inside, outside, who am I?

[James W. Long]

Hi all,

I'm having a wierd problem with a client machine.

I'm in a domain with a WIN NT PDC and a BDC.
the domain is jewlconsulting. it runs on the 10 subnet.
both the pdc and the bcd have 2 nics, one being
static on the 10 subnet, the second being configured
for dhcp.

My clients all run win2000 professional.
They also have 2 nic cards each, one on the inside lan hub and one
attached to a second hub that shares the cable modem.

the inside cards are configured static on the 10 subnet.
the outside cards are configured for dhcp.

I "used" to be able to go onto (this one, as an example) a client machine,
whose name is hal9000 and open a dos window
and ping hal9000. I "used" to get a reply from the 10 subnet address,
which is normal, I thought, since netbios resolves the machine name.

BUT NOW.. when I ping hal9000 I get the OUTSIDEe address as seen below,
and this is without either pdc or bdc even running.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(done on hal9000 client machine)
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.JEWELCONSULTINGing hal9000

Pinging hal9000.jewelconsulting [69.14.xx.xx] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 69.14.xx.xx:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


How was it that I used to get the 10 subnet address and how can I make it
get that again, when pinging the local machines name?

in a bizarre twist, if I disable the outside card, it works, I ping hal9000
and get 10.x.x.x.

Thank you in advance,

 

[Herb Martin]

I'm having a wierd problem with a client machine.

It work better if you use a meaning subject and post
the PROBLEM at the top of the message and then
get to the detail (which may or may not be relevant.)

[After reading the whole thing, you don't even seem to
HAVE A PROBLEM.]

I'm in a domain with a WIN NT PDC and a BDC.

One wonders why you posted this problem to a Win2000
DNS groups if you don't use that?

the domain is jewlconsulting. it runs on the 10 subnet.
both the pdc and the bcd have 2 nics, one being
static on the 10 subnet, the second being configured
for dhcp.

My clients all run win2000 professional.
They also have 2 nic cards each, one on the inside lan hub and one
attached to a second hub that shares the cable modem.

the inside cards are configured static on the 10 subnet.
the outside cards are configured for dhcp.

One assumes that the cable modem/router (or some such device)
is the DHCP server on that side?

I "used" to be able to go onto (this one, as an example) a client machine,
whose name is hal9000 and open a dos window
and ping hal9000. I "used" to get a reply from the 10 subnet address,
which is normal, I thought, since netbios resolves the machine name.

Possibly. DNS resolution will fail over by default to the NetBIOS
methods, check it's own name and be ok, but a machine should normally
know it's own DNS name too and just use that without NetBIOS
being involved.

BUT NOW.. when I ping hal9000 I get the OUTSIDEe address as seen below,
and this is without either pdc or bdc even running.

All that is irrelevant if you are using Ping and just testing IP
and name resolution -- DCs and authentication are not involved.

Chances are you or someone re-install the network card(s) and got
them in the "opposite order".

It's really irrelevant unless you have a PROBLEM.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(done on hal9000 client machine)
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.JEWELCONSULTINGing hal9000

Pinging hal9000.jewelconsulting [69.14.xx.xx] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 69.14.xx.xx:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


How was it that I used to get the 10 subnet address and how can I make it
get that again, when pinging the local machines name?

Why do you car if you are ON THAT SAME machine?

If you are own another machine, it probably doesn't matter
either.

Any broadcast resolution is only going to find it if it is
directly connect and if that is so this is probably a good
path for traffic.

in a bizarre twist, if I disable the outside card, it works, I ping hal9000
and get 10.x.x.x.

Of course -- not bizarre at all.

Based on your post, you have no problem.

 

[Kevin D. Goodknecht [MVP]]

In

Hi all,

I'm having a wierd problem with a client machine.

I'm in a domain with a WIN NT PDC and a BDC.
the domain is jewlconsulting. it runs on the 10 subnet.
both the pdc and the bcd have 2 nics, one being
static on the 10 subnet, the second being configured
for dhcp.

My clients all run win2000 professional.
They also have 2 nic cards each, one on the inside lan hub and one
attached to a second hub that shares the cable modem.

the inside cards are configured static on the 10 subnet.
the outside cards are configured for dhcp.

I "used" to be able to go onto (this one, as an example) a client
machine, whose name is hal9000 and open a dos window
and ping hal9000. I "used" to get a reply from the 10 subnet address,
which is normal, I thought, since netbios resolves the machine name.

