ieee488 interface and computer format...

  • Thread starter Thread starter spacekase
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spacekase

i have been struggling to get a computer and massspectometer unit to
work. you may have read some of my previous recent postings. i have
made some progress in understanding the problem. i think it is simple
but not easy. here's what i have so far...

old system was dos 6.0/varian saturn software with an iotech gp488b
interface board. it was on an old 486 and ran fine until the harddrive
went bad. i was very busy. coworkers couldnt get the harddrive to work
or copy. we sent it to a local computer (hack) place, where a
harddrive copy was acquired. this harddrive works well in other
computers but not in the original 486, and it wont run the MS unit.
so... we bought a computer setup for the MS unit from a legit
supplier. it wont run the unit. it communicates but wont download the
firmware to the unit successfully.

after playing around with computers and harddrives, i found that the
data being transmitted in the new harddrives is the wrong/different
format. after multiple reboots in the old 486 with the 2 new
harddrives, i can get a prompt and it sometimes produces directories.
it wont run dos 'edit' tho (error is 'invalid command'). files are
listed in unusual characters when i try to access the smaller
directories. i suspect the old 486 is formatted similar but different
than the 2 new drives i have. i also suspect the ms unit is expecting
data in the other format.

putting the old (bad) harddrive in newer computers gives an 'OS
missing' error message. it is not. with time and effort (i.e. multiple
reboots), i can still get this thing to run and download data to the
MS unit. its not stable but it operates for a short time.

in newer computers, the newer harddrives all boot up, run fine, and
transmit to the MS, but error is 'software download unsucessful'.

the 488 interface software is well hidden in my application software.
i cannot find it and cant alter it. i guess my question is, how do i
get a harddrive configured/formatted in this older setup??? i am sure
this is a language/data format barrier between newer formatting and
the older unit - probably based on its chipset. info from manuals at
iotech suggest that drivers may not overcome my heavy menu-based
software format.

how do i recognize and identify the old 486 format and language? how
can i get a harddrive formatted with dos in this other old 486 setup?
it seems like all other computer units have inter-compatible
formatting, except this one. and i think i need this old setup to run
this MS unit. please help...
 
spacekase said:
i have been struggling to get a computer and massspectometer unit to
work. you may have read some of my previous recent postings. i have
made some progress in understanding the problem. i think it is simple
but not easy. here's what i have so far...

old system was dos 6.0/varian saturn software with an iotech gp488b
interface board. it was on an old 486 and ran fine until the harddrive
went bad. i was very busy. coworkers couldnt get the harddrive to work
or copy. we sent it to a local computer (hack) place, where a
harddrive copy was acquired. this harddrive works well in other
computers but not in the original 486, and it wont run the MS unit.
so... we bought a computer setup for the MS unit from a legit
supplier. it wont run the unit. it communicates but wont download the
firmware to the unit successfully.

after playing around with computers and harddrives, i found that the
data being transmitted in the new harddrives is the wrong/different
format. after multiple reboots in the old 486 with the 2 new
harddrives, i can get a prompt and it sometimes produces directories.
it wont run dos 'edit' tho (error is 'invalid command'). files are
listed in unusual characters when i try to access the smaller
directories. i suspect the old 486 is formatted similar but different
than the 2 new drives i have. i also suspect the ms unit is expecting
data in the other format.

putting the old (bad) harddrive in newer computers gives an 'OS
missing' error message. it is not. with time and effort (i.e. multiple
reboots), i can still get this thing to run and download data to the
MS unit. its not stable but it operates for a short time.

in newer computers, the newer harddrives all boot up, run fine, and
transmit to the MS, but error is 'software download unsucessful'.

the 488 interface software is well hidden in my application software.
i cannot find it and cant alter it. i guess my question is, how do i
get a harddrive configured/formatted in this older setup??? i am sure
this is a language/data format barrier between newer formatting and
the older unit - probably based on its chipset. info from manuals at
iotech suggest that drivers may not overcome my heavy menu-based
software format.

how do i recognize and identify the old 486 format and language? how
can i get a harddrive formatted with dos in this other old 486 setup?
it seems like all other computer units have inter-compatible
formatting, except this one. and i think i need this old setup to run
this MS unit. please help...
Click to expand...

As long as one did not use any "drive manager", disk compression, etc
and assuming IDE drives were used with plain DOS (*not* Win9x etc), the
format has not changed over the years; it is called FAT16.
Now there are some drives that refuse to work with any other brands
and even same-brand but different technology: MAXTOR.
If the older drive was a Maxtor, you will never get it to work with
any other hard drive in the same computer, unless you can get another
Maxtor of the same vintage.
Now if that "hack" HD copy was from an old Maxtor, and the copy is a
bit-level copy, it may be possible that the nasty attribute may also
have beenn transferred.
If there is any way you can get the preferrred HD working on any
computer, use the serial or parallel port to transfer needed files to a
newer system.
A possible way to get the "old" system going is to use a *clean*
bootable DOS floppy, and work from there.
"Clean" means that the bootable floppy has never been written on it
since the time it was created by a non-corrupted true DOS (no Win
emulation BS) system.
And *WRITE PROTECT* that DOS boot floppy so that it cannot be screwed
up.

