protection measures you use.

I would sayt this does not qualify as a real backup (only one media,
some risks shared with the primary data location), but is fasr better
than no backup.

Arno
 
I have 2 HDDs in the same computer and I want to use one just to store an
image backup of the primary HD. It is currently set as a slave on cable
select.

What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
also?
Click to expand...

low if it is really just a pure HW failure of that drive. It is more
likely that you will take it offline because it is getting flaky or
the head crashes or there is stiction rather than some electrical
short or strange event coming from a drive frying other components.
And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or surge,
or some kind of interaction between the drives?
Click to expand...

You don't use a UPS or power conditioner?

many kinds of HW failure yield isolated damage. Even a halfway decent
PSU should be able to fail without causing serious damage to other
components
Comments and any ideas about preventing such problems will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

use the internal "backup" drive solely as a way to quickly make &
restore point-in-time snapshots. Use some other external, removeable
device for a backup of these images & all other files. When the
backup is offline it cannot be affected by software or HW taking a
crap all over the online file system. When the backup is in another
location you have protection from theft, fire, flood, etc.
 
What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or surge,
or some kind of interaction between the drives?
Click to expand...

On a RAID 1 (or mirrored) setup, maybe if the same data is messed up
as it is being written to both drives as the power goes. But usually,
unless you get a virus/trojan, it works fine as long as you buy the
solution to the above: an external UPS supply.

Otherwise, 3.5" HDs in 5.25" ejectable bays so you can make offline
backups on a schedule, then eject (ie. not connected) and stored
elsewhere for safety.

You can combine this -- two internal mirrored HDs, one ejectable for
offline backups.
 
Martin said:
I have 2 HDDs in the same computer and I want to use one just to store an
image backup of the primary HD. It is currently set as a slave on cable
select.

What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or surge,
or some kind of interaction between the drives?
Click to expand...

Your system is okay for quick restoration. However, an offline backup
system should be implemented as well.
As long as the PC is not accessing the second hard drive, there is not much
possibility of the occurrence you're mentioning.
Comments and any ideas about preventing such problems will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Prevention of hardware damage due to power glitches is widely known. Am
surprised you're asking. The PC should be powered by an UPS. The external
peripherals should ALL have some form of surge protection. If you use a
telco modem, the surge protector should have a telco line protection.

You can put the backup image files on a hard drive connected to an add-on
ide controller, if loss of the primary onboard ide controller is an issue
for you.
 
Your system is okay for quick restoration. However, an offline backup
system should be implemented as well.
As long as the PC is not accessing the second hard drive, there is not much
possibility of the occurrence you're mentioning.


Prevention of hardware damage due to power glitches is widely known. Am
surprised you're asking. The PC should be powered by an UPS. The external
peripherals should ALL have some form of surge protection. If you use a
telco modem, the surge protector should have a telco line protection.

You can put the backup image files on a hard drive connected to an add-on
ide controller, if loss of the primary onboard ide controller is an issue
for you.
Click to expand...

Howdy,

No expert I, but...

Remember: In the event of a loss through theft, the "two
disks in one box" approach will have little benefit.

All the best,
 
Kenneth said:
Remember: In the event of a loss through theft, the "two
disks in one box" approach will have little benefit.
Click to expand...


The solution to having 2 HDs in one box is to have one
HD in a removable tray (a.k.a. "mobile tray", "caddy",
"drawer"). The enclosing rack is installed in a spare
5 1/2" bay, and the HD is held in tray that slides in and
out of the rack. The rack has an Off/On switch for power
(for use only when the PC is unpowered), and the tray has
a built-in fan. I use this system, and it works very well:
http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID=136
You can find them on the Web for about $20 for the
rack/tray combo, and about $12 for a spare tray alone.
The fan in the bottom keeps the HD cooler than body
temperature. When not in use, I keep the removable
tray in a neighbor's tree. (Only kidding.)