BUT NOW.. when I ping hal9000 I get the OUTSIDEe address as seen
below, and this is without either pdc or bdc even running.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(done on hal9000 client machine)
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.JEWELCONSULTINGing hal9000

Pinging hal9000.jewelconsulting [69.14.xx.xx] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 69.14.xx.xx:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


How was it that I used to get the 10 subnet address and how can I
make it get that again, when pinging the local machines name?

in a bizarre twist, if I disable the outside card, it works, I ping
hal9000 and get 10.x.x.x.

On the Win2k clients right click on network places, choose properties, in
the Advanced Menu select Advanced settings the internal NIC should be at the
top of the Binding order, and should be the only NIC that has Client for MS
Networks and file sharing.
The external NIC should also not have NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled.

 

[James W. Long]

Dear Herb.

thank you for your so insightful input.
the next time I dont even have a problem I will be sure not to even post,
especially to idiots such as yourself. if you thought this was not an
issure
then why in heavens name did you even bother to waste your so obviously
precious time to
reply??? next time, dont waste mine.
thank you,
have a great day,
yours truly,
James W. Long.

I'm having a wierd problem with a client machine.

It work better if you use a meaning subject and post
the PROBLEM at the top of the message and then
get to the detail (which may or may not be relevant.)

[After reading the whole thing, you don't even seem to
HAVE A PROBLEM.]

I'm in a domain with a WIN NT PDC and a BDC.

One wonders why you posted this problem to a Win2000
DNS groups if you don't use that?

the domain is jewlconsulting. it runs on the 10 subnet.
both the pdc and the bcd have 2 nics, one being
static on the 10 subnet, the second being configured
for dhcp.

My clients all run win2000 professional.
They also have 2 nic cards each, one on the inside lan hub and one
attached to a second hub that shares the cable modem.

the inside cards are configured static on the 10 subnet.
the outside cards are configured for dhcp.

One assumes that the cable modem/router (or some such device)
is the DHCP server on that side?

I "used" to be able to go onto (this one, as an example) a client machine,
whose name is hal9000 and open a dos window
and ping hal9000. I "used" to get a reply from the 10 subnet address,
which is normal, I thought, since netbios resolves the machine name.

Possibly. DNS resolution will fail over by default to the NetBIOS
methods, check it's own name and be ok, but a machine should normally
know it's own DNS name too and just use that without NetBIOS
being involved.

BUT NOW.. when I ping hal9000 I get the OUTSIDEe address as seen below,
and this is without either pdc or bdc even running.

All that is irrelevant if you are using Ping and just testing IP
and name resolution -- DCs and authentication are not involved.

Chances are you or someone re-install the network card(s) and got
them in the "opposite order".

It's really irrelevant unless you have a PROBLEM.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(done on hal9000 client machine)
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.JEWELCONSULTINGing hal9000

Pinging hal9000.jewelconsulting [69.14.xx.xx] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 69.14.xx.xx:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


How was it that I used to get the 10 subnet address and how can I make it
get that again, when pinging the local machines name?

Why do you car if you are ON THAT SAME machine?

If you are own another machine, it probably doesn't matter
either.

Any broadcast resolution is only going to find it if it is
directly connect and if that is so this is probably a good
path for traffic.

in a bizarre twist, if I disable the outside card, it works, I ping hal9000
and get 10.x.x.x.

Of course -- not bizarre at all.

Based on your post, you have no problem.

 

[James W. Long]

Dear Kevin,

Thank you once again, your advice is excellent!

The order of my cards (the binding order) in that option menu was
incorrect,
which was what caused the problem. All is once again well.
Very much appreciated !

James W. Long.

On the Win2k clients right click on network places, choose properties, in
the Advanced Menu select Advanced settings the internal NIC should be at the
top of the Binding order, and should be the only NIC that has Client for MS
Networks and file sharing.
The external NIC should also not have NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled.

In

Hi all,

I'm having a wierd problem with a client machine.

I'm in a domain with a WIN NT PDC and a BDC.
the domain is jewlconsulting. it runs on the 10 subnet.
both the pdc and the bcd have 2 nics, one being
static on the 10 subnet, the second being configured
for dhcp.

My clients all run win2000 professional.
They also have 2 nic cards each, one on the inside lan hub and one
attached to a second hub that shares the cable modem.

the inside cards are configured static on the 10 subnet.
the outside cards are configured for dhcp.

I "used" to be able to go onto (this one, as an example) a client
machine, whose name is hal9000 and open a dos window
and ping hal9000. I "used" to get a reply from the 10 subnet address,
which is normal, I thought, since netbios resolves the machine name.

