Identifying the Katmai

[Gregory L. Hansen]

If I need a PIII that fits the same slot and uses the same VRM as a PII
400 "Deschutes", that's a Katmai? If I'm told PIII, slot 1, 512K cache,
100 MHz bus, 2.0 volts, then it will work, and I can be sure that it's not
something weird that's almost but not quite compatible?

 

[Vanguard]

From http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/q21999.htm, "... the "Katmai"
processor, later to be externally named the Pentium III processor ...".
So Katmai just means Pentium III (for the SECC2 SC242 slot1 model). The
pre-release names are irrelevant since you're asking about released
products.

For my 3-year old AOpen AX6BC, "... supports CPU VID. The CPU core
voltage will be automatically detected and the range is from 1.3V to
3.5V. It is not necessary to set the core voltage." See
http://english.aopen.com.tw/tech/techinside/jumperless.htm. This
motherboard supports both the Pentium 2, 3, and Celeron so I would think
the voltage regulators would would cover the Vcc range for them all.
Unfortunately mine came with the SECC1 rails so the SECC2 backplate for
the P3 doesn't snap into it. I use a couple wire ties across the top to
keep the CPU in its slot. I built a couple others back then using the
P3 but don't recall having to monkey around with VRMs. I recall having
to set jumpers on the motherboard for earlier processors but not for the
P3 (and I don't overclock so I don't need jumpers to up the voltage).
Do you actually have to choose or replace a VRM? What motherboard do
you have? If you identify the motherboard then someone that also has
the same one and did the same upgrade could help you.

I have the P3 800MHz 256KB SECC2. "VID" means voltage identification.
Intel's datasheet at
ftp://download.intel.com/design/PentiumIII/datashts/24445209.pdf, page
18, says, "There are 5 voltage identification pins on the SC242
connector. These pins can be used to support an automatic selection of
power voltages. These pins are not signals, but are either an open
circuit or short circuit to Vss on the processor. The combination of
opens and shorts defines the voltage required by the processor or core."
Page 19 has a table of the open/short combinations and the Vcc they
represent, ranging from 1.30 to 3.5 volts but only the bolded voltages
need to be supported for the P3 (1.60 to 2.05 volts). The AOpen
hardware monitors shows my P3 800MHz 256KB CPU is using 1.67 volts (so
my guess it the VID says to use 1.65 volts).

Page 26 starts a table showing what voltages are used by what speed for
the P3 CPU. I suspect the CPUID column shows the family, model, and
stepping ID. I have the WCPUID utility from http://www.h-oda.com/ and
it reports my P3 as family = 6, model = 8, stepping ID = 3, so I suspect
my CPUID is 0683. If I go down the Vcc table to the 800MHz units (mine
is an version E which means it has the advanced cache; B means it
supports the 133MHz FSB), I see both the 800 and 800EB for CPUID of 0683
use 1.65 volts for Vcc. You mentioned a Vcc of 2.0 volts so your P3
would have to be 600MHz or lower.




says the P3 SC242 (slot1) uses Vcc of
According to this document (page 11), the 512KB cache came only on the
P3 ranging from 450MHz to 600MHz.

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If I need a PIII that fits the same slot and uses the same VRM as a PII
400 "Deschutes", that's a Katmai? If I'm told PIII, slot 1, 512K cache,
100 MHz bus, 2.0 volts, then it will work, and I can be sure that it's not
something weird that's almost but not quite compatible?

Kekulé

 

[Gregory L. Hansen]

From http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/q21999.htm, "... the "Katmai"
processor, later to be externally named the Pentium III processor ...".
So Katmai just means Pentium III (for the SECC2 SC242 slot1 model). The
pre-release names are irrelevant since you're asking about released
products.

Since the PIII Coppermine and PIII Xeon have also been released, I think
"Katmai" is still useful to identify the PIII that's not a Coppermine or
Xeon.

Do you actually have to choose or replace a VRM?

According to HP I need part number 0950-2837 and it can't supply the
voltage that a "Coppermine" needs. I haven't yet determined whether
that's just HP's version of a generic VRM, or a proprietary part that
can't be substituted.

What motherboard do
you have? If you identify the motherboard then someone that also has
the same one and did the same upgrade could help you.

BX chipset. Aside from that, it's the motherboard that comes in an HP
Kayak XAS, which I'm sure is their own design.

