Indexing Bug ????

[Martin Racette]

Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed
VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but
about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong
so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both
the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files
were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new
folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

 

[kirk jim]

This is not exactly a bug. Its CBD. Crap By Design

 

[Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]]

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify > click Show
All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were
previously located. Uncheck it, click OK > Close.

 

[...winston]

To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it
must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index
since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

 

[Martin Racette]

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that
folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in
both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder
1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he
MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was
automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista

 

[Dave Wood [MS]]

Normally the index will automatically update itself when files are added,
deleted, modified or moved, so I'm not sure what is happening here.

If you run the Indexing Options Control Panel and leave it for a minute to
settle down does it say the index is up to date, or that indexing is still
happening? If you look in the Event Viewer or Problem Reports and Solutions
do you see any issues related to the search service reported there?

Dave

 

[...winston]

The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2
minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15
minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed
from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to
wait.

..winston

 

[kirk jim]

Mr. MS guy person developer Sir.

Why did you guys decide to add desktop search in vista, and turn it on by
default???
I can say without doubt that this is one of the worst mistakes ever made on
windows platform
EVER!!!

You took a horribly buggy system that has problems by concept and integrated
it with windows?
And then you have it turned on by default???? OH MY GOD!!!

Suicide.... You will see that too many people will have problem with this
indexing...

it was a mistake. You should NOT index hard drives by default. You should
have left it off be default
like it was on XP. ALSO you should have made it very apparent in the gui, on
how to turn it off
or turn it on. You have hidden even the small blue link like button that was
on XP.

Vista is worse because of this "indexing feature", now its plagued be
erroneous results in search.

Your mistake was that you thought people would not keep shifting data around
and renaming them, deleting them.

Search indexes cannot and will not ever be able to catch up with so many
changes....

Bad idea-concept right from the start. The only reason MS deleveloped
desktop search in the first place was because
Google made its own version.

How pathetic.

 

[kirk jim]

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files
and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer
down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you
erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.

The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2
minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15
minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed
from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish
to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that
folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being
in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in
folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he
MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index
was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in
Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots
of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb
is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's
not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is
bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing
it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly
representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad.
And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify...,
Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't
imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what
Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version.
Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to
start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files
and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the
computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and
gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.

The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2
minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about
15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as
being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer
exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another
he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index
was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system
in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted,
it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the
index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify > click
Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in which the
files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which
is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some
files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the
Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did
checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not
there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Billy]

I don't understand why you say there is no apparent way to turn off
Indexing. It's a simple service that you DO have control over by going to
Start, typing in services, clicking on Services, scroll down to Windows
Search, stop the service, then disable it. Now Indexing is turned off, you
do not need to reboot, it's off, END OF STORY!

 

[Martin Racette]

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try and
find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far over
463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista installed since 1
February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your
200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since
there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data
corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to
finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should
be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not
too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel,
Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done.
Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what
Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see
a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files
and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the
computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and
gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.

The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2
minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about
15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as
being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer
exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another
he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index
was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system
in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted,
it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the
index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse'
option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place
some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the
Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I
did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're
not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want
them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check "Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues, but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try and
find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far
over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista installed
since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless
your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either
since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my
data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer
to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that
should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion
it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control
panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK,
done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see
a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows
the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks,
and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2
minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about
15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files
as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no
longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another
he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same
system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed
from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the
'browse' option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place
some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use
the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder.
I did checked the old folder where those files were before and
they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where
I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[kirk jim]

Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet...
I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup.

I would suggest you start researching...

By the way my indexing took more time than yours.

The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest hardware
and are detached from the "real world"

On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is with
512 mb
ram the indexing would take weeks.

I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry I
was since I first saw the programs that attempted this...

and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good... every
time I removed them, disgusted.

Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several others
I dont even remember what their names are.
Whatever is out there.. I have tried.

I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so
almost no search is needed... EVER.

I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98...
simple..

the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option in
the control panel is not enough.
You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having
trained hundreds of people on computer use,
I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful.
XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its
true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus
you are creating much confusion.


Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat
yourselves on the back for doing a good job.

I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the GUI
of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui
interface itself.

I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see better
products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone.
Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the problems.


I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be for
the GUI, for free.

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your
200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since
there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data
corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to
finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should
be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not
too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel,
Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done.
Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what
Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see
a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files
and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the
computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and
gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.

The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2
minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about
15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as
being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer
exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another
he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index
was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system
in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted,
it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the
index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse'
option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place
some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the
Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I
did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're
not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want
them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[kirk jim]

Most people dont even know what a service is my friend.. lol

Windows is for the world.. that includes children, and old people...

