Installing Vista on SATA drive

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brian W
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B

Brian W

Anyone had any experience of doing this? Would it be a good idea to remove
any IDE hard drives from my system before installing, and then re-connect
after?
Are there any known issues?

Thanks in advance
 
Cool, thanks!

Richard G. Harper said:
Works fine for me, I didn't bother disconnecting anything, just let 'er
go.

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Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] (e-mail address removed)
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Brian W said:
Anyone had any experience of doing this? Would it be a good idea to
remove any IDE hard drives from my system before installing, and then
re-connect after?
Are there any known issues?

Thanks in advance
 
Some MOBO/BIOS's have had problems. If you have problems then I would
unplug your IDE drives and retry.


Brian W said:
Cool, thanks!

Richard G. Harper said:
Works fine for me, I didn't bother disconnecting anything, just let 'er
go.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] (e-mail address removed)
* NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


Brian W said:
Anyone had any experience of doing this? Would it be a good idea to
remove any IDE hard drives from my system before installing, and then
re-connect after?
Are there any known issues?

Thanks in advance
 
Agreed that it shouldn't be an issue, depending on your system and drivers. I
have Vista on a Sata Raid 0 and my data on a Sata Raid 1. During the install
I loaded the drivers and they were recognized.

Good luck!
 
Brian said:
Anyone had any experience of doing this? Would it be a good idea to
remove any IDE hard drives from my system before installing, and then
re-connect after?

I tried installing on a SATA drive and it repeatedly put the boot
information on to the IDE drive. (I didn't realise for a long time,
installed many many times before working this out -- it would boot with the
installer DVD in the drive, but as soon as I removed the disc it failed to
boot).

I'd personally recommend you disconnect the IDE drives before installation.
Once I had done this it installed fine first time.
 
Yeah, that's what I thought. I did read about the bootloader being put onto
the IDE drive, which is why I will disconnect them first.
 
You have to make sure your BIOS is set to have the SATA as the first drive
in BOOT PRIORITY to have the boot files installed there. That is the dirty
little secret most forget to do.

Brian W said:
Yeah, that's what I thought. I did read about the bootloader being put
onto the IDE drive, which is why I will disconnect them first.
 
Yep, got that covered too! Can't set it until my drive turns up though
(hopefully by the weekend, just in time for my Vista DVD to arrive)


John Barnes said:
You have to make sure your BIOS is set to have the SATA as the first drive
in BOOT PRIORITY to have the boot files installed there. That is the
dirty little secret most forget to do.
 
Some older M/B's, including mine, don't behave the same way. My bios is set
to boot from the SATA drive. Setup will constantly write boot code to a
connected IDE drive, instead of the SATA drive.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!



John Barnes said:
You have to make sure your BIOS is set to have the SATA as the first drive
in BOOT PRIORITY to have the boot files installed there. That is the
dirty little secret most forget to do.
 
Heard that too, to be on the safe side I will ensure the IDE drive is
disconnected and disabled in BIOS. There will then be no choice as to where
Windows Setup writes the boot loader!
 
We learn by listening to others who have tripped and fallen.

Seeing as how there are people who have not seen this particular problem, I
can only attribute it to early implementations of the SATA chipsets not
being compatible with the Vista setup procedure.

It may be indicative of particular mother boards also. On my two Asus A7N8X
Deluxe 2.0 M/B's the problem certainly does exist.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
The Vista team told us in TechBeta during a chat back during Beta 1 that
Setup will write the configuration store to a PATA if it can find one.
Forcing to a SATA is the workaround. Once the installation is done,
reenabling the PATA drives is fine.
 
There are many anomalies. I bought the first SATAII HD for consumers
Hitachi made and was never able to get any system to boot from it. Even if
the boot files were on another drive, nothing. There was one exception. If
the boot records were on another drive the system in a logical drive would
boot up, but not if in a primary partition. Gave up and use it as a data
drive, but very frustrating.
 
My motherboard has a VIA VT8237 SATA controller, and just looking in device
manager now shows the device with no yellow mark, so Vista obviously has
support for this controller. Fingers crossed that everything will work
properly! I'll know by next week.
 
After spending 5 hours installing Vista Premium on my SATA Raid last night, I
felt I have to comment on how frustrated I am. Now I realize I am making
myself look pretty stupid by admitting to this, but here goes.

I was a beta user and had the problem of trying to install Vista to SATA
NVRAID Volume with a PATA (IDE) drive present as a storage only device as
well. I ran into the well documented problem of having some installation
(maybe MBR??) written to the IDE drive REGUARDLESS of how you set up your
BIOS. This of course results in a useless SATA Boot volume unless you can
somehow fix it. I'll mention here that I've heard of a tool out there that
lets you re-write the MBR so that you can fix this problem without a
re-install, but I've never tried it so I can't promise anything.

Let me say that removing your IDE drives DOES in fact fix the problem.