I have the P3 800MHz 256KB SECC2. "VID" means voltage identification.
Intel's datasheet at
ftp://download.intel.com/design/PentiumIII/datashts/24445209.pdf, page
18, says, "There are 5 voltage identification pins on the SC242
connector. These pins can be used to support an automatic selection of
power voltages. These pins are not signals, but are either an open
circuit or short circuit to Vss on the processor. The combination of
opens and shorts defines the voltage required by the processor or core."
Page 19 has a table of the open/short combinations and the Vcc they
represent, ranging from 1.30 to 3.5 volts but only the bolded voltages
need to be supported for the P3 (1.60 to 2.05 volts). The AOpen
hardware monitors shows my P3 800MHz 256KB CPU is using 1.67 volts (so
my guess it the VID says to use 1.65 volts).

Huh. I always read that you can't go from Katmai to Coppermine because
the Coppermine uses different voltages. HP says that, too. Maybe those
five pins *could* identify the voltage needed if the motherboard is built
to do that and supply it.

Anyway, I've found another option to think about. A 1 GHz PIII adapter
kit from PowerLeap for $100 per CPU, with its own on-board voltage supply.
They say it should be compatible with the XAS, although they haven't
tested it.

 

[kony]

From http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/q21999.htm, "... the "Katmai"
processor, later to be externally named the Pentium III processor ...".
So Katmai just means Pentium III (for the SECC2 SC242 slot1 model). The
pre-release names are irrelevant since you're asking about released
products.

Are you sure there wasn't a Coppermine PIII 600MHz? I think there
was, so "any" PIII isn't specific enough.

For my 3-year old AOpen AX6BC, "... supports CPU VID. The CPU core
voltage will be automatically detected and the range is from 1.3V to
3.5V. It is not necessary to set the core voltage." See
http://english.aopen.com.tw/tech/techinside/jumperless.htm. This
motherboard supports both the Pentium 2, 3, and Celeron so I would think
the voltage regulators would would cover the Vcc range for them all.

The AX6BC was a very good board for it's time though, likely far more
versatile than his due to it's OEM-heritage. Also your board's
voltage is determined by the onboard regulator, and his regulator is
an add-on part, so we can't assume what it'll support till he gets it.
Odds are it'll support down to at least 1.8V, but below that who
knows? At least it's almost a certainty that if it's for a similar
machine, it will support the needed Katmai voltage.


Dave

 

[kony]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:52:29 +0000 (UTC),

If I need a PIII that fits the same slot and uses the same VRM as a PII
400 "Deschutes", that's a Katmai?

In theory, it's possible that a non-Katmai, Coppermine PIII would both
fit in the same slot and could use the same VRM (if it's an
(automatic) adjustable VRM, not a fixed-voltage).

If I'm told PIII, slot 1, 512K cache,
100 MHz bus, 2.0 volts, then it will work, and I can be sure that it's not
something weird that's almost but not quite compatible?

The keywords here are "Katmai", "512K", "2.0V" (or 2.05V?). That's
what you want. Those qualities are unique to the Katmai, aren't
shared by the alternative PIII 600, the Coppermine, which is 256K,
1.5-1.75V.

You may use the model/family info stamped on your current CPU to see
exactly where it is in Intel's product line by consulting the PIII
datasheet, available on Intel's website. I dont' have a direct link
at the moment but clicking through their site or a Google search
should find it. http://www.intel.com


Dave


Dave

 

[~misfit~]

Are you sure there wasn't a Coppermine PIII 600MHz? I think there
was, so "any" PIII isn't specific enough.

There indeed was a coppermine PIII 600.

 

[~misfit~]

If I need a PIII that fits the same slot and uses the same VRM as a PII
400 "Deschutes", that's a Katmai? If I'm told PIII, slot 1, 512K cache,
100 MHz bus, 2.0 volts, then it will work, and I can be sure that it's not
something weird that's almost but not quite compatible?

Yep, that's it. From 450MHz through to 600. The coppermine's are 256K cache
and 1.7 (or 1.75) volts. There were coppermine 600s available (coppermines
were available from 500MHz and up*) so be sure it's 512K/2.0v.

*: http://support.premiopc.com/faqs/bxpro-1.htm Half-way down the page.

 

[~misfit~]

From http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/q21999.htm, "... the "Katmai"
processor, later to be externally named the Pentium III processor ...".
So Katmai just means Pentium III (for the SECC2 SC242 slot1 model). The
pre-release names are irrelevant since you're asking about released
products.

