Intermittent Graphics failure

[Chas]

I have an AMD system using a Gigabyte GA-7VT600 motherboard and have
recently installed an ASUS V9520-X graphics card based on the GeForce
FX5200. It has 128 meg on board.

That is connected to a NEC Multisync XE21" CRT monitor (well past its
best days)

Initailly (first month or so) all ran well, then as far as I can
recall it was during my first attempt to install an early Vista beta
the monitor lost sync and I had to reboot. It came back up OK. This
happened several times and I thought it may be a Vista problem though
I was able to eventually install Vista,

However, I have now had the same thing happen with my XP setup. The
set up will run fine for a while, then without any consistent reason,
the monitor will lose sync. This happens maybe once or twice during a
12 hour period.

I returned the graphics card and had it replaced, but the same thing
is happening with the new card. Upon immediate reboot everything
works fine for hours so don't think it is a heating issue.

If I revert back to my old GeForce MX400 I never get any failures.

Is this likely to be a motherboard problem? or at least an
inconsistency between mobo and graphics card?

Or could it be a powewr issue?. Is there any way to determine the
cause?

I also had problems with fans continually blowing when I tried a
GeForce 4 card hence the move to the ASUS which doesn't have a fan.

Appreciate any advice.

 

[paulmd]

I have an AMD system using a Gigabyte GA-7VT600 motherboard and have
recently installed an ASUS V9520-X graphics card based on the GeForce
FX5200. It has 128 meg on board.

That is connected to a NEC Multisync XE21" CRT monitor (well past its
best days)

Initailly (first month or so) all ran well, then as far as I can
recall it was during my first attempt to install an early Vista beta
the monitor lost sync and I had to reboot. It came back up OK. This
happened several times and I thought it may be a Vista problem though
I was able to eventually install Vista,

However, I have now had the same thing happen with my XP setup. The
set up will run fine for a while, then without any consistent reason,
the monitor will lose sync. This happens maybe once or twice during a
12 hour period.

I returned the graphics card and had it replaced, but the same thing
is happening with the new card. Upon immediate reboot everything
works fine for hours so don't think it is a heating issue.

If I revert back to my old GeForce MX400 I never get any failures.

Is this likely to be a motherboard problem? or at least an
inconsistency between mobo and graphics card?

Or could it be a powewr issue?. Is there any way to determine the
cause?

I also had problems with fans continually blowing when I tried a
GeForce 4 card hence the move to the ASUS which doesn't have a fan.

Appreciate any advice.

It's unlikely to be a motherboard problem. Though it's always possible.

There are two remaining posibilities.

1) Driver issue. (Go to nvidia's website for the latest and greatest)
2) Power supply issue. The newer card requires more juice, and if the
supply can't cope, then weirdness happens.

3) Though its not that likely, check your motherboard for bulged or
leaking capicitors. (small soda cans) This relates to power regualtion.

 

[Chas]

Chas wrote:

It's unlikely to be a motherboard problem. Though it's always possible.

There are two remaining posibilities.

1) Driver issue. (Go to nvidia's website for the latest and greatest)

OK, I thought i had the latest drivers, but i have reinstalled. will
wait and see what happens

2) Power supply issue. The newer card requires more juice, and if the
supply can't cope, then weirdness happens.

Any way of checking that?

3) Though its not that likely, check your motherboard for bulged or
leaking capicitors. (small soda cans) This relates to power regualtion.

Nothing obvious there.

 

[paulmd]

OK, I thought i had the latest drivers, but i have reinstalled. will
wait and see what happens


Any way of checking that?

Two ways. One way involves figuring out what each component in your
computer draws, and checking if your power supply is adequite. The
other involves just buying a quality brand power supply with a lot
more juice.

Power supply calculators:

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=power+supply+calculator&btnG=Google+Search

 

[Chas]

Two ways. One way involves figuring out what each component in your
computer draws, and checking if your power supply is adequite. The
other involves just buying a quality brand power supply with a lot
more juice.

Power supply calculators:

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

Hey thanks, had no idea such calculators existed.

Initial calculator said I need 315 watts, but further check here
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp said 308watts BUT
once I factored in some aging which the previous site didn't allow
for, then I am up to 400watts and that is my max.

Could well be the issue. Thanks again.

 

[kony]

I have an AMD system using a Gigabyte GA-7VT600 motherboard and have
recently installed an ASUS V9520-X graphics card based on the GeForce
FX5200. It has 128 meg on board.

