Intel gets spanked once again

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nobody

Remember when last fall pre-release Bensley system eked a victory
against Opteron 250 (or was it 248?), and, based on that, was hyped as
up-and-coming Opteron killer? Now that Bensley has been released it
faced the real competitor - the 880, and got spanked really bad in all
departments - performance (all tasks without a single exception, and
all by huge margin!!!), power consumption, price - no exception. For
more details: http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2745

NNN
 
Remember when last fall pre-release Bensley system eked a victory
against Opteron 250 (or was it 248?), and, based on that, was hyped as
up-and-coming Opteron killer? Now that Bensley has been released it
faced the real competitor - the 880, and got spanked really bad in all
departments - performance (all tasks without a single exception, and
all by huge margin!!!), power consumption, price - no exception. For
more details: http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2745

NNN

No surprise there..(yawn).
Ed
 
Remember when last fall pre-release Bensley system eked a victory
against Opteron 250 (or was it 248?), and, based on that, was hyped as
up-and-coming Opteron killer? Now that Bensley has been released it
faced the real competitor - the 880, and got spanked really bad in all
departments - performance (all tasks without a single exception, and
all by huge margin!!!), power consumption, price - no exception. For
more details: http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2745

Wasn't that the shootout where a pre-release IBM Xeon system with the X3
chipset beat out a production HP Opteron system in the TPC benchmark? It
seemed like for awhile that IBM had done something extraordinary with
the X3 chipset, but later it was found that the real difference in the
performance was HP used a Microsoft SQLServer database, while IBM used a
DB2 database. HP turned it around on IBM by redoing the test using DB2
as well on the Opteron system and ended up beating the IBM system with
its own software product.

Yousuf Khan
 
Wasn't that the shootout where a pre-release IBM Xeon system with the X3
chipset beat out a production HP Opteron system in the TPC benchmark? It
seemed like for awhile that IBM had done something extraordinary with
the X3 chipset, but later it was found that the real difference in the
performance was HP used a Microsoft SQLServer database, while IBM used a
DB2 database. HP turned it around on IBM by redoing the test using DB2
as well on the Opteron system and ended up beating the IBM system with
its own software product.

That's been an on-going back and forth battle between the two. Right
now IBM's Xeon-based system has top rung, though HP has a speed grade
of dual-core Opteron chips in hand.

Current top-dog is the IBM xSeries 460 using 4 dual-core Xeon 7060
processors (Paxville 3.0GHz, 2x2MB L2, 667MT/s bus speed), with a
score of 273,520 tpmC and a cost of $1,273,691 USD. Executive summary
here:

http://www.tpc.org/results/individual_results/IBM/ibm.x460-DB2.4P.c5.6.030706.es.pdf


HP's best offering is a Proliant DL585-G1 using 4 dual-core Opteron
880 processors (2.4GHz, 2x1MB L2, PC2700 memory bus), with a score of
236,054 tpmC and a cost of $476,378. Executive summary for this one
is here:

http://www.tpc.org/results/individual_results/HP/HP_DL585_4P_2.4DC_DB2_ES.PDF


A few points of note here:

1. The cost of the IBM system is MUCH higher, due almost entirely to
the disk array being used. This disk array plays a HUGELY important
role in determining performance in tpmC. It's rather unclear whether
or not HP could have gained more performance using a higher-end/more
expensive disk array, though presumably they wouldn't gain much. HP
certainly hasn't shied away from using extremely expensive arrays for
their tpmC scores in the past.

2. As mentioned above, HP has a processor speed grade in hand. AMD
now sells the Opteron 885 processor and HP has validated it for the
Proliant DL585 server, ie it's a drop-in replacement.

3. IBM has a bit of extra speed on it's way too. Intel has a new Xeon
7041 processor on the way which bumps the bus speed up to 800MT/s.
IBM does not currently list support for these chips, but that may be
simply because they aren't particularly available.

4. The HP system is available now (actually as of the 5th of Dec.,
2005) while anyone wanting this IBM setup has to wait just over a week
(available May 1st, 2006).

