INS Key Toggle

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bob
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Bob

Here's a mystery for you hardware experts. We're talking about Win2K
Pro. Prior to installing it I ran NT4 and did not experience this
problem. It began when after I installed Win2K. One other thing, I did
a so-called In-Place Upgrade - that is I installed Win2K over NT4.

Here's the problem: When I am typing and backup to clear a typo there
are certain keystrokes which automatically cause the INS key to toggle
to the overlay mode. Normally I keep it in the insert mode but when
this problem occurs it mysteriously changes as though I have hit the
INS key.

To make sure I am not accidentally hitting the INS key (I have the
standard Keytronics 104 KB) I put a paper clip in to restrain the
keys. I run with the numerical keypad out of NUM mode, so the INS key
is not the zero key but the Insert key.

After 5 years of using Win2K I have not been able to catch which
editing sequence invoked this mysterious toggle. I know that it
involves correcting a typo inside a sequence of text. The problem does
not occur when the correction is done to the end of a sequence.

For example, consider this typo:

This problem is really a nuisdnce - I wish I could fix it.

After having typed the sentence above I look up from the KB (I am not
a touch typist) and discover the error. Then I cursor to the word that
is wrong, backspace to the typo and edit the error. That's when the
INS toggle occurs because when I retype the rest of the word I erased,
it overwrites the next part of the sentence because INS has been
toggled off.

I do know that there are keystroke combinations that will invoke other
editing changes like to a different font or something. I just need to
find the one that changes the INS toggle and then find out how to
disable it - and all other embedded editing "features" I don't want.

Anyone know what is happening?

--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin
 
I'd say it is a Keyboard issue. Has nothing to do with Windows 2000 Pro. I have used it the day it came out and never saw this. Of course they were always clean installs. But one thing you may be unaware of and that is Active Desiktop in Windows NT 4 doesn't work well. In fact if Windows NT 4 has IE 5 on it (the default in Windows 2000 you know) I could probably crash the Windows NT 4 system right now. I don't know if they fixed that from NT 4 to Win 2000.

The test is right-click the taskbar choose Properties | Advanced | Remove... That should crash NT 4 with IE 5.
 
I'd say it is a Keyboard issue.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought but after disabling the INS keys, it still
happens. It's caused by some special sequence of backspace and delete
and other keys.
Has nothing to do with Windows 2000 Pro.
Click to expand...

It did not happen with NT4 and started when I installed Win2K.
I have used it the day it came out and never saw this.
Click to expand...

I suspect you do not correct typos in the exact same way I do.
The test is right-click the taskbar choose Properties | Advanced | =
Remove... That should crash NT 4 with IE 5.
Click to expand...

Nope.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin
 
That's what I thought but after disabling the INS keys, it still
happens. It's caused by some special sequence of backspace and delete
and other keys.
Click to expand...

[snip]

There could still be something screwy with the keyboard. Try using
another one for a bit to rule out the keyboard.

Another think worth mentioning is the keyboard driver. Though most
keyboards will work without installing some specific driver, it's best
to check. I've also seen "generic" keyboards work strangely when
they've replaced something swankier that had a special driver installed.
 
To start, try another keyboard. I have seen similar problems with keyboards
going defective.

--

JANA
_____


Here's a mystery for you hardware experts. We're talking about Win2K
Pro. Prior to installing it I ran NT4 and did not experience this
problem. It began when after I installed Win2K. One other thing, I did
a so-called In-Place Upgrade - that is I installed Win2K over NT4.

Here's the problem: When I am typing and backup to clear a typo there
are certain keystrokes which automatically cause the INS key to toggle
to the overlay mode. Normally I keep it in the insert mode but when
this problem occurs it mysteriously changes as though I have hit the
INS key.

To make sure I am not accidentally hitting the INS key (I have the
standard Keytronics 104 KB) I put a paper clip in to restrain the
keys. I run with the numerical keypad out of NUM mode, so the INS key
is not the zero key but the Insert key.

After 5 years of using Win2K I have not been able to catch which
editing sequence invoked this mysterious toggle. I know that it
involves correcting a typo inside a sequence of text. The problem does
not occur when the correction is done to the end of a sequence.

For example, consider this typo:

This problem is really a nuisdnce - I wish I could fix it.

After having typed the sentence above I look up from the KB (I am not
a touch typist) and discover the error. Then I cursor to the word that
is wrong, backspace to the typo and edit the error. That's when the
INS toggle occurs because when I retype the rest of the word I erased,
it overwrites the next part of the sentence because INS has been
toggled off.