BUT NOW.. when I ping hal9000 I get the OUTSIDEe address as seen
below, and this is without either pdc or bdc even running.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(done on hal9000 client machine)
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.JEWELCONSULTINGing hal9000

Pinging hal9000.jewelconsulting [69.14.xx.xx] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 69.14.xx.xx:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


How was it that I used to get the 10 subnet address and how can I
make it get that again, when pinging the local machines name?

in a bizarre twist, if I disable the outside card, it works, I ping
hal9000 and get 10.x.x.x.

On the Win2k clients right click on network places, choose properties, in
the Advanced Menu select Advanced settings the internal NIC should be at the
top of the Binding order, and should be the only NIC that has Client for MS
Networks and file sharing.
The external NIC should also not have NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled.

 

[James W. Long]

Dear Kevin

I have also been playing with DNS on a Win 2000 Advanced Server,
in preparation to upgrade my old Win NT 4.0 to that, which led
me to correct some problems on NT before I upgrade.

I wonder if there is a similar way to specify the binding order
of internal / external nics on my Win NT 4.0 pdc as there was
on my 2000 clients, because right now, the hostname I specified
on the dns tab pings as the outside address, so I gave it a
fake hostname and domain name (call it "foo.bar") on the dns tab which is
different than
than my dns servers actual machine name, and actual domain name.

if I ping localhost I see it resolve to (example) "foo.bar" at 127.0.0.1
rather than it real name, "jewelntserver.jewelconsulting" at 127.0.0.1
(by real name I means its machine name and its domain.)

I would prefer the host/domain name in the DNS tab to be the same
as the machine name/domain and have it answer ping as the
inside address if that is possible. is that possible?

i.e pinging localhost returns jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
at 127.0.0.1 and pinging jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
returns 10.0.xx.xx and pinging jewelntserver returns same 10.0.xx.xx.

DNS is what is doing the resolving here. as long as DNS is
running "jewelntserver.jewelconsulting" has an inside address
and when DNS is not running, jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
cannot be resolved at all (bad ip address).

pinging "jewelntserver" (alone) resolves to the inside address
with or without DNS running. netbios is returning this
inside address, which is the correct address its configured as,
when DNS is not running.

Thanks, you
James W. Long

In

Hi all,

I'm having a wierd problem with a client machine.

I'm in a domain with a WIN NT PDC and a BDC.
the domain is jewlconsulting. it runs on the 10 subnet.
both the pdc and the bcd have 2 nics, one being
static on the 10 subnet, the second being configured
for dhcp.

My clients all run win2000 professional.
They also have 2 nic cards each, one on the inside lan hub and one
attached to a second hub that shares the cable modem.

the inside cards are configured static on the 10 subnet.
the outside cards are configured for dhcp.

I "used" to be able to go onto (this one, as an example) a client
machine, whose name is hal9000 and open a dos window
and ping hal9000. I "used" to get a reply from the 10 subnet address,
which is normal, I thought, since netbios resolves the machine name.

BUT NOW.. when I ping hal9000 I get the OUTSIDEe address as seen
below, and this is without either pdc or bdc even running.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(done on hal9000 client machine)
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.JEWELCONSULTINGing hal9000

Pinging hal9000.jewelconsulting [69.14.xx.xx] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128
Reply from 69.14.xx.xx: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=128

Ping statistics for 69.14.xx.xx:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


How was it that I used to get the 10 subnet address and how can I
make it get that again, when pinging the local machines name?

in a bizarre twist, if I disable the outside card, it works, I ping
hal9000 and get 10.x.x.x.

On the Win2k clients right click on network places, choose properties, in
the Advanced Menu select Advanced settings the internal NIC should be at the
top of the Binding order, and should be the only NIC that has Client for MS
Networks and file sharing.
The external NIC should also not have NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled.

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

Dear Kevin

I have also been playing with DNS on a Win 2000 Advanced Server,
in preparation to upgrade my old Win NT 4.0 to that, which led
me to correct some problems on NT before I upgrade.

I wonder if there is a similar way to specify the binding order
of internal / external nics on my Win NT 4.0 pdc as there was
on my 2000 clients, because right now, the hostname I specified
on the dns tab pings as the outside address, so I gave it a
fake hostname and domain name (call it "foo.bar") on the dns tab
which is different than
than my dns servers actual machine name, and actual domain name.

if I ping localhost I see it resolve to (example) "foo.bar" at
127.0.0.1 rather than it real name, "jewelntserver.jewelconsulting"
at 127.0.0.1 (by real name I means its machine name and its domain.)

I would prefer the host/domain name in the DNS tab to be the same
as the machine name/domain and have it answer ping as the
inside address if that is possible. is that possible?

i.e pinging localhost returns jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
at 127.0.0.1 and pinging jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
returns 10.0.xx.xx and pinging jewelntserver returns same
10.0.xx.xx.

