If i got OEM Vista am i Screwed

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brandon W
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Brandon W

I want to update some of the hardware in my computer and my friend said that
if you get OEM Vista you are not alound to update your hardware unless you
buy another copy of vista... and that sounds insane

is this true?
 
No, you're not screwed.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070130-8730.html

It's not an official Microsoft article, but I believe that it is correct.

The short version: you can upgrade anything except the motherboard.
Apparently you can even do upgrades to the extent that would require Vista
to be activated again.You may be able to replace the motherboard (with a
different model) if it dies, but that would be at the discretion of
Microsoft.

I imagine that you could illicitly transfer an OEM license to a new system,
if you were a competent liar.

Return address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.
 
Brandon W said:
I want to update some of the hardware in my computer and my friend said
that
if you get OEM Vista you are not alound to update your hardware unless you
buy another copy of vista... and that sounds insane

is this true?
Click to expand...


No of course it's not.....
 
Bob Knowlden said:
No, you're not screwed.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070130-8730.html

It's not an official Microsoft article, but I believe that it is correct.

The short version: you can upgrade anything except the motherboard.
Click to expand...

Not true. The EULA that the user agrees to makes NO mention of the
motherboard. All it says is "New Computer" and then singularly fails to
define what a "new computer" is....
Apparently you can even do upgrades to the extent that would require Vista
to be activated again.You may be able to replace the motherboard (with a
different model) if it dies, but that would be at the discretion of
Microsoft.
Click to expand...

No, at the discretion of the System Builder.
 
The Consumer_OEM EULA does not mention "computer." It uses the term
"device."

"2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. The software license is permanently
assigned to the device with which you acquired the software. That device is
the “licensed device.†A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a
separate device.
a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the
licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors on that
device at one time. You may not use the software on any other device."

In any event, the EULA does not address the issue of whether a component or
particular set of components constitute a new computer if changed because it
is an activation issue and not a licensing issue.
 
Well it mentions device, but a device that "you may install the software
to" and the same device that "you may use a software on".

If we look that strict that means if you acquired OEM Vista with a piece
of hardware (like a cable :)) there is no way installing/using it
without violating EULA. :)
(Well unless your acquired with a harddrive and it's internal DSP can
run it. (most likely not :)))

Csaba
 
My research a few months ago found that Microsoft considers the mother board
to the the heart of the computer and changing the mother board constitutes a
new computer.
 
No of course it's not.....

Don't dismiss it so glibly. In fact there is some truth in the issue: a
change big enough to constitute a 'new device' (computer) would exceed the
bounds of the EULA.

The complicated bit is what is meant by a "big enough change". I don't
think this has been tested in court, but I would imagine Microsoft would
balk at an upgraded motherboard.

SteveT
 
I changed a video card on a system running a shrink wrapped, store bought
version of Vista.
I had to call Microsoft support in India and get a new activation code.
Microsoft deserves the success it has had with Vista.
 
Well EULA written by and for lawyers after all.

Here is a nice example:

1. Device Connections. You may allow up to 5 other devices to connect
to the software installed on the licensed device to use File Services,
Print Services, Internet Information Services and Internet Connection
Sharing and Telephony Services. However, you may not exceed a total of
5 connections at one time.

A question:

It is really users task to count incomming connections (via portscanner)
and limit at 5 established connection (for the following services up)
(in common sense this would be the task of OS (in this case Windows
should not lock the services in 5 connection?)).

P.S.: I know the question is looks stupid but you will see where would i
love to point to.

Csaba
 
Where "computer" is defined is in the OEM (System Builder) License. That
license is not an end user license at all but licenses the installation of
the software on a computer for sale to a customer. That's the license the
buyer of OEM software (for example on NewEgg) is bound by. The purchaser of
the OEM sb license only has the right to install the software on a customer
system. He does not have the right to use the software himself. In any
case, "computer" is a:

"1. Definitions.
a. “Customer System†means a fully assembled computer system that includes a
CPU, a motherboard, a power supply, an internally mounted NAND or revolving
magnetic-based hard drive, and a case."

The end user is bound by the EULA which the system builder puts on the
machine automatically when he installs Windows (required). The OEM license
expires when the Customer System passes into the control of the customer and
the EULA takes effect at that point. The customer is bound by that EULA
once he accepts it during the first run routine.

All this is why NewEgg prints the disclaimer on the Product Specifications
Tab on the order page for each System Builder package it sells.