5. These systems are a little ways behind the fastest Itanium
4-processor (8-core) system which managed a score of 290,644 tpmC at a
cost of $788,155 USD. On quick glance both Opteron and Xeon appear to
be faster than IBM's Power5 based systems, but that's due to
differences in naming convention for number of processors. The
Opteron and Xeon systems are both 4-processor/8-core systems, which
are sold as "4 CPU" systems. IBM, on the other hand, used to refer to
their 4-processor/8-core systems as "8 CPU" systems. They have since
changed this to the same naming convention as AMD and Intel (and
nearly everyone else), and as soon as they submit some new 4P/8-core
results for their new Power5 systems they should be WELL ahead of
everyone else. Based on their new 8P/16-core results, they'll
probably manage a score in the 500,000 tpmC range for the smaller 4P
system.

6. Perhaps most importantly, I think a lot of people have come to
realize that tpmC is just as limited as any other benchmark and
becoming more dated then most. The results in this test do not
necessarily reflect any sort of real-world performance.
 
Tony said:
That's been an on-going back and forth battle between the two. Right
now IBM's Xeon-based system has top rung, though HP has a speed grade
of dual-core Opteron chips in hand.

Current top-dog is the IBM xSeries 460 using 4 dual-core Xeon 7060
processors (Paxville 3.0GHz, 2x2MB L2, 667MT/s bus speed), with a
score of 273,520 tpmC and a cost of $1,273,691 USD. Executive summary
here:

http://www.tpc.org/results/individual_results/IBM/ibm.x460-DB2.4P.c5.6.030706.es.pdf

Actually you can get almost 500k tpmC for a mere 3 million, using 16
Intel processors.
http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=106032102

Even more top dog.
 
Del, look at that submission, they are using AMD clients to drive the
Intel based server.

I'm sure several people are chuckling right now...

DK
 
David said:
Del, look at that submission, they are using AMD clients to drive the
Intel based server.

I'm sure several people are chuckling right now...

DK
I noticed that. I wonder why? Just what they had laying around?
 
I noticed that. I wonder why? Just what they had laying around?Sharp pointy stick to the eye of the other blue company : )

Seriously though, I suspect the issue is that IBM's Opteron based
systems are cheaper than xSeries boxes. You see all sorts of weird
clients for TPC-C, a lot of HP submissions use PA-RISC clients of all
things...

DK
 
Del, look at that submission, they are using AMD clients to drive the
Intel based server.

I'm sure several people are chuckling right now...

I don't know how much chuckling is going on when you consider that
HP's Opteron based servers are being driven by Intel Xeon based
clients.

Really the client machines don't much matter. Toss a handful of any
modern systems, along with a decent network connection, at the problem
and you've got it solved.
 
Tony said:
A few points of note here:

1. The cost of the IBM system is MUCH higher, due almost entirely to
the disk array being used. This disk array plays a HUGELY important
role in determining performance in tpmC. It's rather unclear whether
or not HP could have gained more performance using a higher-end/more
expensive disk array, though presumably they wouldn't gain much. HP
certainly hasn't shied away from using extremely expensive arrays for
their tpmC scores in the past.

2. As mentioned above, HP has a processor speed grade in hand. AMD
now sells the Opteron 885 processor and HP has validated it for the
Proliant DL585 server, ie it's a drop-in replacement.

3. IBM has a bit of extra speed on it's way too. Intel has a new Xeon
7041 processor on the way which bumps the bus speed up to 800MT/s.
IBM does not currently list support for these chips, but that may be
simply because they aren't particularly available.

4. The HP system is available now (actually as of the 5th of Dec.,
2005) while anyone wanting this IBM setup has to wait just over a week
(available May 1st, 2006).

Well, according to this article, IBM's server chief is wishing he had
some 4-way Opteron systems to compete against HP & Sun.

Course corrections at IBM server group | Newsmakers | CNET News.com
http://news.com.com/Course+corrections+at+IBM+server+group/2008-1010_3-6066187.html?tag=nefd.lede

If you look at HP's results over the last few quarters, it
wasn't their unit growth that was causing them to improve, it was their
average unit revenue, and the average unit was improving because they
had more AMD content than they had had previously. Even in our own
case, the average unit revenues on an AMD blade are much higher than
the same kind of Intel blade because the performance is better, and
because the performance is better, people put more I/O (input-output
components such as network cards) and more memory and other things on
them. There are a whole bunch of business considerations that would say
we would have done better had we had a four-way Opteron product for
sure.