Now if some non-standard DOS, or CP/M or Unix variant or Win variant
was used on that old system, that could severly complicate matters, so
make *damn* sure about what you have.
 
spacekase said:
i have been struggling to get a computer and massspectometer unit
to work. you may have read some of my previous recent postings. i
have made some progress in understanding the problem. i think it
is simple but not easy. here's what i have so far...
Click to expand...

I have no answers for you, but you are destroying any continuity
by starting a new thread. You should have composed this as a
reply to something in the older thread.
 
CBFalconer said:
I have no answers for you, but you are destroying any continuity
by starting a new thread. You should have composed this as a
reply to something in the older thread.
Click to expand...

i posted a new thread for several reasons. first is i received no
replies at all with orig ?s. second is that i believe i have a
different issue to deal with in getting the system working than i did
when i first posted. if you want to read my previous posts, they are
but a few days old and easy to spot.

now let me say that i am a chemist. not a programmer. my company has
little to no $ for real equipment, so i ahve to make due with what ive
got and repair the broken crap. this is one - and it major for me
(us). i am not clueless tho and im a good problem solver.

i do not believe that i have an 488 board programming issue. i believe
i have a language issue between my equipment and the computer
software. much of this is explained above. i do not know how to find
out what language is being transmitted to the equipment. i would like
to find out how to do this. i DO NOT have the software, or the
manuals, or the $ to even talk to the orig MFG. i beliwve that the
'legit rebuilder' i got the stuff from is clueless on this issue. they
sold me a comp from a working unit that was identical equipment. it
did not include the 488 board. i've got a board from the old unit. it
came in the unit from the mfg and did not include manuals. it almost
works. F*** it does work, except for the language issue. it runs fine
on the old HD but will not run on the copy of the old HD - supposed to
be an exact copy. exact autoexec.bat and config.sys. - neither of
which show any reference to gpib, hpib, ieee488, 488, nothing.
dos/mouse/saturn. thats it. no immed access to the board drivers. i
know they are in the equip software pkg and the iotech manuals nearly
confirm this is so. my 488 settings and jumpers are 1st i/o, dma3,
irq5. they are compatible with the systems. this is so because they
work and from info in the iotech manuals. the issue is language. where
do i id this without manuals????
 
spacekase said:
i posted a new thread for several reasons. first is i received no
replies at all with orig ?s. second is that i believe i have a
different issue to deal with in getting the system working than i did
when i first posted. if you want to read my previous posts, they are
but a few days old and easy to spot.

now let me say that i am a chemist. not a programmer. my company has
little to no $ for real equipment, so i ahve to make due with what ive
got and repair the broken crap. this is one - and it major for me
(us). i am not clueless tho and im a good problem solver.

i do not believe that i have an 488 board programming issue. i believe
i have a language issue between my equipment and the computer
software. much of this is explained above. i do not know how to find
out what language is being transmitted to the equipment. i would like
to find out how to do this. i DO NOT have the software, or the
manuals, or the $ to even talk to the orig MFG. i beliwve that the
'legit rebuilder' i got the stuff from is clueless on this issue. they
sold me a comp from a working unit that was identical equipment. it
did not include the 488 board. i've got a board from the old unit. it
came in the unit from the mfg and did not include manuals. it almost
works. F*** it does work, except for the language issue. it runs fine
on the old HD but will not run on the copy of the old HD - supposed to
be an exact copy. exact autoexec.bat and config.sys. - neither of
which show any reference to gpib, hpib, ieee488, 488, nothing.
dos/mouse/saturn. thats it. no immed access to the board drivers. i
know they are in the equip software pkg and the iotech manuals nearly
confirm this is so. my 488 settings and jumpers are 1st i/o, dma3,
irq5. they are compatible with the systems. this is so because they
work and from info in the iotech manuals. the issue is language. where
do i id this without manuals????
Click to expand...

As you may know now, there is a special "language" or protocol to
"talk" and "listen" via the HPIB board, and every piece of equipment has
its own commands that one needs to use for making measurements.
So, if one has those commands available via manuals, then one could
write code to do what is needed, providing that one has the driver
software for the HPIB board (or equivalent).
If this minimal part can be done, then you could ignore the fancy
program that you have the problems with.
Questions:
1) where are you?
2) how much data is on the HD?
Perhaps you are close enough that i could drag a computer and lotza
software to your site and see what can be done (been an electronic tech
for over 50 years).
Or, perhaps you can copy the HD contents to a DVD disk, which holds
only 4.7Gbytes - but that may be more than enough for an old system.
To do so, attach the HD as the Secondary Master or Secondary Slave and
use a DVD burner + data copy program.
I am avoiding the term "backup" since that may entail a special format
that i might not be able to read (unless it is Pinnacle Instant CD/DVD).
i may be able to extract the HPIB commands, and with some help
concerning how the fancy program works, may be able to associate which
ones are for which (external) device.
***
Yo did not say if that original HD (or the copy) was Maxtor.
To contact me via email, replace robert with bob
 
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