Now, I go out and buy Vista Premium, the OFFICIAL release of the famed OS,
and sure enough, what happens? EXACTLY THE SAME THING! Are you kidding me?
You (Microsoft) saw this problem back in Beta and couldn't do anything to fix
it? Nothing at all? Being that I installed the beta ONCE about 1 year ago I
didn't realize I was having the same problem and went through 4 hours of
diagnostics with Microsoft before I realized the problem and fixed it. Note
that I fixed the problem, and not Microsoft, from something I read on the
forums about a year ago.

Let me put a more detailed description of the problem for those that don't
know. Let me preface this by saying I know Asus Motherboards have problems,
and I'm not sure if this problem applies to all Asus MB's, or any other MB
manufacturer. My personal setup is an A8NSLI that presents me with this
fantastic problem.

When you try to install Vista (I believe any version, 64 or 32 bit), onto a
SATA drive or Raid volume, and you have other IDE PATA drives, the Vista
Installation for some reason writes information necessary for booting to the
IDE or PATA drive. I have no idea why, and if someone has a reason please let
me know. This causes problems when you reboot, which might not be immediately
apparent since when you reboot with the DVD still in the DVD-Rom drive, the
problem doesn't exist. Again, could someone please explain this?

How could this be an official release and still have such a major problem?
Please someone take a stab at this. Am I missing something? Is there a good
explanation as to why MS decided to leave this "problem" in there? I can't
tell you how frustrated I was last night. Frustrated with MS and their
"support". I guess that is what you get from free tech support.

Just had to vent.
 
This is a well known and well documented condition that has been discussed
here often

I believe it has to do with the implementation of SATA on Asus boards (I
have two A7N8X2.0 Deluxe boards) that use Silicon Image Sil 3112 chipset.
There is no work around, other than making certain that you physically
disconnect the IDE drives "before" installing Vista on the SATA drive.

Believe me, after you have done it (screwed up yet again) 2 or 3 times you
WILL remember for the future.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Not sure who to blame but I'm returning Vista. Unreal that this happens with
such a popular combination of hardware. I'm using an A8NSLI that uses NVRaid
chip. Not sure if that is really Silicon Image Raid chip or not, but doesn't
really matter as far as I'm concerned.

I hope Bestbuy accepts my return. Lack of drivers, buggy installation, and
buggy application performance are my reasons.
 
I'm going to jump in here and maybe give you another idea to try. I've not
read this whole thread (damn top-posters anyway...;-) but the problem sounds
like one I had and posted about over in the setup group. I worked with Asus
(mb), NVIDIA (drivers) and the SATA drive manf to find a resolution.

Asus was helpful but not their problem - and they were correct.

NVIDIA mocked up a system using an A8N32-SLI mb and used the drivers that
are on the Vista DVD - they worked and this confirmed to me that mine should
also work.

SATA drive (who took over IBM's) had me run tests - all passed but said
"okay, don't know what the problem is but send it back and we'll swap it"

The SATA drive in question (new) has been used as a storage drive (300Gb)
and worked fine. When I decided to test Vista, it was used as the main
drive to load Vista on to. The installation went fine - no errors but once
it did it's first boot and Vista took over to complete the configuration, I
got a black screen and blinking cursor. Tried many hardware configurations
and ended up with the system barebones, mb, memory, video card, DVD, p/s,
keyboard, mouse and one SATA drive connected. Same problem.....tried
numerous configurations.

Put system back together which included 2 EIDE drives and 2 DVD's, 4 SATA
drives, 1 external SATA drive, dual video cards, and USB
connections.....same problem.

I found that I could not load any OS to that drive. I had partitioned and
formatted it under both WinXP and Vista - no difference and never any signs
of any problems no matter how it was used in the system.

Finally got out an old Win9x / WinXP boot disk that has FDISK (for >64Gb
drives) on it and used it at a DOS prompt to delete the NTFS partition then
re-partition the drive.

Tried one more time.... booted up using the Vista DVD and then used the
option in the Vista install to do a quick format on that drive and proceeded
with the install. It worked.....!

I naturally went and tried all the previous installs I tried before - WinXP
Pro, Vista x86 and x64 versions - they all loaded and ran fine. Retested
the drive using the HDUtil program and it tested fine - just as before.

The Asus mb uses the Silicon Image Sil3132 SATA controller for the external
(and one internal) SATA drive port on the A8N32-SLI Deluxe mb and I believe
it's the same on yours. The NVIDIA controller is for the 4 internal SATA
drives and uses the nForce4 chipset and nForce drivers. There are updates
available on the NVIDIA site and on the Silicon Image site for updating the
drivers - AFTER - Vista is installed. Any drive connected to the Sil3132
controller will not be seen until after the first update or if you want -
use the F6 key to install the Sil3132 drivers during the Vista installation
if your drive is connected to that controller (red port on board). The
NVIDIA ports (4) are black colored and clustered together.

I can't explain why using the FDISK routine from a Windows boot disk worked
and partitioning from within WinXP or Vista install routines did not. But
it did and I have since changed the drive configuration a number of times
for testing and no problems.