Yousuf Khan
 
Well, according to this article, IBM's server chief is wishing he had
some 4-way Opteron systems to compete against HP & Sun.

Course corrections at IBM server group | Newsmakers | CNET News.com
http://news.com.com/Course+corrections+at+IBM+server+group/2008-1010_3-6066187.html?tag=nefd.lede

If you look at HP's results over the last few quarters, it
wasn't their unit growth that was causing them to improve, it was their
average unit revenue, and the average unit was improving because they
had more AMD content than they had had previously. Even in our own
case, the average unit revenues on an AMD blade are much higher than
the same kind of Intel blade because the performance is better, and
because the performance is better, people put more I/O (input-output
components such as network cards) and more memory and other things on
them. There are a whole bunch of business considerations that would say
we would have done better had we had a four-way Opteron product for
sure.

Yousuf Khan

But this would come at the expence of cozy relationship with Intel -
given that Intel-based stuff still makes the bulk of the orders, it
would be a risky proposition. I wonder how HP is getting away with
it...

NNN
 
But this would come at the expence of cozy relationship with Intel -
given that Intel-based stuff still makes the bulk of the orders, it
would be a risky proposition. I wonder how HP is getting away with
it...

It doesn't matter anymore, Intel is heading towards poverty these days
(they're down to their last $7 billion in the bank). :-)

Intel can't afford to pay for anything anymore, let alone IBM's
advertising fees. It must've stopped paying HP's fees a couple of years
ago. It's putting its last bit of coin into Dell hoping to hold at
least that fort.

Yousuf Khan
 
It doesn't matter anymore, Intel is heading towards poverty these days
(they're down to their last $7 billion in the bank). :-)

Intel can't afford to pay for anything anymore, let alone IBM's
advertising fees. It must've stopped paying HP's fees a couple of years
ago. It's putting its last bit of coin into Dell hoping to hold at
least that fort.

Yousuf Khan

fwiw, as predicted, Woodcrest (1333 fsb) ships in June...
 
YKhan said:
It doesn't matter anymore, Intel is heading towards poverty these days
(they're down to their last $7 billion in the bank). :-)

Intel can't afford to pay for anything anymore, let alone IBM's
advertising fees. It must've stopped paying HP's fees a couple of years
ago. It's putting its last bit of coin into Dell hoping to hold at
least that fort.

Yousuf, I hope you are joking, but I'm afraid, being the AMD drummer
that you are, that you are not. Intel made $8B, NET, last year. They
are, _obviously_, one of the richest, most powerful companies on the
planet. Do you _really_ believe that Intel is a poverty case that
"can't afford" some marketing costs? Please!
 
: YKhan wrote:
:
:: It doesn't matter anymore, Intel is heading towards poverty these
:: days (they're down to their last $7 billion in the bank). :-)
::
:: Intel can't afford to pay for anything anymore, let alone IBM's
:: advertising fees. It must've stopped paying HP's fees a couple of
:: years ago. It's putting its last bit of coin into Dell hoping to
:: hold at least that fort.
:
: Yousuf, I hope you are joking, but I'm afraid, being the AMD drummer
: that you are, that you are not. Intel made $8B, NET, last year.
: They are, _obviously_, one of the richest, most powerful companies
: on the planet. Do you _really_ believe that Intel is a poverty
: case that "can't afford" some marketing costs? Please!

Bingo, ChrisV! My thoughts exactly. Added to that the fact that Yousuf
finds it necessary to x-post to those god-damned stock groups, me thinks
he's evolving into quite the little troll boy. Sad.....

j.
 
: YKhan wrote:
:
:: It doesn't matter anymore, Intel is heading towards poverty these
:: days (they're down to their last $7 billion in the bank). :-)
::
:: Intel can't afford to pay for anything anymore, let alone IBM's
:: advertising fees. It must've stopped paying HP's fees a couple of
:: years ago. It's putting its last bit of coin into Dell hoping to
:: hold at least that fort.
:
: Yousuf, I hope you are joking, but I'm afraid, being the AMD drummer
: that you are, that you are not. Intel made $8B, NET, last year.
: They are, _obviously_, one of the richest, most powerful companies
: on the planet. Do you _really_ believe that Intel is a poverty
: case that "can't afford" some marketing costs? Please!