DNS is what is doing the resolving here. as long as DNS is
running "jewelntserver.jewelconsulting" has an inside address
and when DNS is not running, jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
cannot be resolved at all (bad ip address).

pinging "jewelntserver" (alone) resolves to the inside address
with or without DNS running. netbios is returning this
inside address, which is the correct address its configured as,
when DNS is not running.

Thanks, you
James W. Long

To set binding order within an NT4 machine, goto Network Neighborhood
Properties, and there should be a tab called "binding" (if I remember since
I don't have an NT4 in front of me). In there you can move the cards up and
down. This will take care of your search suffix issue.

I notice you want to upgrade your NT4 envioronment...Word of advise if
upgrading this NT4 domain controller to a W2k domain controller, make
absolutely sure you set the new AD DNS domain name that you are planning on
using (as domain.com, domain.net, etc) under TCP/IP properties, DNS tab.
This name gets translated to the Primary DNS Suffix. It will save you
headaches and grief doing this.

Also, make absolutely sure you only use the internal DNS with AD.

Also keep in mind, when choosing an AD DNS domain name, you'll want a proper
domain name that follows DNS's hierarchal structure, and not a single label
name, such as what you've posted:
jewelntserver.jewelconsulting

I'm assuming jewelntserver is the computer name and jewelconsulting is your
current NT4 NetBIOS domain name. You'll need to choose something like
jewelconsulting.com, jewelconsulting.net, jewelconsulting.james, etc, and
suggested to NOT choose your current public name either. If your public name
is a .com, then choose a .net or .local name. But you need the hierarchal
structure. SIngle label names do not have a hierarchy and DNS can't handle
it (MS DNS or any other DNS for that matter).

Single label names and DNS do not play well and will also cause you numerous
issues to the point you'll need to reinstall the domain from scratch. You
can search back in the posts regarding these issues and you can see how many
people have made these mistakes.


--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

HAM AND EGGS: A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a
pig. --
=================================

 

[Kevin D. Goodknecht [MVP]]

In

Dear Kevin

I have also been playing with DNS on a Win 2000 Advanced Server,
in preparation to upgrade my old Win NT 4.0 to that, which led
me to correct some problems on NT before I upgrade.

I wonder if there is a similar way to specify the binding order
of internal / external nics on my Win NT 4.0 pdc as there was
on my 2000 clients, because right now, the hostname I specified
on the dns tab pings as the outside address, so I gave it a
fake hostname and domain name (call it "foo.bar") on the dns tab
which is different than
than my dns servers actual machine name, and actual domain name.

if I ping localhost I see it resolve to (example) "foo.bar" at
127.0.0.1 rather than it real name, "jewelntserver.jewelconsulting"
at 127.0.0.1 (by real name I means its machine name and its domain.)

I would prefer the host/domain name in the DNS tab to be the same
as the machine name/domain and have it answer ping as the
inside address if that is possible. is that possible?

i.e pinging localhost returns jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
at 127.0.0.1 and pinging jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
returns 10.0.xx.xx and pinging jewelntserver returns same
10.0.xx.xx.

DNS is what is doing the resolving here. as long as DNS is
running "jewelntserver.jewelconsulting" has an inside address
and when DNS is not running, jewelntserver.jewelconsulting
cannot be resolved at all (bad ip address).

pinging "jewelntserver" (alone) resolves to the inside address
with or without DNS running. netbios is returning this
inside address, which is the correct address its configured as,
when DNS is not running.

Thanks, you
James W. Long

Hello James,
Ace is right on the money about choosing your domain name, you don't want to
make the mistake of having a single-label DNS name. When you upgrade from
NT4, Win2k will also adopt the domain suffix in NT4 TCP/IP properties as its
primary DNS suffix, so you want that suffix on all adapters to match the DNS
name of the Win2k AD domain. As for the Binding order on NT4 it has been
three years since I've had to set the bindings, what Ace tells you sounds
correct.

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

Hello James,
Ace is right on the money about choosing your domain name, you don't
want to make the mistake of having a single-label DNS name. When you
upgrade from NT4, Win2k will also adopt the domain suffix in NT4
TCP/IP properties as its primary DNS suffix, so you want that suffix
on all adapters to match the DNS name of the Win2k AD domain. As for
the Binding order on NT4 it has been three years since I've had to
set the bindings, what Ace tells you sounds correct.



--
Best regards,
Kevin D4 Dad Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
Hope This Helps
============================

I guess he was satisfied with that response, after all, no response is a
good response?





--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

HAM AND EGGS: A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a
pig. --
=================================