The pre-release names aren't irrelevant at all. Some boards will only
support Katmais, while others will support both Katmai and coppermine. Yet
others will support Coppermines only or Coppermines and Tualatin. That page
you linked to was written in May 1999 and, at the time, even Coppermines
weren't around. Now there are three types of PIII it can be beneficial to
state whether you are referring to a Katmai, Coppermine or Tualatin. They
all have differing requirements as far as motherboard support goes.

 

[~misfit~]

Since the PIII Coppermine and PIII Xeon have also been released, I think
"Katmai" is still useful to identify the PIII that's not a Coppermine or
Xeon.


According to HP I need part number 0950-2837 and it can't supply the
voltage that a "Coppermine" needs. I haven't yet determined whether
that's just HP's version of a generic VRM, or a proprietary part that
can't be substituted.


BX chipset. Aside from that, it's the motherboard that comes in an HP
Kayak XAS, which I'm sure is their own design.


Huh. I always read that you can't go from Katmai to Coppermine because
the Coppermine uses different voltages. HP says that, too. Maybe those
five pins *could* identify the voltage needed if the motherboard is built
to do that and supply it.

Anyway, I've found another option to think about. A 1 GHz PIII adapter
kit from PowerLeap for $100 per CPU, with its own on-board voltage supply.
They say it should be compatible with the XAS, although they haven't
tested it.

Be wary. I've known of several people who have had no luck with adapters in
dual-CPU configurations. If you try it just be sure you can return them for
a refund.

 

[Gregory L. Hansen]

In theory, it's possible that a non-Katmai, Coppermine PIII would both
fit in the same slot and could use the same VRM (if it's an
(automatic) adjustable VRM, not a fixed-voltage).


The keywords here are "Katmai", "512K", "2.0V" (or 2.05V?). That's
what you want. Those qualities are unique to the Katmai, aren't
shared by the alternative PIII 600, the Coppermine, which is 256K,
1.5-1.75V.

Thanks. It seems rare that I can nail down something like that without a
bunch of qualifiers.

 

[kony]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:24:44 +0000 (UTC),

Thanks. It seems rare that I can nail down something like that without a
bunch of qualifiers.

Well I was one-off too, forgot to mention that it needs be the 100MHz
FSB version, but you already knew that. Ideally you might seek a 2nd
CPU with same stepping, which is stamped on the (top edge?) of the
current CPU, for example it might be coded similar to "SL3JM".

IIRC, there weren't very many [PIII 600MHz Katmai 100MHz FSB] made,
good luck finding some. Though if it were my box, I'd try a good
name-brand slotket like an Iwill or MSI Master 6905, jumpered to 1.8V,
and a Coppermine Celeron 1.1GHz... not two of 'em, just one. Of
course there's a chance it won't work, so you'd want to buy from
someplace with a good return policy. Although these days it might be
as hard to find a good slotket as the PIII CPU.


Dave

 

[Gregory L. Hansen]

Thanks. It seems rare that I can nail down something like that without a
bunch of qualifiers.

Well I was one-off too, forgot to mention that it needs be the 100MHz
FSB version, but you already knew that. Ideally you might seek a 2nd
CPU with same stepping, which is stamped on the (top edge?) of the
current CPU, for example it might be coded similar to "SL3JM".

IIRC, there weren't very many [PIII 600MHz Katmai 100MHz FSB] made,
good luck finding some. Though if it were my box, I'd try a good
name-brand slotket like an Iwill or MSI Master 6905, jumpered to 1.8V,
and a Coppermine Celeron 1.1GHz... not two of 'em, just one. Of
course there's a chance it won't work, so you'd want to buy from
someplace with a good return policy. Although these days it might be
as hard to find a good slotket as the PIII CPU.

What's looking more attractive now is the 1 GHz PIII upgrade from
PowerLeap, their adapter has an on-board voltage regulator making the VRM
on the motherboard superfluous. Two of 'em, not just one. $100 per
processor. The only issue remaining, I think, is the BIOS, and HP tech
support doesn't seem to know whether the BIOS will support Coppermines.
I'm trying to find if they've ever sold a Kayak XAS with a Coppermine,
because if they did, maybe the BIOS will give me the support I need.

 

[~misfit~]

Thanks. It seems rare that I can nail down something like that without a
bunch of qualifiers.