"Disclaimer
Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of
the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for
pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System
Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user support
for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another computer once
it is installed. To acquire Windows software with support provided by
Microsoft please see our full package "Retail" product offerings."

I hope all this helps us all at least get our terminology straight.
 
MS marketing is behind this, of course. By placing limitations to the
product in the license Marketing is seeking to "add value" to the higher
priced versions of the product in which no restriction is placed. In this
case they are differentiating in favor of Server.

It is all over the place across the Vista editions and why I am advocating
that users push for a single edition of Windows 7. It is technically
artificial as heck and I find "crippling" editions just for price
differentiation obnoxious.
 
Well that is all nice, but it is still user fault if a product not
technically not block at the limit (a 6th connection made) if we look at
the EULA.

Example:

Take an XP Home (think Vista too but never tried) system, add Windows
Component LPD Unix Print Services (it is a Printing Service EULA tells
YOU can only allow 5 connection to it (less if you using IIS/IFS
concurrently)).
Well that LPD Print Server (in my experience) will not really care about
open IIS/IFS connections, more of that not really cares how many client
using it. (think it would broke it would broke RFC if do so).

So if there is 5 IFS share connection to that machine, and another
machine on network just start scanning for LPD print servers (connection
required). EULA violated there is a nice chance user not even knew he
was violated it but still he is as he let 6th connection made.

Question: Is it users fault?

Ok i know Windows users 0.1% use Unix Printing Services.
But still if there is a limit in EULA, there should be a coresponding
technical limit in software too.

Csaba
 
The EULA also prohibts workarounds that circumvent any term of the EULA.

"8. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement
only gives you some
rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless
applicable law gives you
more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as
expressly permitted in this
agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in
the software that only
allow you to use it in certain ways. For more information, see
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/userights. You may not
· work around any technical limitations in the software;
· reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only
to the extent that
applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;...."
 
Well still to remain with the same example, LPD is windows component
(you can add/remove it via add/remove windows components), if you want
to print from Unix/Linux workstation to a Windows Workstation you need it.

(So i think we can agree until this point no EULA violation happens, as
it would be funny to violate EULA just by installing a Windows Component)

As component not have "technical limitation" as defined in EULA (well it
works as defined in RFC1179) so it is hard to circumvent it. (how to
circumvent something not exists??)

And that is the very same reason it can cause EULA violation.

So there should be a technical limitation in it (just like in IIS/IFS if
i remember good) for the 0.1% of windows users want to use it (iam not
in the group :)).
Or EULA should be more precise (like.: Windows File Services, Windows
Print Services, Internet Information Services) especially if the product
contains Unix Print Services which not contains the technical limitation
defined by EULA.

Csaba
 
Nogginsaked said:
I changed a video card on a system running a shrink wrapped, store bought
version of Vista.
I had to call Microsoft support in India and get a new activation code.
Microsoft deserves the success it has had with Vista.
Click to expand...


But it was a toll-free number, yes?
 
There would only be a EULA violation if the limitation is, as you say, cited
by the EULA. Only a few technical limitations are covered by the EULA. The
few that are cited are items Marketing has identified as signature items
that Marketing chooses to use to differentiate editions. Whatever issues
surround working with other technical limitations, compliance with the EULA
is not an issue for the non-cited limitations.
 
My research a few months ago found that Microsoft considers the mother board
to the the heart of the computer and changing the mother board constitutes a
new computer.
Click to expand...

While Microsoft may or may not "consider that", they make absolutely
NO mention of it in our licenses. Therefore, they cannot make their
"consideration" part of the license. IF they want to do that, they
MUST mention it SPECIFICALLY in the EULA.

Don't believe me? Ask a lawyer what he thinks. He will just laugh at
such a concept of "their internal consideration" being part of our
licenses.

Folks, time to grow up, and stop letting Microsoft give us an EULA,
then saying it "really means such and such".

The EULA is very clear on the terms of our license agreements.

Additionally, the U.S. Constitution is very clear about Grandfather
laws -- they are strictly illegal.

[snip irrelevant information]

IF we build our own machine, we ARE the System Builder. IN that case,
it would be at OUR OWN discretion.
 
Where "computer" is defined is in the OEM (System Builder) License. That
license is not an end user license at all but licenses the installation of
the software on a computer for sale to a customer. That's the license the
buyer of OEM software (for example on NewEgg) is bound by. The purchaser of
the OEM sb license only has the right to install the software on a customer
system. He does not have the right to use the software himself. In any
case, "computer" is a:

"1. Definitions.
a. “Customer System” means a fully assembled computer system that includes a
CPU, a motherboard, a power supply, an internally mounted NAND or revolving
magnetic-based hard drive, and a case."
Click to expand...

