Inkjet -v- Laser for Photos ...and the winner is....

  • Thread starter Thread starter tomhoo
  • Start date Start date
T

tomhoo

I'm thinking for a laser to make a good photo, the drum and toner
rollers need to be in absolutely perfect condition to get good shaded
images.

This simply isn't possible.

The inkjet, especially with heavy overlapping, has the ability to hide
printing problems if they exist. You can actually hid a clogged jet
with heavy overlapping.

No such luck with a laser.

So, the inkjet is simply superior to the laser.

Comments?

Thanks
Tom
 
tomhoo said:
I'm thinking for a laser to make a good photo, the drum and toner
rollers need to be in absolutely perfect condition to get good shaded
images.

This simply isn't possible.

The inkjet, especially with heavy overlapping, has the ability to hide
printing problems if they exist. You can actually hid a clogged jet
with heavy overlapping.

No such luck with a laser.

So, the inkjet is simply superior to the laser.
Click to expand...

It is true that print modes can hide nozzle defects, where a few nozzles could
be completely plugged without any noticable degradation. On the other hand,
Laser's do not have nozzles to clog....

Laser prints have made great progress in the last few years in photo image
quality, but Inkjet's still have a clear edge today. The main advantages for
Inkjet are in the areas of glossy prints and color gamut.

Regards,
Bob Headrick
 
Yea, But. If you want to print durable color brochures or business cards,
especially on waterproof paper.

You best go with the laser.

MN
 
Panos! Funny you should bring up Phaser.

I just found a local Phaser 540 for $25. I couldn't resist so I bot
it. I has extra toners and is at 38k on the Imaging Unit.

I know the 8xx series uses solid color sticks, however, even the 540
"toner" is unusual. It is nothing like the toner used by say, a HP
Laserjet. The 540 toner, under the microscope, looks like melted
plastic flakes - the result of which is a nice, glossy presentation.
Even a simple black text printed on the 540 shames a typical HP
Laserjet due to this glossy print. You can actually feel it on the
paper if you try hard.

But it totally sucks for photos - longitudinal streaking.
 
tomhoo said:
Panos! Funny you should bring up Phaser.

I just found a local Phaser 540 for $25. I couldn't resist so I bot
it. I has extra toners and is at 38k on the Imaging Unit.

I know the 8xx series uses solid color sticks, however, even the 540
"toner" is unusual. It is nothing like the toner used by say, a HP
Laserjet. The 540 toner, under the microscope, looks like melted
plastic flakes - the result of which is a nice, glossy presentation.
Even a simple black text printed on the 540 shames a typical HP
Laserjet due to this glossy print. You can actually feel it on the
paper if you try hard.

But it totally sucks for photos - longitudinal streaking.
Click to expand...

I think thats a side effect of a printer thats been out of production
for 7/8 (?) years.
 
~~NoMad~~ said:
Yea, But. If you want to print durable color brochures or business cards,
especially on waterproof paper.

You best go with the laser.
Click to expand...

With my old mostly plugged inkjet (Epson 780) there were settings in
all of the print dialogs to select paper type. With my shiny new laser,
I see no such dialogs. I also don't see any recommendations in the
manual for paper other than a very concise description of the
requirements for plain paper.

Do lasers print on different paper types with no changes in settings?
Or does my color laser (HP 2550N) not print on other than plain stock.

And to let this thread drift... ;) A friend told me last night that
Canon makes all HP printers. He insists that they have an agreement to
use a different control panel and forward housing so they don't look
alike, but that the print engine is the same. I find this hard to
believe, particularly WRT the laser printers, but I thought I'd ask
anyway. (Maybe I chould check snopes.com)

thanks,
hank
 
Well, I think my HP 4P is just as old, maybe even older. They use 2
completely different kinds of toner.

I know there are different types of toner, but I always thought you had
to have the specific one for the particular printer.

I know at work, out HP 5510 does not produce glossy print.
 
HankB said:
With my old mostly plugged inkjet (Epson 780) there were settings in
all of the print dialogs to select paper type. With my shiny new laser,
I see no such dialogs. I also don't see any recommendations in the
manual for paper other than a very concise description of the
requirements for plain paper.

Do lasers print on different paper types with no changes in settings?
Or does my color laser (HP 2550N) not print on other than plain stock.

And to let this thread drift... ;) A friend told me last night that
Canon makes all HP printers. He insists that they have an agreement to
use a different control panel and forward housing so they don't look
alike, but that the print engine is the same. I find this hard to
believe, particularly WRT the laser printers, but I thought I'd ask
anyway. (Maybe I chould check snopes.com)

thanks,
hank
Click to expand...

Hank
Most laserjets do have different paper settings, I don't specifically know
about the 2550 but I am surprised that the driver does not allow you to set up
paper types. Someone with one of these may be able to provide better
information.

On your other comment, you friend is mostly correct. In the early days HP used
Canon engines for all (or at least nearly all) of its lasers. So far as I know
this is still true. I don't even know whether HP assemble the printers or
whether Canon do it for them with the appropriate badges and different bits and
pieces. Certainly the formatter and case is HP specific but the engine is
nearly always Canon. Historically I believe that when HP wanted to build the
first Laserjets they approached Xerox to build the engines but this didn't
work out so HP went to Canon, what a difference a day can make, many millions
of printers later! So far as I know HP make their own inkjet engines but Bob
Headrick may be able to advise you on that question better than I can.
Tony
 
Canon used to make the engine for HP Laser printers. I am not sure of
that now and definately not for inkjets.
 
I'm assuming you are speaking about color images.

Laser technology has greatly improved over the years, and some come
close to photo quality. The problems however, have to do with many
factors. The toner is opaque or semi-opaque. Since it is pigments and
plastic, it tends to either be matte or semigloss surfaced, and it sits
on top of the paper, not integrated into the surface, so there is often
a major distinction between the heavily toned areas and those which have
little or none. The process of placing the dots onto the paper is less
regulated and the design tends to cause more dot gain, even if the
images was printed in the same resolution, and many inkjet offer higher
resolutions and more sophisticated dithering patterns.

Laser printer use 4 colors while some inkjets use up to 10, or even more.

However, I would not completely discount color laser printers, besides
that they produce a more permanent result in much less time, and often
at lower cost, is a positive. The technology continues to improve and
speed up even more.

New developments in micro-toners and new paper surfaces may eventually
make the color laser printer the place for quick less costly photo-like
images.

Art
 
The problem with streaking has been lessened in both solid ink and toner
models. Also, solid ink (wax based) printers use nozzles, and if they
are not clear, they will streak.

Art
 
An inkjet print is very much a relationship between the liquid ink and
the paper surface. It's an "intimate" relationship, and some work very
well together while others are disastrous, just like couples. ;-)

Laser printers use toner which is a solid, made of basically a pigment
color and a binding thermal plastic. As long as the plastic can bind to
the paper surface, it will usually work, and the result, although some
subtleties of the paper surface do matter, are not extremely dependent
on the paper.

Things that do alter the usability of paper in a laser printer,
especially a color one:

1) thickness of the paper. Since heat is used to adhere the
pigment/plastic mix to the paper, if the paper is very thick it may not
get hot enough while moving over the fuser to melt the toner at the
correct temperature. This may cause the toner to not stick well to the
surface, it may flake or even peel off. Some laser printers have a
"thick paper" mode that either increases the heat level of the fuser, or
slows the paper motion through the fuser to help adhesion to the paper.

2) stiffness of the paper: many laser printers have to wrap the paper
around a drum of a certain diameter. If the paper is very stiff, it may
not conform properly to this bend, may slip or not make proper contact,
causing smudged images or light and dark banding. The stiffness of a
paper can also depend on how it was milled... (which direction the
fibers were laid down in) You will notice some papers tell you which
direction to print them in.

3) glossy versus matte surface: Since the toner has such a physical
presence on the paper surface, it will impart a lot of the surface
quality. SOme toners are very matte, some are semi-gloss. Some change
depending upon heat levels used or if a release fuser oil is used to
keep the toner from transferring to the fuser rollers. Many use a
semi-gloss toner, which means on matte paper, the low toner areas will
be more matte than those areas with a lot of toner, and vice-versa on a
glossy paper. Some use a matte toner so it blends better with matte
paper surfaces.

4) Textured surface: Laser printers transfer the toner dust to the
paper via electrostatic charges, by charging one surface one charge and
the other the opposite. However these charges and the toner powder tend
to transfer best on a very flat paper surface. If the paper has a
coarse or deep texture, the toner will tend to be picked up more and
less depending on how close to the transfer belt or drum surface it is.
The flatter the paper surface, the better the transfer.

WARNING: In general inkjet papers are NOT appropriate for laser
printers. SOme inkjet papers have plastic surfaces either on the paper
itself to prevent too much ink absorption, to provide a smoother
surface, or to prevent curling. These papers can melt in a laser
printer, and destroy the drums or fuser. Some may have the wrong ionic
charge, and some have other surfaces that are abrasive in a laser
printer and damage the drum surfaces.

There are color photocopier bond papers made that have a smoother than
normal surface, more density and slightly heavier weight or at least
slightly more robust, since some color printers require running through
up to 4 transfer cycles per page.

In general, stick with papers designated for laser or bond papers. Look
for settings for thickness and glossy versus matte or coated versus
bond, but you won't see the same number as for an inkjet printer.

Art
 
Art,

That was quite a dissertation on papers and how they work. Thanks for
the illumination!

Tom

PS. I was at Office Max and was looking at the color laser demo pages.
Some of the low cost models definitely have a nasty grainy image when
they rendered a little photo of the printer itset - it is a light
grey/cream color which is a very light shade. I think the cheap HP was
the best. They had Konica/Minolta, Brother, and I think maybe Canon.
None of them used glossy or even semigloss toner. Also checked out a
Samsung at BBuy and its demo was a duplex page - it was fun to watch
print - ejects about 2/3rd of the page and sucks it back it instantly.
Can definitely see the shading thru dots.

Anyone have anything to say about the old HP 5? There is a lot of
stuff still on eBay for them. I remember reading that they were proud
that they mixed the toner for a single pass - do I have that right?
 
tomhoo said:
Art,

That was quite a dissertation on papers and how they work. Thanks for
the illumination!

Tom

PS. I was at Office Max and was looking at the color laser demo pages.
Some of the low cost models definitely have a nasty grainy image when
they rendered a little photo of the printer itset - it is a light
grey/cream color which is a very light shade. I think the cheap HP was
the best. They had Konica/Minolta, Brother, and I think maybe Canon.
None of them used glossy or even semigloss toner. Also checked out a
Samsung at BBuy and its demo was a duplex page - it was fun to watch
print - ejects about 2/3rd of the page and sucks it back it instantly.
Can definitely see the shading thru dots.

Anyone have anything to say about the old HP 5? There is a lot of
stuff still on eBay for them. I remember reading that they were proud
that they mixed the toner for a single pass - do I have that right?
Click to expand...

I know this printer intimately (well we are at least very good friends!), but I
don't understand the question. There is only one toner compartment except for
the waste toner which is gone for ever, there is nothing to mix; or did I
misunderstand something? All monochrome lasers are single pass so far as I know.
Tony
 
Arthur Entlich said:
The problem with streaking has been lessened in both solid ink and
toner models. Also, solid ink (wax based) printers use nozzles, and
if they are not clear, they will streak.
Click to expand...
Every few thousand pages, my one develops these 'light strips' as they
call them but a quick button press on the front (and no doubt some ink
being used up) and it clears itself.
 
In message said:
With my old mostly plugged inkjet (Epson 780) there were settings in
all of the print dialogs to select paper type. With my shiny new laser,
I see no such dialogs. I also don't see any recommendations in the
manual for paper other than a very concise description of the
requirements for plain paper.

Do lasers print on different paper types with no changes in settings?
Or does my color laser (HP 2550N) not print on other than plain stock.
Click to expand...

IME they normal have a couple of selections, usually either plain or
thick, and possibly transparency as well.
And to let this thread drift... ;) A friend told me last night that
Canon makes all HP printers. He insists that they have an agreement to
use a different control panel and forward housing so they don't look
alike, but that the print engine is the same. I find this hard to
believe, particularly WRT the laser printers, but I thought I'd ask
anyway. (Maybe I chould check snopes.com)
Click to expand...

It's sort of right, Canon make lots of the print engines, as do Xerox,
then other companies will shove their own controller cards and software
round them to make them work. Sometimes it makes the machines look very
similar, eg: if you look at Xerox's cheap laser 6100(?) and Samsung's
CP500(?) they look very similar, or further up the cost price Canon's
CP660 and HP8550 (both A3 colour lasers) look very similar and I suspect
they are the same engine.

Or if you get further up the scale, Nashuatec and Infotec (and I think
Gestetner and Rex Rotary) rebadge Ricoh machines and Oce and Lanier seem
to do the same, and they seem to do some Canon ones as well.
 
Back
Top