Well I was one-off too, forgot to mention that it needs be the 100MHz
FSB version, but you already knew that. Ideally you might seek a 2nd
CPU with same stepping, which is stamped on the (top edge?) of the
current CPU, for example it might be coded similar to "SL3JM".

IIRC, there weren't very many [PIII 600MHz Katmai 100MHz FSB] made,
good luck finding some. Though if it were my box, I'd try a good
name-brand slotket like an Iwill or MSI Master 6905, jumpered to 1.8V,
and a Coppermine Celeron 1.1GHz... not two of 'em, just one. Of
course there's a chance it won't work, so you'd want to buy from
someplace with a good return policy. Although these days it might be
as hard to find a good slotket as the PIII CPU.

What's looking more attractive now is the 1 GHz PIII upgrade from
PowerLeap, their adapter has an on-board voltage regulator making the VRM
on the motherboard superfluous. Two of 'em, not just one. $100 per
processor. The only issue remaining, I think, is the BIOS, and HP tech
support doesn't seem to know whether the BIOS will support Coppermines.
I'm trying to find if they've ever sold a Kayak XAS with a Coppermine,
because if they did, maybe the BIOS will give me the support I need.

Surely these CPU/Adapter packages are using Tualatin CPUs and not
Coppermine?

 

[kony]

Thanks. It seems rare that I can nail down something like that without a
bunch of qualifiers.

Well I was one-off too, forgot to mention that it needs be the 100MHz
FSB version, but you already knew that. Ideally you might seek a 2nd
CPU with same stepping, which is stamped on the (top edge?) of the
current CPU, for example it might be coded similar to "SL3JM".

IIRC, there weren't very many [PIII 600MHz Katmai 100MHz FSB] made,
good luck finding some. Though if it were my box, I'd try a good
name-brand slotket like an Iwill or MSI Master 6905, jumpered to 1.8V,
and a Coppermine Celeron 1.1GHz... not two of 'em, just one. Of
course there's a chance it won't work, so you'd want to buy from
someplace with a good return policy. Although these days it might be
as hard to find a good slotket as the PIII CPU.

What's looking more attractive now is the 1 GHz PIII upgrade from
PowerLeap, their adapter has an on-board voltage regulator making the VRM
on the motherboard superfluous. Two of 'em, not just one. $100 per
processor. The only issue remaining, I think, is the BIOS, and HP tech
support doesn't seem to know whether the BIOS will support Coppermines.
I'm trying to find if they've ever sold a Kayak XAS with a Coppermine,
because if they did, maybe the BIOS will give me the support I need.

Surely these CPU/Adapter packages are using Tualatin CPUs and not
Coppermine?

If his board will work with a Coppermine it'd likely work with a
Tualatin too, so long as he uses one of the adapters with the onboard
power supply. It might work without an onboard power supply, but
the odds are lower.

I was previously suggesting a "normal" FCPGA-compatible, slotket
without this onboard power supply, but with the voltage jumpers so he
could set it to 1.8V if his board/VRM didn't support anything lower,
but that's only appropriate for the Coppermine, 1.8V is too high for a
Tualatin without extraordinary cooling.


Dave

 

[Gregory L. Hansen]

Thanks. It seems rare that I can nail down something like that without a
bunch of qualifiers.

Well I was one-off too, forgot to mention that it needs be the 100MHz
FSB version, but you already knew that. Ideally you might seek a 2nd
CPU with same stepping, which is stamped on the (top edge?) of the
current CPU, for example it might be coded similar to "SL3JM".

IIRC, there weren't very many [PIII 600MHz Katmai 100MHz FSB] made,
good luck finding some. Though if it were my box, I'd try a good
name-brand slotket like an Iwill or MSI Master 6905, jumpered to 1.8V,
and a Coppermine Celeron 1.1GHz... not two of 'em, just one. Of
course there's a chance it won't work, so you'd want to buy from
someplace with a good return policy. Although these days it might be
as hard to find a good slotket as the PIII CPU.

What's looking more attractive now is the 1 GHz PIII upgrade from
PowerLeap, their adapter has an on-board voltage regulator making the VRM
on the motherboard superfluous. Two of 'em, not just one. $100 per
processor. The only issue remaining, I think, is the BIOS, and HP tech
support doesn't seem to know whether the BIOS will support Coppermines.
I'm trying to find if they've ever sold a Kayak XAS with a Coppermine,
because if they did, maybe the BIOS will give me the support I need.

Surely these CPU/Adapter packages are using Tualatin CPUs and not
Coppermine?

At 1 GHz I figured they'd still be in Coppermine. They have Tualatin
packages, but I don't think that's the PL-iP3/T they recommend for the
Kayak.

But one way or the other, if it works at the full clock speed and dual
processes, I don't really care what the codename is. (So I've rejected
the 1.4 GHz Celeron version as not being dual processing-friendly.)

 

[~misfit~]

Thanks. It seems rare that I can nail down something like that

without
a

bunch of qualifiers.

Well I was one-off too, forgot to mention that it needs be the 100MHz
FSB version, but you already knew that. Ideally you might seek a 2nd
CPU with same stepping, which is stamped on the (top edge?) of the
current CPU, for example it might be coded similar to "SL3JM".

IIRC, there weren't very many [PIII 600MHz Katmai 100MHz FSB] made,
good luck finding some. Though if it were my box, I'd try a good
name-brand slotket like an Iwill or MSI Master 6905, jumpered to 1.8V,
and a Coppermine Celeron 1.1GHz... not two of 'em, just one. Of
course there's a chance it won't work, so you'd want to buy from
someplace with a good return policy. Although these days it might be
as hard to find a good slotket as the PIII CPU.

What's looking more attractive now is the 1 GHz PIII upgrade from
PowerLeap, their adapter has an on-board voltage regulator making the VRM
on the motherboard superfluous. Two of 'em, not just one. $100 per
processor. The only issue remaining, I think, is the BIOS, and HP tech
support doesn't seem to know whether the BIOS will support Coppermines.
I'm trying to find if they've ever sold a Kayak XAS with a Coppermine,
because if they did, maybe the BIOS will give me the support I need.

Surely these CPU/Adapter packages are using Tualatin CPUs and not
Coppermine?

If his board will work with a Coppermine it'd likely work with a
Tualatin too, so long as he uses one of the adapters with the onboard
power supply. It might work without an onboard power supply, but
the odds are lower.
Agreed.

I was previously suggesting a "normal" FCPGA-compatible, slotket
without this onboard power supply, but with the voltage jumpers so he
could set it to 1.8V if his board/VRM didn't support anything lower,
but that's only appropriate for the Coppermine, 1.8V is too high for a
Tualatin without extraordinary cooling.

Definately. The tualatins only require 1.475v

 

[~misfit~]

Thanks. It seems rare that I can nail down something like that

without
a

bunch of qualifiers.

Well I was one-off too, forgot to mention that it needs be the 100MHz
FSB version, but you already knew that. Ideally you might seek a 2nd
CPU with same stepping, which is stamped on the (top edge?) of the
current CPU, for example it might be coded similar to "SL3JM".

IIRC, there weren't very many [PIII 600MHz Katmai 100MHz FSB] made,
good luck finding some. Though if it were my box, I'd try a good
name-brand slotket like an Iwill or MSI Master 6905, jumpered to 1.8V,
and a Coppermine Celeron 1.1GHz... not two of 'em, just one. Of
course there's a chance it won't work, so you'd want to buy from
someplace with a good return policy. Although these days it might be
as hard to find a good slotket as the PIII CPU.

What's looking more attractive now is the 1 GHz PIII upgrade from
PowerLeap, their adapter has an on-board voltage regulator making the VRM
on the motherboard superfluous. Two of 'em, not just one. $100 per
processor. The only issue remaining, I think, is the BIOS, and HP tech
support doesn't seem to know whether the BIOS will support Coppermines.
I'm trying to find if they've ever sold a Kayak XAS with a Coppermine,
because if they did, maybe the BIOS will give me the support I need.

Surely these CPU/Adapter packages are using Tualatin CPUs and not
Coppermine?

At 1 GHz I figured they'd still be in Coppermine. They have Tualatin
packages, but I don't think that's the PL-iP3/T they recommend for the
Kayak.

It could be a coppermine. 1GHz celerons are available in both flavours,
although Intel stopped making the coppermine ages ago, that's why I thought
it's probably a tualatin. In fact I think that's what the /T on the end
means.

(I just did a really quick google search and it seems like a tui)

But one way or the other, if it works at the full clock speed and dual
processes, I don't really care what the codename is.

For sure.