That is connected to a NEC Multisync XE21" CRT monitor (well past its
best days)

Initailly (first month or so) all ran well, then as far as I can
recall it was during my first attempt to install an early Vista beta
the monitor lost sync and I had to reboot. It came back up OK. This
happened several times and I thought it may be a Vista problem though
I was able to eventually install Vista,

However, I have now had the same thing happen with my XP setup. The
set up will run fine for a while, then without any consistent reason,
the monitor will lose sync. This happens maybe once or twice during a
12 hour period.

I returned the graphics card and had it replaced, but the same thing
is happening with the new card. Upon immediate reboot everything
works fine for hours so don't think it is a heating issue.

I would suspect the monitor- it would be good to try another
monitor. When it looses sync, does the monitor provide any
info onscreen?

If I revert back to my old GeForce MX400 I never get any failures.

Is it using same resolution and refresh rate or a different
(of either)?

Is this likely to be a motherboard problem? or at least an
inconsistency between mobo and graphics card?

Doubtful, but you might check Gigabyte's website for bios
updates to see if any similar kinds of video related issues
were addressed. If you had changed any bios settings
(besides those common/typical like increasing the CPU FSB
speed to the correct, not overclocked, speed if it was
necessary), try changing them back or clearing CMOS.

Or could it be a powewr issue?. Is there any way to determine the
cause?

If you had bad power lots of unpredictable things can
happen. It would be unusual though, for what you have (a
relatively low power video card) to have problems when the
rest of the system seems (?) working normally beside this.

I presume the video card is not overheating, too. You might
take the side cover off the system and point a desk fan at
it to see if it makes any difference. _Rarely_ if a
motherboard isn't lined up in a case that's off spec a
little, the cards may not make good contact in the slots. It
isn't likely but possibly these difference cards have just
different enough mounting brackets, dimensions or weight
distributions that one will continue making contact while
the other wouldn't, or at least wouldn't in the exact
position it was in. If the motherboard seems misaligned a
little, try loosening the motherboard standoffs and shifting
it into position. Also examine the monitor cord in case it
is damaged. These things dont' seem very likely but if one
adds up all the unlikely things, there's a fair chance...

I also had problems with fans continually blowing when I tried a
GeForce 4 card hence the move to the ASUS which doesn't have a fan.

"Continually blowing"? Most cards' fans are supposed to
always spin, did you mean it was simply louder than you
wanted? I would wonder if they were too hot, but some are
better than others about controlling fan speed. This is
another situation where taking cover off and pointing a fan
at it might reveal a problem.

Take voltage readings with a multimeter if you have one.

 

[Chas]

Doubtful, but you might check Gigabyte's website for bios
updates to see if any similar kinds of video related issues
were addressed. If you had changed any bios settings
(besides those common/typical like increasing the CPU FSB
speed to the correct, not overclocked, speed if it was
necessary), try changing them back or clearing CMOS.

Have installed the latest BIOs update (well as of 6 months ago). No
overclocking.

If you had bad power lots of unpredictable things can
happen. It would be unusual though, for what you have (a
relatively low power video card) to have problems when the
rest of the system seems (?) working normally beside this.

I do, but see my earlier response re the power calculator. This
graphics card draws 10watts more than my original and that is probably
just enough to tip it over the edge when i am peaking on power usage.If the motherboard seems misaligned a

little, try loosening the motherboard standoffs and shifting
it into position. Also examine the monitor cord in case it
is damaged. These things dont' seem very likely but if one
adds up all the unlikely things, there's a fair chance...

That's a good point as the mobo does seem very "tightly" aligned to
the case, so that whenever I insert a new PCI card I usually have to
bend the tab a tad just get it in between the case and mobo.

"Continually blowing"? Most cards' fans are supposed to
always spin, did you mean it was simply louder than you
wanted? I would wonder if they were too hot, but some are
better than others about controlling fan speed. This is
another situation where taking cover off and pointing a fan
at it might reveal a problem.

What I meant by "blowing" was "blowing up" = "failing" = " going
kaput" = "stopping spinning" = "becoming a dead fan" etc etc ....

Thanks for your suggestions, but i'm leaning towards the power issue,
though I am now starting to wonder about the mobo alignment.

Really appreciate the help.

 

[kony]

Hey thanks, had no idea such calculators existed.

Initial calculator said I need 315 watts, but further check here
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp said 308watts BUT
once I factored in some aging which the previous site didn't allow
for, then I am up to 400watts and that is my max.

Could well be the issue. Thanks again.