You have to make things easy for them.

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I'm deeply touched by your concern for Windows users, and I'm always happy
to hear constructive criticism. I very much doubt that trolling on the
forums where users come for help is going to help them though.

You are asking us to consider your position and I can see your point. But
please consider ours as well:
- Customers won't pay for 1998 experience in 2007. You can't keep a
collection of documents in an immaculate order if several people are working
on it, or even if it's just big enough (emails). You can't fit an arbitrary
classification in a hierarchical structure such as a directory tree, you've
gotta have a dynamic view of data. Indexer allows that, file system doesn't.
We don't do it just for fun, there are very compelling and demanded
scenarios that index enables.
- Power comes at a price. If we write a fast indexer it's going to consume
more resources, so everything will be slower, can't have that. If we write
indexer that only runs on demand, it won't be up to date. If we just stick
to GREP like in XP it will be way too slow to enable them scenarios. We hope
to do what will please most users out of the box, but we can't please
everyone, as some goals are mutually exclusive.
- Specifically, we can never please the power users. Even though they are
the ones generating most feedback, they are a but a tiny minority, and their
needs are so special that pleasing them is going to upset pretty much
everyone else. A classic example is searching for system/hidden files or
text in DLLs in System32 - how many users want to see ntkernel or ini files
in their search results? I know I would...
- Even the amount of rope we provide today may be too much. "Let's index
everything! Let's play a 3d game while at it! Why is it taking forever?
Indexer sucks!" - perhaps we haven't hidden Indexing Options deep enough.
It's really sad sometimes. Consider Natural Query Sintax: "email from Ilia
about indexing sent last week" could do exactly what you'd think is too good
to be true to happen. Did you know that? No? Thought so.
- Most users get Vista with new boxes, and these don't come with
800Mhz/512Mb. It's hard enough to provide high end experience even on a high
end hardware. If you dare running it on 800Mhz, well, you better be patient.
Given that retail Athlon 64 x2 3600+ is sold on newegg for $73, I wouldn't
call our requirements an ivory tower.

Like you said, we are writing an OS for the masses, so we have to make
choices that would please the masses, and so do other companies which solve
the same problem. Evidently they are not cutting the mustard for you, can't
say I'm that surprised. But it doesn't mean that the idea is flawed in
principle. I'd like to help you improve your experience, maybe you'll
reconsider. Also, thank you for offering to draw mockups, we can't accept
any such help for legal reasons. Here's another idea for you. It's fairly
trivial to query the index from VB.Net or C# code. Perhaps instead of
mockups you could write your own client for the indexer and post it on your
own website, and show us all how it's done. I'd gladly assit you You
could start here:
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/default.aspx?ForumGroupID=25&SiteID=1

Best regards,
Ilia

Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet...
I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup.

I would suggest you start researching...

By the way my indexing took more time than yours.

The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest
hardware
and are detached from the "real world"

On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is with
512 mb
ram the indexing would take weeks.

I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry I
was since I first saw the programs that attempted this...

and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good... every
time I removed them, disgusted.

Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several
others I dont even remember what their names are.
Whatever is out there.. I have tried.

I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so
almost no search is needed... EVER.

I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98...
simple..

the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option
in the control panel is not enough.
You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having
trained hundreds of people on computer use,
I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful.
XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its
true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus
you are creating much confusion.


Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat
yourselves on the back for doing a good job.

I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the GUI
of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui
interface itself.

I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see better
products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone.
Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the
problems.


I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be for
the GUI, for free.

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless
your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either
since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my
data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer
to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that
should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion
it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control
panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK,
done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see
a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows
the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks,
and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2
minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about
15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files
as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no
longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another
he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same
system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed
from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the
'browse' option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place
some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use
the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder.
I did checked the old folder where those files were before and
they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where
I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[kirk jim]

There is a problem... the design should not be left to programmers. You are
talking technical, and although I can follow, you are missing all the point.

The concepts and gui's should be left to people who are trained as designers
like industrial designers, artists, and specialists in human machine
interaction but these people must understand how computers work, without
needing however to know all the details of programming.

Basically a new breed of people are needed that are good at design,
creativity and understand
what a computer can do and how to achieve it. We are talking about Leonardo
da Vinci like people
who have strong right and left brain thinking combined.

Also I believe that much research with teams of people must be done in
models before making the actual interfaces. Only through experimentation
with mock semi-working models can you be sure what works best or not. As you
can see, I am talking about a combination of creativity with the scientific
process. Microsoft has the money and resources do to such things.

