I am so sick of external NTFS formatted disk drives (help forunmounting)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cary
  • Start date Start date
C

Cary

For the third time in my life (on multiple machines), I've had
NTFS formatted disk drives lose all their data, simply from
plugging and unplugging them into a PC.

Can someone tell me what on earth is going on to make them lose
their data - and - more importantly - how best to prevent the
hellacious recovery process (yes, I'm all too familiar with
Photorec and Recuva).

I *think* the hot-swapping is what is causing the problems, so,
I ask whether freeware exists to make pulling out an external
USB cable safer?
 
From: "Cary said:
For the third time in my life (on multiple machines), I've had
NTFS formatted disk drives lose all their data, simply from
plugging and unplugging them into a PC.

Can someone tell me what on earth is going on to make them lose
their data - and - more importantly - how best to prevent the
hellacious recovery process (yes, I'm all too familiar with
Photorec and Recuva).

I *think* the hot-swapping is what is causing the problems, so,
I ask whether freeware exists to make pulling out an external
USB cable safer?
Click to expand...


You *MUST* click on "Safely Remove Hardware" in the System Tray and remove that external
read/write media.

When you write to removeable storage the data is cached. If you just remove the drive
without first going to "Safely Remove Hardware" and choosing that drive, then data in the
cache hasn't been flused to the disk and you'll lose data.

You don't want, or need, 3rd party Freeware. The construct is built into the OS. It is
up to YOU to use it ! You aren't and that's why you are losing data.
 
You *MUST* click on "Safely Remove Hardware" in the System Tray and remove that external
read/write media.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but it is a pig sometimes. I use

*AVERT EYES NOT FREEWARE*

http://safelyremove.com/blog/en/usbsafelyremove-5-2-final

to help get a handle on what's going on.

Much cheaper that dealing with a corrupted drive.
When you write to removeable storage the data is cached. If you just remove the drive
without first going to "Safely Remove Hardware" and choosing that drive, then data in the
cache hasn't been flused to the disk and you'll lose data.

You don't want, or need, 3rd party Freeware. The construct is built into the OS. It is
up to YOU to use it ! You aren't and that's why you are losing data.
Click to expand...

The OP should try running chkdsk on the drive before writing it off.

--
p-0.0-h the cat

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Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
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the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot.

Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.
 
The OP should try running chkdsk on the drive before writing it off.
Click to expand...

Oh! and plugging a duff USB drive into a Linux machine will quite often
give you access to your files. Good old Linux. Recommended by Bear
Bottoms. It's the future.

--
p-0.0-h the cat

Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot.

Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.
 
David H. Lipman posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:34:22 -0400

You *MUST* click on "Safely Remove Hardware" in the System Tray and remove that external
read/write media.

When you write to removeable storage the data is cached. If you just remove the drive
without first going to "Safely Remove Hardware" and choosing that drive, then data in the
cache hasn't been flused to the disk and you'll lose data.

You don't want, or need, 3rd party Freeware. The construct is built into the OS. It is
up to YOU to use it ! You aren't and that's why you are losing data.
Click to expand...

but is not NTFS since Vista a transactional file system ?
whould not be it at the worst the disk content is some seconds obsolete ?
Eventually to perform some rollback according to $Logfile ?

Cannot it by rather hardware issue than NTFS issue ?

BTW, AFAIK there is possibility to dsable caching
to set USB device for fast removal,
if performance drop does not matter.
 
Poutnik posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:26:24 +0200

David H. Lipman posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:34:22 -0400


but is not NTFS since Vista a transactional file system ?
whould not be it at the worst the disk content is some seconds obsolete ?
Eventually to perform some rollback according to $Logfile ?

Cannot it by rather hardware issue than NTFS issue ?

BTW, AFAIK there is possibility to dsable caching
to set USB device for fast removal,
if performance drop does not matter.
Click to expand...

Hm, I revise my opinion. Perhaps even if caching is disabled,
configured for fast removal, I am afraid is tailored rather
to flash devices than mechanical disks.