Since this is NOT part of our EULA, It does NOT apply to end-users.

Check with your lawyers, Colin. It is definitely NOT legal to require
one to keep terms which are NOT contained in the WRITTEN DOCUMENT
itself. ONLY a bribed judge would ever attempt to uphold such a
license. When we sign off on a legal agreement, we sign off ONLY on
the document itself.
The end user is bound by the EULA which the system builder puts on the
machine automatically when he installs Windows (required).
Click to expand...

NOT ALL SYSTEM BUILDERS do such a thing "automatically", nor do they
"Always" put Windows on their machines, Colin.

The OEM license
expires when the Customer System passes into the control of the customer and
the EULA takes effect at that point. The customer is bound by that EULA
once he accepts it during the first run routine.
Click to expand...

Ok, now, Colin: since you want to give quasi-legal opinions, what
about the man who is his OWN system builder?

IN any case, the EULA NOWHERE defines what a "computer" is (or is
not). Therefore, we are NOT bound by the System Builder License
(unless we build our own systems). So WHAT are we bound by AFTER we
install the OS, other than the EULA? Which does NOT define just what
a computer is?

I think Microsoft is going to HAVE to change the language of our
EULAs, if they want to be telling us what they MEANT to say (but DID
NOT!). IF that happens, they will have a FIGHT On their hands for
sure.
All this is why NewEgg prints the disclaimer on the Product Specifications
Tab on the order page for each System Builder package it sells.
Click to expand...

I guess you would have to ask THEIR lawyers, wouldn't you, before
going off and deciding for yourself their motives.
"Disclaimer
Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of
the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for
pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System
Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user support
for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another computer once
it is installed. To acquire Windows software with support provided by
Microsoft please see our full package "Retail" product offerings."
Click to expand...

Looks to me they are just trying to cover their arses, not inform the
end user about his EULA.
I hope all this helps us all at least get our terminology straight.
Click to expand...

ONLY A COURT OF LAW can do that. As far as I Know, the EULA has NEVER
been tested in a court of law here in the States.

You have defintely failed to do that, Colin (unless you claim to be a
licensed attorney, and can prove it).

NOT so, friend.
The EULA SPECIFICALLY gives the owner the right to install the
software on his licensed machine, if needed, as long as he legally
acquired the license (i.e., "didn't steal it"). There is definitely
NO question about that.

Then if it is NOT a "licensing issue", WHY would they DENY anyone an
activation, since as long as one keeps the terms of the EULA,
Microsoft is REQUIRED BY LAW to activate one's installation?

Face it folks, if you want a LEGALLY binding opinion, DON'T come to a
newsgroup, even if it IS sponsored by Microsoft -- in fact, ESPECIALLY
if it is sponsored by Microsoft, since they "seem" to misuse their
authority. NOTE that I am NOT accusing them of doing such a thing --
only that it appears to ME that that is what they are doing.

I do advise MVPs to STOP the appearance of giving advice about legal
matters. I also advise them to properly state that they are NOT
lawyers, and as such, NO SUCH ADVICE they give is to be taken
seriously. Otherwise, they will be subject to legal action
themselves.

If you want to find out about the Law, go to a real lawyer.

--

Donald L McDaniel
ANY advice I give is NOT to be construed as "Legal advice". ANYTHING
I publish is to be taken as MY OWN OPINON. If you want legal advice,
you MUST obtain the services of a Licensed Attorney, which I am NOT.
See a lawyer, friends.
 
The OEM (System Builder) License requires the use of additional MS software
in preparation of the machine to be sold. That installs the first run
routines. They are required.

The EULA IS automatically installed right along with the rest of Windows.
It is a part of it. The system builder is not permitted to alter the
Windows software being installed in that manner. Read the OEM (System
Builder) License for yourself. It lists the requirements for the software
to be used during the installation. The use of the OPK (OEM preinstallation
kit) is required.

"5. Distribution.
a. Software Preinstallation.
i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one copy of
the Software on a Customer System prior
to distribution. If the Software includes more than one language version,
you must install only one language
version.
ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the Pack or
otherwise made available by us. You
may use the information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to
preinstall the Software in accordance
with the OPK. See www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/OPK for additional
information about the OPK. You may
not distribute the OPK to the end user."

The License in pdf format is at
http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf
 
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