~[TD]~
 
Previously Kenneth said:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:24:34 -0500, Kenneth



"loss through theft or fire."
Click to expand...

Also water, earthquake, the computer faling over hard, machine rage,
comet impact, nuclear war and spontaneous PC combustion ;-)=)

Still, the idea is superios to RAID1 in some respects, e.g.
that it protects better from user error.

Arno
 
Timothy Daniels said:
The solution to having 2 HDs in one box is to have one
HD in a removable tray (a.k.a. "mobile tray", "caddy",
"drawer"). The enclosing rack is installed in a spare
5 1/2" bay, and the HD is held in tray that slides in and
out of the rack. The rack has an Off/On switch for power
(for use only when the PC is unpowered), and the tray has
a built-in fan. I use this system, and it works very well:
http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID=136
You can find them on the Web for about $20 for the
rack/tray combo, and about $12 for a spare tray alone.
The fan in the bottom keeps the HD cooler than body
temperature. When not in use, I keep the removable
tray in a neighbor's tree. (Only kidding.)
Click to expand...


Thanks to all for the comments.

I've been aware of all the pitfalls mentioned, but I wanted to see if I
might have missed some kind of configuration that would let me get away with
leaving the backup drive in the machine; fire, flood or felons
notwithstanding. Actually I've been using removable drives for backup
images and files with my old machines for several years, but my new computer
has no bays left for mounting those rack and tray assemblies.

I'm now considering using an external USB drive. Anyone have any good or
bad experience with these?
 
I'm now considering using an external USB drive. Anyone have any good or
bad experience with these?
Click to expand...

I've been using them for this for some time. I've found firewire to
be faster than USB2 for me, but USB2 isn't bad. Lots of benefits,
compared to an internal drive:
- Can be hotswapped or taken offline easily
- Easy to stash elsewhere when you go on vacation
- Can be hidden out of sight to help protect from theft (but network
backups are better for this)
- Can be moved to other PCs easily, in case you're backing up multiple
PCs over the network. Direct connect is much faster to restore than
over the network.

It's slower than an internal, and more clutter, but I prefer it.
 
Timothy Daniels said:
The solution to having 2 HDs in one box is to have one
HD in a removable tray (a.k.a. "mobile tray", "caddy",
"drawer"). The enclosing rack is installed in a spare
5 1/2" bay, and the HD is held in tray that slides in and
out of the rack. The rack has an Off/On switch for power
(for use only when the PC is unpowered), and the tray has
a built-in fan. I use this system, and it works very well:
http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID=136
You can find them on the Web for about $20 for the
rack/tray combo, and about $12 for a spare tray alone.
The fan in the bottom keeps the HD cooler than body
temperature. When not in use, I keep the removable
tray in a neighbor's tree. (Only kidding.)
Click to expand...


Timothy Daniels said:
The solution to having 2 HDs in one box is to have one
HD in a removable tray (a.k.a. "mobile tray", "caddy",
"drawer"). The enclosing rack is installed in a spare
5 1/2" bay, and the HD is held in tray that slides in and
out of the rack. The rack has an Off/On switch for power
(for use only when the PC is unpowered), and the tray has
a built-in fan. I use this system, and it works very well:
http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID=136
You can find them on the Web for about $20 for the
rack/tray combo, and about $12 for a spare tray alone.
The fan in the bottom keeps the HD cooler than body
temperature. When not in use, I keep the removable
tray in a neighbor's tree. (Only kidding.)
Click to expand...


Thanks to all for the comments.

I've been aware of all the pitfalls mentioned, but I wanted to see if I
might have missed some kind of configuration that would let me get away with
leaving the backup drive in the machine; fire, flood or felons
notwithstanding. Actually I've been using removable drives for backup
images and files with my old machines for several years, but my new computer
has no bays left for mounting those rack and tray assemblies.

I'm now considering using an external USB drive. Anyone have any good or
bad experience with these?
 
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