I do know that there are keystroke combinations that will invoke other
editing changes like to a different font or something. I just need to
find the one that changes the INS toggle and then find out how to
disable it - and all other embedded editing "features" I don't want.

Anyone know what is happening?

--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin
 
Try using another one for a bit to rule out the keyboard.
Click to expand...

I willt try that.
Another think worth mentioning is the keyboard driver. Though most
keyboards will work without installing some specific driver, it's best
to check. I've also seen "generic" keyboards work strangely when
they've replaced something swankier that had a special driver installed.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a driver. My KB is the Keytronics 104, as generic
as it gets. But if you can recommend a KB driver to try out, please
let me know. If the problem is really a bug in the MS KB driver, at
least I will have gotten rid of it that way.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin
 
What I told you will crash NT 4 with IE 5 on it. That was never fixed except by a hotfix and it was not included in SP6a. If it doesn't happen in a NT4 to Win 2000 upgrade that is good to know. Thanks.
 
Here's the problem: When I am typing and backup to clear a typo there
are certain keystrokes which automatically cause the INS key to toggle
to the overlay mode. Normally I keep it in the insert mode but when
this problem occurs it mysteriously changes as though I have hit the
INS key.

To make sure I am not accidentally hitting the INS key (I have the
standard Keytronics 104 KB) I put a paper clip in to restrain the
keys. I run with the numerical keypad out of NUM mode, so the INS key
is not the zero key but the Insert key.
Click to expand...

It's a window's bug.I've had it happen since win95 through
win98/SE/ME/XP with different keyboards over the years.It's just one
of those MS,"Feature"<grin>.
 
It's a window's bug.I've had it happen since win95 through
win98/SE/ME/XP with different keyboards over the years.It's just one
of those MS,"Feature"<grin>.
Click to expand...

I went from Win3.1 to NT4 skipping the agony of Win9X. I didn't notice
it in NT4, only in Win2K.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The societal purpose of the media is to inculcate and defend the
economic, social, and political agenda of privileged groups that
dominate the domestic society and the state. The media serve this
purpose in many ways: through the selection of topics, distribution
of concerns, framing of issues, filtering of information, emphasis
and tone, and by keeping debate within the bounds of acceptable premises."
 
"The societal purpose of the media is to inculcate and defend the
economic, social, and political agenda of privileged groups that
dominate the domestic society and the state. The media serve this
purpose in many ways: through the selection of topics, distribution
of concerns, framing of issues, filtering of information, emphasis
and tone, and by keeping debate within the bounds of acceptable premises."
Click to expand...

Sir Humprey Appleby couldn't have put it clearer (for those familiar with
the UK TV Comedy Yes (Prime) Minister).

When time permits, it would be worth performing a clean (non-upgrade)
install of Win 2K on the machine. Upgrade installations can often cause
problems that a partition deletion/recreation/format and reinstall from
scratch will rectify. If the Win 2K media is an upgrade CD, this can still
be used on an install from scratch - the installation will ask for the
installation media for the previous OS during the install to check validity
for an upgrade but this way none of the old OS is actually installed.

Paul
 
When time permits, it would be worth performing a clean (non-upgrade)
install of Win 2K on the machine. Upgrade installations can often cause
problems that a partition deletion/recreation/format and reinstall from
scratch will rectify. If the Win 2K media is an upgrade CD, this can still
be used on an install from scratch - the installation will ask for the
installation media for the previous OS during the install to check validity
for an upgrade but this way none of the old OS is actually installed.
Click to expand...

I am going to avoid that because I simply have too much work if I do.
I can live with the nuisance if that's what it will take to get rid of
it.

I find it hard to believe that an In-Place Upgrade would cause a
particular sequence of keystrokes to cause the INS key to toggle. It
is far more likely a bug (or feature) in Win2K, in which case
reinstalling it fresh won't do any good.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The societal purpose of the media is to inculcate and defend the
economic, social, and political agenda of privileged groups that
dominate the domestic society and the state. The media serve this
purpose in many ways: through the selection of topics, distribution
of concerns, framing of issues, filtering of information, emphasis
and tone, and by keeping debate within the bounds of acceptable premises."
 
Here's a mystery for you hardware experts. We're talking about Win2K
Pro. Prior to installing it I ran NT4 and did not experience this
problem. It began when after I installed Win2K. One other thing, I did
a so-called In-Place Upgrade - that is I installed Win2K over NT4.
Click to expand...
........................................

Probably text editior. MS Word (and most others) are always looking
at keystroke combinations, just waiting for you to set off something,
intended or not.