You could post a concise list of ALL the major power
consumers in your system, but unless you have a boatload of
hard drives, it is quite unlikely that your system (what we
know of it thus far) is using anywhere near 300W. Even
under the highest load it has ever seen, it's more likely in
the 220W range, if that.

It doesn't rule out power problems though, with many psu one
can't trust the labeled wattage (what make/model is yours?)
and further, the amps per rail are also questionable and
also of concern in certain designs (systems).

If your current video card uses 10W more, that is not much
at all. What are your voltage readings with the old and new
video cards installed?

 

[kony]

Initial calculator said I need 315 watts, but further check here
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp said 308watts BUT
once I factored in some aging which the previous site didn't allow
for, then I am up to 400watts and that is my max.

Just for kicks I entered in the configurations of two
system I have here into the above calculator.

One ended up at 740W and the other at 600W. The former
system is running off a 420W PSU and the latter off a 300W
PSU. Both have been running as configured (well I did pull
a smaller drive out of one and put a larger in, a few months
ago) for well over a year. One is a gaming system and the
other does qued up video encoding for dozens of hours at a
time inbetween short breaks to que up more jobs, so they
both use a fairly large amount of power, fairly high load.
A system sit running SETI with a screensaver on 24/7 may use
more but relatively speaking the average "PC" won't
encounter these kinds of loads typically.

In conclusion, the above calculator is practically
worthless, but to be fair, most of them are because they can
only cite theoretical peak voltage, additively. There are
some online reviews occasionally where gaming systems are
put through benchmarks with high-end cards, you might check
out some of those. Until recent generations of high-powered
cards in SLI configurations, it was extremely rare to see
any going above (roughly) 250W... and this was with a lot of
memory and high-end CPU, as they were trying to get a beefy
gaming system to keep rest of system from being a bottleneck
to the video cards under review. Probably not many (if more
than one) hard drive in the systems though, but a typical PC
drive only uses about 7W once it's spun-up.

Of greater concern would be the quality of your PSU, or if
it (or the motherboard, even video card IF we were only
considering one video card instead of two) had faulty
capacitors. Cooling problems could effect both cards
though, particularly one passively cooled if the case itself
doesn't have very good cooling.

 

[kony]

but to be fair, most of them are because they can
only cite theoretical peak voltage, additively.

Above should read " ... cite theoretical peak total wattage
based on device peak current specs, additively".

Even so, it is highly unlikely to be able to deliberately
cause a system to reach _all_ devices' real peak current
usage concurrently, let alone their theoretical peak.

I went back to that 2nd linked website and entered in a
basic low-end system config as was seen successfully used by
OEMs for years... except I used a Athlon Xp1600 T-Bred B at
only 50% TDP to come closer to what yesteryear's CPUs used,
but the rest of the parts were available to select. These
OEM systems have been running for over half a decade fine
(many of them at least), and so the capacitor aging was also
factored at 30%. Result was a similar inconsistency as I
saw previously, system power (supply needed) was estimated
at about 2X the rating of the PSU the systems had
successfully used... not even considering that some owners
end up adding a drive or more memory, etc.

 

[Chas]

Of greater concern would be the quality of your PSU, or if
it (or the motherboard, even video card IF we were only
considering one video card instead of two) had faulty
capacitors. Cooling problems could effect both cards
though, particularly one passively cooled if the case itself
doesn't have very good cooling.

Well I don't think the PSU is particularly high quality. The brand
name is "Cliiper Pro" if that means anything to anybody.

As you say, this problem has occurred with 2 cards, so unlikely to be
a physical fault with the card, though it is possible that the mobo
has a problem.

As an aside, but maybe of relevance is that I was unable to get a PCI
HiDef TV card (Compro) to work satisfactorily in my PC. I just
couldn't get it to produce a picture without massive pixellation.
(That was with my old GEForce2 card)

It worked fine in several other machines, and I ended up selling it.
I did wonder then if there may be a problem with my mobo.

I don't think heat is an issue. While I am in southern Australia, it
is winter here in Canberra and we get o'nite temps of minus 5C and top
daytime temps of only about 10C. The PC has an case fan and
monitoring of hard disks withh HDD Health shows temps of 35 to 39C.

 

[kony]

I don't think heat is an issue. While I am in southern Australia, it
is winter here in Canberra and we get o'nite temps of minus 5C and top
daytime temps of only about 10C. The PC has an case fan and
monitoring of hard disks withh HDD Health shows temps of 35 to 39C.

It does seem the temp is low enough but sometimes low
outdoor temps can cause overheating for a different reason-
system is along a wall with a heater or heat duct.