ICS problem

[Simon]

hi,
I have 2 NICs on one system and setup for ICS.
External port has DHCP client and got DCHP assinged address from company
network, but for PCs that connect to internal port did not get DCHP reply
when
doing DHCP request to ICS.
What could be wrong ?

Regards,
simon

 

[Herb Martin]

I have 2 NICs on one system and setup for ICS.

External port has DHCP client and got DCHP assinged address from company
network, but for PCs that connect to internal port did not get DCHP reply
when doing DHCP request to ICS.
What could be wrong ?

So ICS is configured to share the External NIC; the internal clients are on
the
same "wire" with the Internal ICS NIC and they are not receiving a DHCP
lease?

What separates the two machines? (Client and ICS?) A router or True Switch
would be a problem. (Not one of the misnamed 10/100 'switches' which are
just
fancy hubs or repeaters.)

What happens if you run IPConfig /all on the client?
What happens if you run IPConfig /renew on the client?

If these don't work....
What happens if you (temporarily) configure 192.168.0.250/24 on the client?

 

[Roland Hall]

Herb...

Could you please define the difference between a True Switch and misnamed
10/100 'switch' a.k.a. fancy hub/repeater?

I have 2 NICs on one system and setup for ICS.
External port has DHCP client and got DCHP assinged address from company
network, but for PCs that connect to internal port did not get DCHP reply
when doing DHCP request to ICS.
What could be wrong ?

So ICS is configured to share the External NIC; the internal clients are on
the
same "wire" with the Internal ICS NIC and they are not receiving a DHCP
lease?

What separates the two machines? (Client and ICS?) A router or True Switch
would be a problem. (Not one of the misnamed 10/100 'switches' which are
just
fancy hubs or repeaters.)

What happens if you run IPConfig /all on the client?
What happens if you run IPConfig /renew on the client?

If these don't work....
What happens if you (temporarily) configure 192.168.0.250/24 on the client?

 

[Herb Martin]

Could you please define the difference between a True Switch and misnamed

10/100 'switch' a.k.a. fancy hub/repeater?

Those 10/100 Mbps devices typically have "switch" written on the box.

Layer two and layer three switches are much more complex devices.

The 10/100 hubs are ONLY "switches" in the sense that they change (or
switch)
speeds -- they do not perform the packet by packet eletronic of switching
that
allows stations to communicate as if they had private bandwidth as do true
switches.

10/100 Mbps hubs are (eletronically) a "Pair of Hubs, connected by a
Bridge".
(really) -- complete with "routing table" and use of MAC addresses.

These devices DO sense the speed of the device (when plugged in) and
"switch" the
device over to the "10 Mbps" or the "100 Mbps" side depending on speed --
note
this "switching" is actually static (after the speed is choose.)

True switches make decisions for each and (typically) every packet to
connect only
those ports that are directly communicate, then disconnect and provide that
bandwidth
to another pair of stations (or more correctly ports.)

 

[Michael Johnston [MSFT]]

Just make sure they are connected to the same network as the internal NIC on the ICS box. You could test this by configuring a
static address on the client something in the 192.168.0.x network. Don't use 192.168.0.1 though as this is the IP of the internal ICS
nic. Then try pinging the 192.168.0.1 address. Do you get replies? If not, you've got a cabling or switch problem.

Thank you,
Mike Johnston
Microsoft Network Support
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[Roland Hall]

A switch to me is not a device that switches between 10mbps and 100mbps.

I have one of these in my SOHO:
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProd...=&Section_Id=201522&pcount=&Product_Id=136493

It states it has an "integrated, 4-port 10/100Base-T Ethernet switch."
You're saying that is not correct.
Wouldn't that constitute fraud? It doesn't say it switches between
10/100mbps. It says it has an integrated 10/100Base-T Ethernet switch. I'm
not sure if it will support all 3 switching modes, cut thru, fragment free
and store and forward. It also does not say if it does, that it will
perform that automatically based on first time deliverables being returned
back to a threshold, which sometimes can be admin controlled.

An interconnectivity device that offers 10/100, even if it autosenses and
offers HD and FD, to me is not a switch if that is all it does.

A switch will create a separate collision domain for each port, a shared hub
will not but let's be clear on one thing. A switch, even 'true' by your
definition or not, is still a hub. It is a switching hub which means it
switches to the port that needs it and it allows multiple ports, if not
targeted or originating from the same port, to connect at the same time. A
shared hub does not have these capabilities. A switch only floods to all
ports when it does not have a MAC in it's list whereas a shared hub floods
all ports at all times.

A smart hub is defined as a [shared] hub that is manageable.