I am not sure if HW design of USB classical disks
take into account a sudden power outage due diconnection
( if USB powered )

but, i am not hardware expert.
 
David H. Lipman posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:34:22 -0400



but is not NTFS since Vista a transactional file system ?
Click to expand...

Is it transactional on XP SP3?
whould not be it at the worst the disk content is some seconds obsolete ?
Eventually to perform some rollback according to $Logfile ?

Cannot it by rather hardware issue than NTFS issue ?

BTW, AFAIK there is possibility to dsable caching
to set USB device for fast removal,
if performance drop does not matter.
Click to expand...

Yes, good point, that is supposed to stop corruption due to caching.
Strangely the disable caching option is greyed out on my Vista machine,
but not on my Win7. Another mystery to resolve. Regardless, the Safely
remove thingy still warns about processes with locked files on the
device.

--
p-0.0-h the cat

Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot.

Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.
 
Poutnik posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:47:17 +0200


Hm, I revise my opinion. Perhaps even if caching is disabled,
configured for fast removal, I am afraid is tailored rather
to flash devices than mechanical disks.

I am not sure if HW design of USB classical disks
take into account a sudden power outage due diconnection
( if USB powered )
Click to expand...
P.S.>
I mean what happen if USB power goes down
in the middle of disk reading ?

Is it harmless to disk or not ?
does it have enoug reserve e.g. in capacitors
to at least park the head before transport ?

If I were a designer, I would do it so,
but is it reality ?
 
p-0''0-h the cat (ES) posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 12:52:19 +0100
Is it transactional on XP SP3?
Click to expand...

AFAIK it is not, but I am not sure if not back ported...
I may have missed mentioning XP.
Yes, good point, that is supposed to stop corruption due to caching.
Strangely the disable caching option is greyed out on my Vista machine,
but not on my Win7. Another mystery to resolve. Regardless, the Safely
remove thingy still warns about processes with locked files on the
device.
Click to expand...

It could be matter of particular OS instance config and mainly the
device. On my vista64 Permium it is not greyed out.

Note that there is several level of caching, allowing
OS and disk write caching, and also some workarounds of caching logic,
like ignoring some kinds of excessive cache flushing.
 
p-0''0-h the cat (ES) posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 12:52:19 +0100


AFAIK it is not, but I am not sure if not back ported...
I may have missed mentioning XP.

It could be matter of particular OS instance config and mainly the
device. On my vista64 Permium it is not greyed out.

Note that there is several level of caching, allowing
OS and disk write caching, and also some workarounds of caching logic,
like ignoring some kinds of excessive cache flushing.
Click to expand...

I can only say that for many years I have been religiously using Safely
Remove and I can't remember having a corruption problem. Before that I
was naughty and I paid for it with drive issues. It does take a while to
wean yourself off the bad habit of just yanking the USB cable out...
especially if you're a cat.

On my Vista machine I do get issues with the "System Volume Information"
directory growing to an enormous size. Never figured out exactly why. I
found I could delete the contents using a Linux VM, which has worked for
me on several occasions. Good old Linux. Recommended by Bear Bottoms.
It's the future.

--
p-0.0-h the cat

Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot.

Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.
 
p-0''0-h the cat (ES) posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:14:09 +0100
I can only say that for many years I have been religiously using Safely
Remove and I can't remember having a corruption problem. Before that I
was naughty and I paid for it with drive issues. It does take a while to
wean yourself off the bad habit of just yanking the USB cable out...
especially if you're a cat.
Click to expand...

i see. I do always safe remove as well.
Almost always, as it happen I would like but I cannot.

sometimes it happens i close all applications
but the OS still claims the device is in use.

It could probably help to kill/restart explorer.exe,
or re-login
or reboot,

but I usually loose my nerves and pull out the plug :-)
On my Vista machine I do get issues with the "System Volume Information"
directory growing to an enormous size. Never figured out exactly why. I
Click to expand...