One other thing to check is when you reboot and if it looks like it can't
find the hard drive, reboot into the BIOS and be sure the Boot Drive
settings are correct and that the drive is being seen by the BIOS. If you're
using a RAID configuration - that's a whole different setup but if not using
RAID, be sure it's turned off, that IDE drives are enabled and that the 4
NVIDIA SATA ports are enabled. Everything works with the default settings
and with RAID disabled. Did not have to use any tricks or work-around to
get Vista to install once that hard drive was FDISK'd at the DOS level.

Someone else made a post as to where you can find the boot disk
(www.bootdisk.com). Look under "DOStools", "PARTITIONING" and you will see
"MS Fdisk for Hard Disks Greater Than 64Gig" which you'll need to place on
the boot floppy or CD that you make. I already had the utilities so I
didn't download them from this site so I'll leave it to you to trust it or
not.

Bob S.




CrazyHorse said:
Not sure who to blame but I'm returning Vista. Unreal that this happens
with
such a popular combination of hardware. I'm using an A8NSLI that uses
NVRaid
chip. Not sure if that is really Silicon Image Raid chip or not, but
doesn't
really matter as far as I'm concerned.

I hope Bestbuy accepts my return. Lack of drivers, buggy installation, and
buggy application performance are my reasons.
snip.............of long post............
 
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:50:06 -0800, CrazyHorse
I ran into the well documented problem of having some installation
(maybe MBR??) written to the IDE drive REGUARDLESS of how you
set up your BIOS. This of course results in a useless SATA Boot volume
unless you can somehow fix it.

That sounds really lame...
Now, I go out and buy Vista Premium, the OFFICIAL release of the famed OS,
and sure enough, what happens? EXACTLY THE SAME THING! Are you kidding me?
You (Microsoft) saw this problem back in Beta and couldn't do anything to fix
Let me put a more detailed description of the problem for those that don't
know. Let me preface this by saying I know Asus Motherboards have problems,
and I'm not sure if this problem applies to all Asus MB's, or any other MB
When you try to install Vista (I believe any version, 64 or 32 bit), onto a
SATA drive or Raid volume, and you have other IDE PATA drives, the Vista
Installation for some reason writes information necessary for booting to the
IDE or PATA drive.

IMO, best practice is to remove all disk drives and storage devices at
install time, except the HD or RAID you want to install to, and the
optical drive you are installing from.

IDE with S-ATA isn't the only problem that can arise otherwise, tho
writing boot code to the non-boot device is particularly lame. You
can also get crappy letter assignments, e.g. where your Zip drive
becomes "C:" and your OS drive becomes "G" or something.
I have no idea why, and if someone has a reason please let
me know. This causes problems when you reboot

Usually, the problems arise due to:
- BIOS enumeration order
- BIOS boot order
- BIOS mode whereby IDE and S-ATA co-exist

In some cases, an OS may act depending on the enumeration order handed
to it by BIOS, which may vary with respect to the boot order. The OS
then ASSumes the first enumerated HD is the boot HD.

By the same token, some BIOS modes will mix S-ATA with IDE identities,
e.g. S-ATA 0 = Primary Master, S-ATA 1 = Primary Slave, S-ATA 2 =
Secondary Master etc. so if your S-ATA is on S-ATA 1 and your IDE is
Primary Master, the IDE enumerates first.

Other more modern (less legacy-orientated) BIOS modes may enumerate
S-ATA separately from IDE, much as is done with SCSI, and then order
the S-ATA cataegory ahead or behind the IDE category.

RAID adds another wrinkle as often the RAID controller is enumerated
as a separate device class, either before or after the others.
when you reboot with the DVD still in the DVD-Rom drive, the
problem doesn't exist. Again, could someone please explain this?

Yep. When you boot off any standard MS bootable optical disk, the
thing will timeout and then chain directly into booting the "first"
HD, irrespective of what boot order you may have set in BIOS. In so
doing, all of the following may be bypassed...
- BIOS boot order
- MBR code
- ?PBR code
....as the boot chaining may enter at either NTLDR (or Vista
equivalent) or the PBR just before that.
How could this be an official release and still have such a major problem?

Depends where the problem is. I'd try this:
- install with nil other than S-ATA HD present
- add IDE HD
- if boot fails, BIOS is booting the wrong HD; fix boot order

If S-ATA is before IDE in both BIOS boot order and order of
enumeration, and Vista still pukes on the irrelevant IDE HD "because
doesn't everything boot off IDE, duh", then I'd consider this a Vista
bug, especially if it applies across all mobos and BIOSs.

OTOH, if your BIOS boots IDE before S-ATA and only "works" as long as
the S-ATA does not appear to be bootable, then you have a
configuration problem; you need to set S-ATA before IDE. If that
isn't possible to do, or if results are wonky but only with particular
mobo or chipset vendors, then that's back to BIOS.


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