There is lack of design concept and human friendliness in all the changes in
vista. When I say design I dont mean glass borders and filp 3d effects.. I
mean functional design that provides workflow and usability ... with 2
words.. intuative interfaces.

That's my 2 cents. I know you will ignore it, but I had to give you the
correct reply. Now throw it away.

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I'm deeply touched by your concern for Windows users, and I'm always happy
to hear constructive criticism. I very much doubt that trolling on the
forums where users come for help is going to help them though.

You are asking us to consider your position and I can see your point. But
please consider ours as well:
- Customers won't pay for 1998 experience in 2007. You can't keep a
collection of documents in an immaculate order if several people are
working on it, or even if it's just big enough (emails). You can't fit an
arbitrary classification in a hierarchical structure such as a directory
tree, you've gotta have a dynamic view of data. Indexer allows that, file
system doesn't. We don't do it just for fun, there are very compelling and
demanded scenarios that index enables.
- Power comes at a price. If we write a fast indexer it's going to consume
more resources, so everything will be slower, can't have that. If we write
indexer that only runs on demand, it won't be up to date. If we just stick
to GREP like in XP it will be way too slow to enable them scenarios. We
hope to do what will please most users out of the box, but we can't please
everyone, as some goals are mutually exclusive.
- Specifically, we can never please the power users. Even though they are
the ones generating most feedback, they are a but a tiny minority, and
their needs are so special that pleasing them is going to upset pretty
much everyone else. A classic example is searching for system/hidden files
or text in DLLs in System32 - how many users want to see ntkernel or ini
files in their search results? I know I would...
- Even the amount of rope we provide today may be too much. "Let's index
everything! Let's play a 3d game while at it! Why is it taking forever?
Indexer sucks!" - perhaps we haven't hidden Indexing Options deep enough.
It's really sad sometimes. Consider Natural Query Sintax: "email from Ilia
about indexing sent last week" could do exactly what you'd think is too
good to be true to happen. Did you know that? No? Thought so.
- Most users get Vista with new boxes, and these don't come with
800Mhz/512Mb. It's hard enough to provide high end experience even on a
high end hardware. If you dare running it on 800Mhz, well, you better be
patient. Given that retail Athlon 64 x2 3600+ is sold on newegg for $73, I
wouldn't call our requirements an ivory tower.

Like you said, we are writing an OS for the masses, so we have to make
choices that would please the masses, and so do other companies which
solve the same problem. Evidently they are not cutting the mustard for
you, can't say I'm that surprised. But it doesn't mean that the idea is
flawed in principle. I'd like to help you improve your experience, maybe
you'll reconsider. Also, thank you for offering to draw mockups, we can't
accept any such help for legal reasons. Here's another idea for you. It's
fairly trivial to query the index from VB.Net or C# code. Perhaps instead
of mockups you could write your own client for the indexer and post it on
your own website, and show us all how it's done. I'd gladly assit you
You could start here:
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/default.aspx?ForumGroupID=25&SiteID=1

Best regards,
Ilia

Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet...
I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup.

I would suggest you start researching...

By the way my indexing took more time than yours.

The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest
hardware
and are detached from the "real world"

On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is
with 512 mb
ram the indexing would take weeks.

I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry I
was since I first saw the programs that attempted this...

and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good...
every time I removed them, disgusted.

Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several
others I dont even remember what their names are.
Whatever is out there.. I have tried.

I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so
almost no search is needed... EVER.

I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98...
simple..

the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option
in the control panel is not enough.
You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having
trained hundreds of people on computer use,
I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful.
XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its
true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus
you are creating much confusion.


Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat
yourselves on the back for doing a good job.

I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the
GUI of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui
interface itself.

I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see better
products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone.
Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the
problems.


I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be for
the GUI, for free.

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless
your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter
either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads".
So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take
longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index,
that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my
opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options
control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and
click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to
search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't
see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows
the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks,
and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about
2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took
about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files
as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no
longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same
system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed
from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the
'browse' option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place
some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use
the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new
folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before
and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder
where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[kirk jim]

One more thing, for a long time, I have been tempted to show in a graphical
manner (video) what I have in mind about "the vista that should have been".
Only if I show you graphically can I get the message across.

Or you can say about changes that could be done on the next version of
windows... I can make these on a site as a "hypothetical improvement" on
vista... and anyone will be free to "borrow"
any concept they may like.

I don't want money... I don't care... if anyone sees it over there and likes
the ideas they can use them or change them and make your own variations.

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I'm deeply touched by your concern for Windows users, and I'm always happy
to hear constructive criticism. I very much doubt that trolling on the
forums where users come for help is going to help them though.

