HP inkjet with high capacity black

[John Doe]

Is there any HP inkjet that still uses the 51645A,
equivalent, or similarly high capacity black cartridge?

My aging 820 has starting to have problems picking
paper, and with special thanks to M$, it can't do double
sided printing from W2K.

I don't print photos, or much in color aside from
maps from mapquest.com, so as long as the color
quality is no worse than the 820s, it should be OK.

 

[Bob Headrick]

Is there any HP inkjet that still uses the 51645A,
equivalent, or similarly high capacity black cartridge?

The DeskJet 995, DeskJet 6127, DeskJet 6122 and DeskJet 9300 all use the high
capacity #45 cartridge. The Business Inkjet 1200 series printer ($199) has
individual ink tanks, with the black tank about 50% larger than the #45
cartridge. All these printers will have similar black print quality and much
better color quality than your current DeskJet 820. Additionally the speed of
all these printers will be considerably faster. See
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/18972-236251-236261.html for
links to these printers.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Bloggy]

My aging 820 has starting to have problems picking paper,

Rub the pick-up rollers with sandpaper, or similar abrasive.
Do it **gently** and cover the entire surface of each roller.

Works wonders ...


Bloggy

 

[John Doe]

Thanks for your reply. After perusing that link for a while,
I noticed that now there are some new black cartridges,
56 & 94/96 with 16 and 15 pl drops, respectively, vs.
33 pl for the venerable 45. Is there any significant difference
between these blacks other than the drop size and the
volume of ink in the various cartridges? Speaking of
volume, is any of the new blacks come in a cartridge with
more than 21 ml of ink?

How does the "Vivera" inkset differs from the ones used in the
23 and 78 cartridges? Lightfastness, waterfastness, color gamut,
or it's mostly just a marketing ploy to diferentiate from the others
with "noname" inks? I read a page there
http://h30015.www3.hp.com/hp_sop/photo_printing/ink_layering.asp
HP boasting their 8 ink printing (which most everyone, occasionally
including HP call colors), but the colorspace is still KCMY. And
one can even argue whether black and grays are colors or not. ;-)

About the 1200 series, are they the descendent of the Rogue?
What type of inks are used in them? Are they like what's
in the 45 and the 78?

TIA

 

[Bob Headrick]

Thanks for your reply. After perusing that link for a while,
I noticed that now there are some new black cartridges,
56 & 94/96 with 16 and 15 pl drops, respectively, vs.
33 pl for the venerable 45. Is there any significant difference
between these blacks other than the drop size and the
volume of ink in the various cartridges?

The 94/96 cartridges have somewhat blacker blacks then the others. The 96
cartridge has a 9/16" swath which is more comparable to the 1/2" swath of the
#45 cartridges. The 56 and 94 cartridges have a smaller swath (0.4"?). The
larger swath gives improved speed.

Speaking of volume, is any of the new blacks come
in a cartridge with more than 21 ml of ink?

The Business Inkjet 1200 has 69mL black cartridges.

How does the "Vivera" inkset differs from the ones used in the
23 and 78 cartridges? Lightfastness, waterfastness, color gamut,
or it's mostly just a marketing ploy to differentiate from the others
with "noname" inks?

The main improvement is in lightfastness, especially in 3 ink printing.
Wilhelm (http://www.wilhelm-research.com/) rates the Vivera inks at 82 years in
3 ink mode vs. 18 years for the ink used in the 78 cartridge and perhaps half
that for the ink used in the 23 cartridge. The color gamut is improved in the
Vivera inks as well. Waterfastness is similar. Both waterfastness and
lightfastness are heavily influenced by the paper. Unfortunately paper
excellent for one is generally only fair for the other.

I read a page there
http://h30015.www3.hp.com/hp_sop/photo_printing/ink_layering.asp
HP boasting their 8 ink printing (which most everyone, occasionally
including HP call colors), but the colorspace is still KCMY. And
one can even argue whether black and grays are colors or not. ;-)

Well, the 8 ink printing has Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Light Cyan, Light Magenta,
Photo Black, Medium Gray and Light Gray, AKA CMYcmZgG. The printer expects RGB
data and does the proper rendering internally. As it turns out most of the
composition of a typical photo is actually in the gray levels. When the gray
cartridge was proposed I must confess I was not a big supporter, but in side by
side comparisons it does provide noticeably improved details.