Bingo, ChrisV! My thoughts exactly. Added to that the fact that Yousuf
finds it necessary to x-post to those god-damned stock groups, me thinks
he's evolving into quite the little troll boy. Sad.....

Stock groups? Yousef started the AMD stock *group*. Though there is
quite an overlap in topics, I do agree that it's time to divorce the two.

OTOH, you could simply filter threads, rather than trying to stifle
conversation.
 
: On Tue, 02 May 2006 17:26:28 +0200, Jack wrote:
:
::: YKhan wrote:
:::
:::: It doesn't matter anymore, Intel is heading towards poverty these
:::: days (they're down to their last $7 billion in the bank). :-)
::::
:::: Intel can't afford to pay for anything anymore, let alone IBM's
:::: advertising fees. It must've stopped paying HP's fees a couple of
:::: years ago. It's putting its last bit of coin into Dell hoping to
:::: hold at least that fort.
:::
::: Yousuf, I hope you are joking, but I'm afraid, being the AMD
::: drummer that you are, that you are not. Intel made $8B, NET,
::: last year. They are, _obviously_, one of the richest, most
::: powerful companies on the planet. Do you _really_ believe that
::: Intel is a poverty case that "can't afford" some marketing costs?
::: Please!
::
:: Bingo, ChrisV! My thoughts exactly. Added to that the fact that
:: Yousuf finds it necessary to x-post to those god-damned stock
:: groups, me thinks he's evolving into quite the little troll boy.
:: Sad.....
:
: Stock groups? Yousef started the AMD stock *group*. Though there
: is quite an overlap in topics, I do agree that it's time to divorce
: the two.

Interesting. However, I still maintain that x-posting from a technical
group such as c.s.i.p.h.c. to a very NON-technical stock (or whatever)
group stock full (pun intended) of shills and droids does nothing but
worsen the S/N ratio here. Ya dig?


:
: OTOH, you could simply filter threads, rather than trying to stifle
: conversation.

I do and I'm not trying to stifle conversation. I absolutely hate
however, the "dregs" that x-posting brings into c.s.i.p.h.c. Nuff said.

j.
 
: On Tue, 02 May 2006 17:26:28 +0200, Jack wrote:
:
::: YKhan wrote:
:::
:::: It doesn't matter anymore, Intel is heading towards poverty these
:::: days (they're down to their last $7 billion in the bank). :-)
::::
:::: Intel can't afford to pay for anything anymore, let alone IBM's
:::: advertising fees. It must've stopped paying HP's fees a couple of
:::: years ago. It's putting its last bit of coin into Dell hoping to
:::: hold at least that fort.
:::
::: Yousuf, I hope you are joking, but I'm afraid, being the AMD
::: drummer that you are, that you are not. Intel made $8B, NET,
::: last year. They are, _obviously_, one of the richest, most
::: powerful companies on the planet. Do you _really_ believe that
::: Intel is a poverty case that "can't afford" some marketing costs?
::: Please!
::
:: Bingo, ChrisV! My thoughts exactly. Added to that the fact that
:: Yousuf finds it necessary to x-post to those god-damned stock
:: groups, me thinks he's evolving into quite the little troll boy.
:: Sad.....
:
: Stock groups? Yousef started the AMD stock *group*. Though there
: is quite an overlap in topics, I do agree that it's time to divorce
: the two.

Interesting. However, I still maintain that x-posting from a technical
group such as c.s.i.p.h.c. to a very NON-technical stock (or whatever)
group stock full (pun intended) of shills and droids does nothing but
worsen the S/N ratio here. Ya dig?

Ya read? There is a *lot* of overlap between investment and technology
though.
: OTOH, you could simply filter threads, rather than trying to stifle
: conversation.

I do and I'm not trying to stifle conversation. I absolutely hate
however, the "dregs" that x-posting brings into c.s.i.p.h.c. Nuff said.

Gee. I thought the "dregs" were coming from the .chips side. BTW, AISA
wasn't around in the Corse pump-n-dump days.

Again, simply filter what you don't want to read. It really *is* that
simple.
 
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