You are asking us to consider your position and I can see your point. But
please consider ours as well:
- Customers won't pay for 1998 experience in 2007. You can't keep a
collection of documents in an immaculate order if several people are
working on it, or even if it's just big enough (emails). You can't fit an
arbitrary classification in a hierarchical structure such as a directory
tree, you've gotta have a dynamic view of data. Indexer allows that, file
system doesn't. We don't do it just for fun, there are very compelling and
demanded scenarios that index enables.
- Power comes at a price. If we write a fast indexer it's going to consume
more resources, so everything will be slower, can't have that. If we write
indexer that only runs on demand, it won't be up to date. If we just stick
to GREP like in XP it will be way too slow to enable them scenarios. We
hope to do what will please most users out of the box, but we can't please
everyone, as some goals are mutually exclusive.
- Specifically, we can never please the power users. Even though they are
the ones generating most feedback, they are a but a tiny minority, and
their needs are so special that pleasing them is going to upset pretty
much everyone else. A classic example is searching for system/hidden files
or text in DLLs in System32 - how many users want to see ntkernel or ini
files in their search results? I know I would...
- Even the amount of rope we provide today may be too much. "Let's index
everything! Let's play a 3d game while at it! Why is it taking forever?
Indexer sucks!" - perhaps we haven't hidden Indexing Options deep enough.
It's really sad sometimes. Consider Natural Query Sintax: "email from Ilia
about indexing sent last week" could do exactly what you'd think is too
good to be true to happen. Did you know that? No? Thought so.
- Most users get Vista with new boxes, and these don't come with
800Mhz/512Mb. It's hard enough to provide high end experience even on a
high end hardware. If you dare running it on 800Mhz, well, you better be
patient. Given that retail Athlon 64 x2 3600+ is sold on newegg for $73, I
wouldn't call our requirements an ivory tower.

Like you said, we are writing an OS for the masses, so we have to make
choices that would please the masses, and so do other companies which
solve the same problem. Evidently they are not cutting the mustard for
you, can't say I'm that surprised. But it doesn't mean that the idea is
flawed in principle. I'd like to help you improve your experience, maybe
you'll reconsider. Also, thank you for offering to draw mockups, we can't
accept any such help for legal reasons. Here's another idea for you. It's
fairly trivial to query the index from VB.Net or C# code. Perhaps instead
of mockups you could write your own client for the indexer and post it on
your own website, and show us all how it's done. I'd gladly assit you
You could start here:
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/default.aspx?ForumGroupID=25&SiteID=1

Best regards,
Ilia

Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet...
I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup.

I would suggest you start researching...

By the way my indexing took more time than yours.

The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest
hardware
and are detached from the "real world"

On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is
with 512 mb
ram the indexing would take weeks.

I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry I
was since I first saw the programs that attempted this...

and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good...
every time I removed them, disgusted.

Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several
others I dont even remember what their names are.
Whatever is out there.. I have tried.

I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so
almost no search is needed... EVER.

I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98...
simple..

the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option
in the control panel is not enough.
You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having
trained hundreds of people on computer use,
I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful.
XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its
true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus
you are creating much confusion.


Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat
yourselves on the back for doing a good job.

I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the
GUI of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui
interface itself.

I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see better
products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone.
Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the
problems.


I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be for
the GUI, for free.

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless
your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter
either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads".
So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take
longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index,
that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my
opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options
control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and
click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to
search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't
see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows
the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks,
and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about
2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took
about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files
as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no
longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same
system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed
from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the
'browse' option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place
some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use
the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new
folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before
and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder
where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Martin Racette]

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt when I
did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event
viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check
"Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an
entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a
memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and send
me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's going
on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an
extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues, but
they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try and
find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far
over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista installed
since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless
your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter
either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads".
So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take
longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index,
that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my
opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options
control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and
click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to
search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't
see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other
downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows
the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks,
and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not
turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about
2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took
about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files
as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no
longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same
system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed
from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the
'browse' option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place
some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use
the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new
folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before
and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder
where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Martin Racette]

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same search
as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm using the
TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt when
I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event
viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search
events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check
"Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an
entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a
memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and send
me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's going
on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I
won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an
extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues, but
they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try
and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far
over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista installed
since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless
your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter
either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads".
So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should
take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my
index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and
in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing
Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck
everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without
being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't
see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of
other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows
the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks,
and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it.
Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about
2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took
about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files
as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no
longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the
same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be
removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in
the 'browse' option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not
place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when
I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new
folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were
before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new
folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin