IDE cables

  • Thread starter Thread starter tRevHead
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tRevHead

Hello peeps,
In every pc box that I have opened up, I have found the HDD and the CD ROM
share the one ribbon-cable and I have been told that its better to have them
separate.
Is it better to have two separate ribbon-cables for the HDD and CDROM from
the main board?
How can I check to see if they share the one channel without openning up the
box in Win XP?
Also, whats the difference between the blue and white IDE connectors on the
main board?

tRev.
 
tRevHead said:
Hello peeps,
In every pc box that I have opened up, I have found the HDD and the
CD ROM share the one ribbon-cable and I have been told that its
better to have them separate.
Is it better to have two separate ribbon-cables for the HDD and CDROM
from the main board?

I prefer to have them on seperate controllers if there are only two IDE
devices. However a lot of PC builders cut costs ($5 or so) by only having to
use one IDE cable. (Also, one cable is easier to route than two and can
result in better air-flow through the case. Not a good enough excuse to only
use one though) That being said, modern IDE controllers are quite capable of
running two disparate devices on the one channel to their full potential.
However, if you do a lot of copying from one to the other transfer times can
suffer as the controller has to split the data stream between two devices.
Having them on seperate controllers is the ideal.
How can I check to see if they share the one channel without openning
up the box in Win XP?

Go to control panel, system, hardware, device manager. Click the + sign next
to IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers. Right click the first one (primary) and click
properties. Go to the advanced tab and see if both boxes have entries in
them. If they do then you have two devices on that controller. Check
Secondary as well to see what it says. (While you're in 'properties' make
sure the 'use DMA if available' box is checked.)
Also, whats the difference between the blue and white IDE connectors
on the main board?

Colour? :-) Seriously, normally the primary IDE controller is the blue one
and (usually) the boot drive needs to be on this one.

HTH,
 
Yes. An IDE port will run only at the speed that the slowest device supports. If you have a CDROM drive that runs at 33 MB/sec you might not have a problem. If you have a relatively fast hard drive and the CDROM runs at 16 MB/sec, or even worse, in PIO mode, it will slow down your hard drive too much.
 
Mike said:
Yes. An IDE port will run only at the speed that the slowest device
supports. If you have a CDROM drive that runs at 33 MB/sec you might
not have a problem. If you have a relatively fast hard drive and the
CDROM runs at 16 MB/sec, or even worse, in PIO mode, it will slow
down your hard drive too much.

Bullshit Mike. Maybe in the early Pentium 1 days but not anymore.

Please get your facts straight before writing crap like this.
 
Mike Walsh said:
Yes. An IDE port will run only at the speed that the slowest device
supports. If you have a CDROM drive that runs at 33 MB/sec you might not
have a problem. If you have a relatively fast hard drive and the CDROM runs
at 16 MB/sec, or even worse, in PIO mode, it will slow down your hard drive
too much.

Maybe on some legacy systems, but not on anything made today :-)
 
~misfit~ said:
I prefer to have them on seperate controllers if there are only two IDE
devices. However a lot of PC builders cut costs ($5 or so) by only having to
use one IDE cable. (Also, one cable is easier to route than two and can
result in better air-flow through the case. Not a good enough excuse to only
use one though) That being said, modern IDE controllers are quite capable of
running two disparate devices on the one channel to their full potential.
However, if you do a lot of copying from one to the other transfer times can
suffer as the controller has to split the data stream between two devices.
Having them on seperate controllers is the ideal.

As far as I know this is untrue, copying from drive to drive should be the
same whether on the same cable or not. Ever done any test?

Lane
 
As far as I know this is untrue, copying from drive to drive should be the
same whether on the same cable or not. Ever done any test?

Drives on separate channels (controller 0 and controller 1) can be
accessed at the same time, where two drives on controller 0 (master
and slave) can not be accessed at the same time. It's a case of one
or the other. So in theory, it should be faster to copy from channel
to channel than form master to slave.






*´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> Ratz O. Fratzo
 
-= Ratz O. Fratzo =- said:
Drives on separate channels (controller 0 and controller 1) can be
accessed at the same time, where two drives on controller 0 (master
and slave) can not be accessed at the same time. It's a case of one
or the other. So in theory, it should be faster to copy from channel
to channel than form master to slave.

Something definitely worth checking into even just to find out how much
difference if true. I can't remember ever reading anything about it which is
strange since it should be something asked frequently. Note that SCSI cards
can have 8 (?) drives on the same card and cable with no loss as far as I
know of.

Lane
 
Lane said:
As far as I know this is untrue, copying from drive to drive should
be the same whether on the same cable or not. Ever done any test?

What part is untrue Lane? The part where I stated "modern IDE controllers
are quite capable of running two disparate devices on the one channel to
their full potential" or the part where I stated "However, if you do a lot
of copying from one to the other transfer times can suffer as the controller
has to split the data stream between two devices. Having them on seperate
controllers is the ideal."

LOL, they are, pretty much, contradictory statements. That being said
however, I believe, from personal experience, that copying from one device
to another is *slightly* faster if they are on seperate controllers.
 
Lane said:
Something definitely worth checking into even just to find out how
much difference if true. I can't remember ever reading anything about
it which is strange since it should be something asked frequently.
Note that SCSI cards can have 8 (?) drives

Up to 32 drives with Very Wide SCSI
on the same card and cable
with no loss as far as I know of.

I think you'll find there is a 'loss' with multiple SCSI drives on one
'channel' due to command queuing.

Quote:

"Command queuing is one of the strong points of SCSI and allows multiple
outstanding requests between devices on the bus. A maximum of 256 commands
on each LUN (Logical Unit Number) of a SCSI device can be queued."

From: http://www.acc.umu.se/~sagge/scsi_ide/
 
-= Ratz O. Fratzo =- said:
Drives on separate channels (controller 0 and controller 1) can be
accessed at the same time, where two drives on controller 0 (master
and slave) can not be accessed at the same time. It's a case of one
or the other. So in theory, it should be faster to copy from channel
to channel than from master to slave.

I believe this to be true to a point. If two devices are sharing a bus and
each device is capable of saturating that bus, then a slow-down will occur
if trying to access both devices to their fullest capabilities
simultaneously.

However, this isn't usually the case with optical devices as, even using two
on one controller, they are far from capable of saturating a modern IDE
interface (ATA66 or higher) and only really applies to HDDs. Most HDDs, even
if they are rated at ATA133, are incapable of saturating an ATA66 bus on
their own, other than for the milliseconds it takes to empty the drive's
on-board cache. However, two fast HDDs on one controller can result in
slow-downs if copying from one to the other or if both are being accessed
simultaneously at their fastest through-put. It is even concievable that a
fast HDD and a fast optical drive, both being utilised to their fullest (a
*very*, *very* rare occurance, once again cache related and lasting
milliseconds) could cause slow-downs on one controller.

What really irks me is the myth, continually perpetuated by people who can
sound credible, that puting a slow device and a fast device on the same
controller will reduce that controller to the lowest common denominator.

How many times a week do you see someone posting in one of the hardware
groups saying "Don't put your CD-ROM on the same cable as your HDD as it
will slow your HDD down."? Utter twaddle, and I get sick of refuting these
totally erronous statements. This hasn't been the case since around the dawn
of the 486 CPU era when PIO 1 (Programed Input/Output, version one) mode was
the bee's knees. These days, when virtually any drive/controller made this
century is capable of using DMA mode (Direct Memory Access, non-CPU
dependant), it matters not what goes where.

In the case of PCs (as opposed to servers), in 99.999% of the cases, it
doesn't matter in the slightest what drive goes where on what cable as the
situation where long, sustained full (device-capable) speed read/write
events occur is extremely rare. About the only time this occurs is when
copying large anounts of data from one HDD to another on the same channel.
(Note the 'HDD' part of that, optical devices, even two of them working
together, are incapable of saturating an ATA66 or better IDE channel) *And*
this only applies to straight copying, when encoding video or audio the
bottle-neck will always (in the forseeable fututre) be the processing time,
not the drive through-put.

The upshot of all this is, as long as your boot drive is master on channel 1
and your IDE controller is ATA66 or better, cable the drives however you
like.
 
~misfit~ said:
Lane Lewis wrote: snip

What part is untrue Lane? The part where I stated "modern IDE controllers
are quite capable of running two disparate devices on the one channel to
their full potential" or the part where I stated "However, if you do a lot
of copying from one to the other transfer times can suffer as the controller
has to split the data stream between two devices. Having them on seperate
controllers is the ideal."

LOL, they are, pretty much, contradictory statements. That being said
however, I believe, from personal experience, that copying from one device
to another is *slightly* faster if they are on seperate controllers.



I hope to do some test pretty soon and will report the findings, Checked
the web and storage review but could find little on it. Will check the
official ATA site also.

It's weird that if there would be a loss as almost all tower cases promote
it by putting hard drives at the bottom and cdrom's at the top which ensures
that they go on the same cable.

Will keep you informed.

Lane
 
Lane said:
I hope to do some test pretty soon and will report the findings,
Checked the web and storage review but could find little on it. Will
check the official ATA site also.

It's weird that if there would be a loss as almost all tower cases
promote it by putting hard drives at the bottom and cdrom's at the
top which ensures that they go on the same cable.

Will keep you informed.

Thanks Lane, I look forward to seiing the results.
 
It's weird that if there would be a loss as almost all tower cases promote
it by putting hard drives at the bottom and cdrom's at the top which ensures
that they go on the same cable.

They just don't care, it's easier/cheaper to put same-width bays
together



Dave
 
Well, I have a IBM NetVista tower, the hard drive is at the bottom, and the
5.25" bays are at the top, which insures that the CD drives will NOT be on the
same cable as the hard drive.
 
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