--Vic
 
Bob said:
I am going to avoid that because I simply have too much work if I do.
I can live with the nuisance if that's what it will take to get rid of
it.

I find it hard to believe that an In-Place Upgrade would cause a
particular sequence of keystrokes to cause the INS key to toggle. It
is far more likely a bug (or feature) in Win2K, in which case
reinstalling it fresh won't do any good.
Click to expand...
If it was a Win 2K bug there would be loads of people who would have found
this (including myself when installing this OS on many school PCs - I used
to work as a computer tech). I've not seen it so I'd likely put this down to
a unique combination of software factors. Using a replacement keyboard for
trial purposes would rule out the keyboard as being the cause. I can
understand people who are reluctant to reinstall OSs on servers but there
must be masses of application software and configuring having gone into this
machine if you're unwilling to schedule a from the ground up reinstall for
the future.

I hope that all of your data is regularly backed up because if an HDD was to
fail then you'd have to do a reinstall anyway. Once you've done them a few
times, they're actually quite straight forward.

Paul
 
I can understand people who are reluctant to reinstall OSs on servers but there
must be masses of application software and configuring having gone into this
machine if you're unwilling to schedule a from the ground up reinstall for
the future.
Click to expand...

I count 53 entries in Add/Remove Programs. Of course there is a lot
more than that on my machine.
I hope that all of your data is regularly backed up because if an HDD was to
fail then you'd have to do a reinstall anyway.
Click to expand...

I have an Enermax ES-352 DynaBacker which I use for daily and weekly
backups using a 3-disk set. I also have Acronis True Image backups on
other disks.
Once you've done them a few
times, they're actually quite straight forward.
Click to expand...

Many of the applications I depend on were installed 8 years ago. I
don't even know what I did to make them work the way they do. I would
have to create a detailed manifest on every application that has
options. That alone would take a month.

If I just blew it off and started over I do not believe I could
rebuild the system the same as it is today.

I have done a few In-Place Upgrades (IPU) to clear out contaminated
operating system modules and I have run just about every Registry
cleaner worth running, some which are a bit aggressive for my needs
(forcing me to rollback the removal of certain Registry keys).

So I feel confident that my system is about as clean as it would be if
I reinstalled from scratch.

When you do an IPU, you are rebuilding the OS from scratch but
importing the Profiles and Registry. The IPU does try to clean up the
Registry, but as I said I have scrubbed it with a half dozen of the
best cleaners available.

I also keep my HD very clean. Would you believe I have 53 apps in A/R
Programs alone and only about 15 GB of HD usage total - and several GB
of that is an archive I maintain of all sorts of programs I want to
try some day (I keep them on the main disk because that way they get
backed up automatically).


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The societal purpose of the media is to inculcate and defend the
economic, social, and political agenda of privileged groups that
dominate the domestic society and the state. The media serve this
purpose in many ways: through the selection of topics, distribution
of concerns, framing of issues, filtering of information, emphasis
and tone, and by keeping debate within the bounds of acceptable premises."
 
Probably text editior. MS Word (and most others) are always looking
at keystroke combinations, just waiting for you to set off something,
intended or not.
Click to expand...

The editors I use are all based on the API that comes with Windows.

Yes, I once did set something off - all of a sudden I started getting
nothing but weird characters. I had to reboot to clear it.

I suspect there is some kind of special sequence associated with the
backspace key that I am triggering. But I can't make it happen, and
when it does happen I do not know what I did to make it happen.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The societal purpose of the media is to inculcate and defend the
economic, social, and political agenda of privileged groups that
dominate the domestic society and the state. The media serve this
purpose in many ways: through the selection of topics, distribution
of concerns, framing of issues, filtering of information, emphasis
and tone, and by keeping debate within the bounds of acceptable premises."
 
Bob said:
I am going to avoid that because I simply have too much work if I do.
I can live with the nuisance if that's what it will take to get rid of
it.

I find it hard to believe that an In-Place Upgrade would cause a
particular sequence of keystrokes to cause the INS key to toggle. It
is far more likely a bug (or feature) in Win2K, in which case
reinstalling it fresh won't do any good.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The societal purpose of the media is to inculcate and defend the
economic, social, and political agenda of privileged groups that
dominate the domestic society and the state. The media serve this
purpose in many ways: through the selection of topics, distribution
of concerns, framing of issues, filtering of information, emphasis
and tone, and by keeping debate within the bounds of acceptable premises."
Click to expand...

I do not think it is a bug in Windows 2000. I have three machines all different manufactures with a hodgepodge of keyboards. None do this. Now watch the next machine probably will and I'm all wet.
 
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