If all it does is allow autosensing for 10/100, then you are correct, that
is not a switch. I have requested a technical specifications document on
this product from Belkin and I'll have see if they provide one before I can
accurately determine if this device is actually a switch or if it is
mislabeled.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/h/hub.html

Roland

 

[Herb Martin]

A switch to me is not a device that switches between 10mbps and 100mbps.

Then we agree.

I have one of these in my SOHO:
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProd...=&Section_Id=201522&pcount=&Product_Id=136493

It states it has an "integrated, 4-port 10/100Base-T Ethernet switch."
You're saying that is not correct.

That is almost certainly the case (that it is not correct.)

Wouldn't that constitute fraud?

Probably not, since it "switches" and this has become common practice in the
hub industry.

It doesn't say it switches between
10/100mbps. It says it has an integrated 10/100Base-T Ethernet switch. I'm
not sure if it will support all 3 switching modes, cut thru, fragment free
and store and forward.

I doubt that it supports ANY of them, unless we call it's bridging feature
"store
and forward" (for which a technical argument can be made.

BUT, it is highly unlikely that this is a true switch as opposed to a
traditional
BRIDGE.

A switch will create a separate collision domain for each port, a shared

hub

So will a bridge.

will not but let's be clear on one thing. A switch, even 'true' by your
definition or not, is still a hub. It is a switching hub which means it
switches to the port that needs it and it allows multiple ports, if not
targeted or originating from the same port, to connect at the same time. A
shared hub does not have these capabilities. A switch only floods to all
ports when it does not have a MAC in it's list whereas a shared hub floods
all ports at all times.

Part of the problem is that what I am calling a "true switch" is in fact
(always)
a hybrid device. Some combination of a hub (in the central sense), a bridge
and or a router but with actual backplane connectivity, a feature not on a
traditional bridge.

What most experienced network engineers (me too) call a "hub" is properly
termed a "multiport repeater" -- no experience engineers that I know will
refer to a TRUE switch as a hub or a 10/100 Mbps multiport repeater as
a switch.

If all it does is allow autosensing for 10/100, then you are correct, that
is not a switch. I have requested a technical specifications document on
this product from Belkin and I'll have see if they provide one before I can
accurately determine if this device is actually a switch or if it is
mislabeled.

Chances are you will find it is actually (electronically) a PAIR of
multiport
repeaters separated by a traditional bridge, with the 10/100 sensing feature
to select the proper hub (multiport repeater).

 

[Roland Hall]

Then we agree.

On that part, yes.

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProd...=&Section_Id=201522&pcount=&Product_Id=136493

That is almost certainly the case (that it is not correct.)

Actually, your statement is not correct. You have not shown evidence that
it is not an Ethernet switch.
I got an email from Belkin stating they supported layer-2 switching.

Probably not, since it "switches" and this has become common practice in the
hub industry.

Oral sex is not sexual relations because Slick Willy said so and the
Demon-crats wouldn't kick him out of office?

I doubt that it supports ANY of them, unless we call it's bridging feature
"store
and forward" (for which a technical argument can be made.

Which is? Store and forward is one method supported by shared and switched
hubs.

BUT, it is highly unlikely that this is a true switch as opposed to a
traditional
BRIDGE.

Now it's a bridge, sorry traditional bridge?

hub

So will a bridge.

Original bridges couldn't perform frame processing (lookup etc) at
"wire-speed" ("mediarate"), e.g. rapid succession of minimum-length frames.
Newer bridges could, so marketers wanted a new name. Switches perform
high-speed lookups, so wire-speed bridges were called "switches".

Part of the problem is that what I am calling a "true switch" is in fact
(always)
a hybrid device. Some combination of a hub (in the central sense), a bridge
and or a router but with actual backplane connectivity, a feature not on a
traditional bridge.

see previous

What most experienced network engineers (me too) call a "hub" is properly
termed a "multiport repeater" -- no experience engineers that I know will
refer to a TRUE switch as a hub or a 10/100 Mbps multiport repeater as
a switch.

BS. A shared hub is a multiport repeater, so is a bridge and so is a
switch.

Chances are you will find it is actually (electronically) a PAIR of
multiport
repeaters separated by a traditional bridge, with the 10/100 sensing feature
to select the proper hub (multiport repeater).

Multiport repeater is vague and applies to numerous interconnectivity
devices. A switch is a wire-speed (mediarate) bridge. So it's a switch
unless 'traditional bridge' means unable to perform frame processing at
"wire-speed."

MAC - Media Access Controller
MAC - Apple computer
MAC - sammich

They're all MACs but they're not exactly the same thing. (O:=

--
Roland

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