About the 1200 series, are they the descendent of the Rogue?
Yes.

What type of inks are used in them? Are they like what's
in the 45 and the 78?

I do not know that much about the inks used in the separate printhead versions.
The black ink is darker than that used in the 45 cartridge.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[John Doe]

The Business Inkjet 1200 has 69mL black cartridges.

I know that those ink only cartridges are are all relatively high
volume. (didn't know the exact #, though) What I meant to ask
whether there is a high volume (say, >30 ml) black cartridge with
a 15/16 pl drop size and a built in printhead like the venerable 45.
I know that the spring bag can hold quite a bit of ink.

Waterfastness is similar. Both waterfastness and
lightfastness are heavily influenced by the paper. Unfortunately paper
excellent for one is generally only fair for the other.

Is there any coating that can be put on a printout without any
degradation or adverse effect to protect it from water and
sweaty hands? If I remember right, Canon had (or have) a
printer that actually did that.

As it turns out most of the composition of a typical photo
is actually in the gray levels. When the gray cartridge was
proposed I must confess I was not a big supporter, but in
side by side comparisons it does provide noticeably improved
details.

Yes indeed. As for the number of inks, do you see any further
expansion? I can't imagine many more shades within the current
colors (yellow is light as-is), but I think in professional printing
there's also violet and orange inks.

TIA

 

[Bob Headrick]

What I meant to ask
whether there is a high volume (say, >30 ml) black cartridge with
a 15/16 pl drop size and a built in printhead like the venerable 45.

The #45 cartridge is large but has a larger drop size. There have not been any
spring bag print cartridges developed that use the lower dropweight printheads
used in the #56, #94 or #96 cartridges.

If the real question you are asking is "is there a black print cartridge with
a 15 or 16 pL drop size that will give an equivalent page yield as the
venerable HP #45 cartridge?" the answer would be yes. The #96 cartridge,
although rated at 21mL of ink, is rated at 800 pages per cartridge in the
DeskJet 6540 printer. This compares favorably with the 833 page yield of the
larger #45 cartridge. Improvements in the writing system efficiency were
brought about by changes in drop size and improvements in the darkness of the
black ink.

Is there any coating that can be put on a printout without any
degradation or adverse effect to protect it from water and
sweaty hands? If I remember right, Canon had (or have) a
printer that actually did that.

What kind of printing do you want to do? The pigmented black ink HP uses for
text is pretty smudge resistant once it dries. For photo printing,
waterfastness is as much as function of the paper as the inks. Unfortunately
the most lightfast papers are not so waterfast and vice versa. You could also
spray a protective coating, but I do not have particular experience there.
Personally I have not found photo prints made on an inkjet to be particularly
fragile.

Yes indeed. As for the number of inks, do you see any further
expansion? I can't imagine many more shades within the current
colors (yellow is light as-is), but I think in professional printing
there's also violet and orange inks.

Stay tuned for announcements at the PMA expo coming up toward the end of this
month http://pma2005.pmai.org/ .

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[John Doe]

If the real question you are asking is "is there a black print cartridge with
a 15 or 16 pL drop size that will give an equivalent page yield as the
venerable HP #45 cartridge?" the answer would be yes. The #96 cartridge,
although rated at 21mL of ink, is rated at 800 pages per cartridge in the
DeskJet 6540 printer. This compares favorably with the 833 page yield of the
larger #45 cartridge.

OK, that's good to know, assuming the coverage was the same.
I guess the "side effect" of this is no more soaked paper when printing
large black areas.

What kind of printing do you want to do?

I mostly do black text (source code) with some webpages thrown in,
but girlfriend just filled up a 512 mb CF card 3 times (!!) during a few
days in Hawaii, so I do expect some photo printing in the near future,
unless we can get those printed out for a reasonable price somewhere
else. She does have a reasonably recent Deskjet (much newer than
my 820) she bought for around $100 without consulting with me first,
so of course it has small cartridges. :-(

For myself, I'm leaning toward a 1200dn, but I might get a more photo
oriented printer both of us could use, or maybe one solely for photos
and one for everything else. I just need to get acquinted with the pros
and cons of the currently available inkjet printers.