It is related probably to creation system restore point.
If you time by time switch system restore off/on, it gets wipe out.
It is good to do at the point when everything go well.
 
p-0''0-h the cat (ES) posted Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:14:09 +0100
Click to expand...
but I usually loose my nerves and pull out the plug :-)
Click to expand...

I try not to do this but sometimes impatience gets the better of me :)
It is related probably to creation system restore point.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is related to this, and the backup application.
If you time by time switch system restore off/on, it gets wipe out.
Click to expand...

Yes, but this doesn't solve it in this particular case. The files aren't
deleted, and whatever I try on Windows nada. Linux just doesn't care.
It is good to do at the point when everything go well.
Click to expand...

--
p-0.0-h the cat

Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot.

Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.
 
You *MUST* click on "Safely Remove Hardware" in the System Tray and remove that external
read/write media.

When you write to removeable storage the data is cached. If you just remove the drive
without first going to "Safely Remove Hardware" and choosing that drive, then data in the
cache hasn't been flused to the disk and you'll lose data.

You don't want, or need, 3rd party Freeware. The construct is built into the OS. It is
up to YOU to use it ! You aren't and that's why you are losing data.
Click to expand...



Correct. I always "safely disconnect" and have never ever lost data.


I have done data recoveries for a number of people though and in a few
cases it was simply a case of the partition type being listed as "unknown".

I used a partition editing utility to re-label the disk as NTFS &
all was OK
 
I can only say that for many years I have been religiously using Safely
Remove and I can't remember having a corruption problem. Before that I
was naughty and I paid for it with drive issues. It does take a while to
wean yourself off the bad habit of just yanking the USB cable out...
especially if you're a cat.

On my Vista machine I do get issues with the "System Volume Information"
directory growing to an enormous size. Never figured out exactly why.
Click to expand...

Disk cleanup (cleanmgr.exe)...more options...cleanup shadow copies
will get rid of most of it. Deletes all but the last restore point.

I
 
Disk cleanup (cleanmgr.exe)...more options...cleanup shadow copies
will get rid of most of it. Deletes all but the last restore point.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks, tried that. Not in this case though. I even tried
reformatting the USB disk, but the problem just keeps coming back like a
bad penny. Since I discovered I can just plug it into a Linux VM on my
Win 7 machine and delete the contents of that directory it's just a mild
irritation every so often. C'est la vie.
I
Click to expand...

--
p-0.0-h the cat

Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot.

Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.
 
JoeWillis presented the following explanation :
I right click on usb drive letters and select 'eject'. Works.
Click to expand...

When that does not work, try using one of the Unlocker utilities
(Unlocker, Who Locked Me!) using the right click method.
 
For the third time in my life (on multiple machines), I've had
NTFS formatted disk drives lose all their data, simply from
plugging and unplugging them into a PC.

Can someone tell me what on earth is going on to make them lose
their data - and - more importantly - how best to prevent the
hellacious recovery process (yes, I'm all too familiar with
Photorec and Recuva).

I *think* the hot-swapping is what is causing the problems, so,
I ask whether freeware exists to make pulling out an external
USB cable safer?
Click to expand...

As others have written, following the proper procedure is critical i.e.
telling the OS to make the drive safe for removal. If your computer is not
cooperating there is always the ultra-safe option of simply shutting the
computer down (not telling it to sleep or hibernate but truly shutting it
down), disconnecting the drive, and then restarting. Personally, I've never
had any difficulty with lost data from disconnecting an external drive but
I'm always meticulous about following the recommended procedure.
 
Agreed, but it is a pig sometimes. I use

*AVERT EYES NOT FREEWARE*

http://safelyremove.com/blog/en/usbsafelyremove-5-2-final

to help get a handle on what's going on.

Much cheaper that dealing with a corrupted drive.
Click to expand...

I find Uwe Sieber's "remove drive" quite useful. For those that dont
mind the use of the command line, it offers a (IME) safe way to remove
a removable drive from a M$ Windows system. As it is a command line
program, a batch file can be created to eject several drives at once if
desired.

http://www.uwe-sieber.de/drivetools_e.html
 
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