HOWTO: Multiple Boot?

[Steve]

Hi out there...

Just figured out how to set up a "multiple boot"... sounded tough but was
super-easy... and I can now power-up and get a "menu choice" to boot to
WinXP on drive 1... or WinXP on drive 2. But now I have the problem of...
BOTH drives can be seen from either boot choice... I want to only see ONE
drive... and it be designated as C:. Is there any way to do this???

For those who might care... I've been developing a VB6 app on one hard drive
and then physically removing drive 1 and replacing it with a "virgin
install" drive 2. WHY's are:

1. I'm using several .DLLs/.OCXs which are NOT normally installed on
a "user" PC and I want my installation tests to work if I miss a file when
building the install CD... With my current Multi-boot scenario... tho
installing the CD on Drive 2; Drive 1 is still there... so the App still
works by using files off Drive 1.

2. The installation insists on going back to C: (Drive 1)... tho I'm
installing on Drive 2)... so some of my files are being re-written when I
don't want them to.

3. I'm tired of swapping hard drives... my wife's tired of looking at
a PC with an open side... and I don't have the room for a second PC setup.

Sure hope someone has a solution...

Thanks in advance!!
Steve

 

[John John]

Use a third party boot manager or toggle the drives on/off and boot
order in the BIOS. If you want the installation to be on drive "C:"
then you have to take proper steps when doing the installation to ensure
that you install Windows on the first active partition that the setup
program enumerates, with multiple disks a foolproof method is to unplug
or disable all but the disk that you want Windows on while you do the
installation. If Windows was installed on a drive other than C: the
only way to change that is by reinstalling Windows. By the way,
probably none of my business, but if you use system variables in your
scripts or applications the drive letter on which Windows is installed
on won't or shouldn't matter.

John

 

[Timothy Daniels]

There are various ways to "remove" a HD from a system.
Some BIOSes allow you to "disable" some HDs, but I've never
had a machine with such a BIOS. There are also 3rd-party
boot managers which allow you to "hide" partitions. That
can get tricky if the utility happens to reside in a partition that
you've just "hid". :-( Another way is to use a "drive caddy"
or "mobile rack" that contains the HD with the OS you desire.
Kingwin makes such "mobile racks" that take a 5 1/2"
expansion bay, and the set of rack and tray runs about $22-$25,
depending on retailer. Extra trays run about $15-$20. Here
is Kingwin's line of mobile racks:
http://kingwin.com/mobileracks.asp .
I have the KF-101-1PF with the cooling fan in the bottom of
the tray. The setup works well, and the HD is kept at what
feels like room temp. You can search Nextag.com and
PriceGrabber.com for the latest prices using the model no. as
the search term.

Another way to "disappear" a HD is to deny it power. I have
micro toggle switches mounted in ventillation holes in the
front of my PC, under the plastic facia, and before startup,
I reach in with a paper clip and switch on the power for the
HD that I want. The barrels of the DPST switches are 1/4"
OD, and they fit perfectly in the ventillation holes, so no grinding
or cutting was necessary. The only caveat is that the IDE
controllers don't like empty end connectors on the IDE cable,
so either put another device at the end connector or put each
HD at the end connector of a dedicated cable. (Expansion
PCI IDE controller cards give you more freedom of
configuration for doing this.)

But I suspect that all you really need is for each OS to boot
up with its own partition named "C:". You probably installed
the 2nd WinXP with the 1st WinXP visible to the installer, and
the installer named the 2nd WinXP's partition "D:". There is a
way to re-name a partition by going into the Registry, but I'm
too timid to do that. The most straight-forward way to
accomplish what you want is to install the 2nd WinXP on the
2nd HD while the 1st HD is disconnected. (The connected
HD will have boot priority, so no adjustment of jumpers or
BIOS is necessary.) The 2nd OS, when running, will call its
own partition "C:".

Then re-connect the 1st HD, and boot the system. The 1st
HD (assuming that it has boot priority), will boot its OS.
Then edit its boot.ini file at C:\boot.ini using Notepad.
Under the line "[operating systems]", add another line that
is identical to the 1st line there, but with "rdisk(0)" changed
to "rdisk(1)". You can also change the character string between
the quotes to indicate that it's for the 2nd OS. You can set
the timeout value to something like "10" to give you 10 seconds
to decide which OS to boot. That's all there is to making
the ntldr in the 1st HD a dual-boot manager.

Each WinXP, when it is running, will call its own partition "C:",
and it will call the other OS's partition by some other letter
designation, usually "D:". This will not matter at all as long as
there are no shortcuts in one partition which refer to files in
another partition. If a shortcut in the partition of the running
OS refers to "C:", it will refer to the local partition - which
is OK.

If you don't want to edit the boot.ini file, you can switch between
HDs by entering the BIOS at startup and changeing the boot order
of the HDs. In my Dell machine, the BIOS has a "Hard Drive
Boot Order" which is a prioritized list of the connected HDs. The
HD at the head of the list gets control at boot time. That is, it
becomes known as "rdisk(0)" to ntldr. The next HD in the list
becomes "rdisk(1)", etc. Other BIOSes just allow setting which
HD is "enabled" for boot control. Check you user manual to
learn how to enter and navigate through your BIOS.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Anteaus]

The other option is a virtual machine. This is often a handier way of testing
code, since you can roll the whole thing back to Square One after each
install of you app, making sure your installer works properly, and isn't for
example relying on DLLs which are remnants of a previous install.

There are several options; MS Virtual PC, VMWare, and Virtualbox spring to
mind. Most are free for private use, though you need to license the OS
itself.

 

[Andy]

You need to fix your application. Otherwise, people who dual boot will
suffer the same problem.

 

[Steve]

Hi guys...

Thanks to each of you for taking your valuable time to help!! I think it's
best if I respond to everyone in a single message...

1. PC BIOS doesn't seem to be able to toggle disks

2. Original App developer was fired; App is hand-me-down... no conventions
followed... ie, it's coded to work from c:\R, c:\VBRS, etc. Changes piling
up and no time to re-code right now

3. I like the idea of "virtual machine"... will have to find some time to
figure that out... looks like a good long-term solution

4. TRIED one suggestion last night... hasn't worked yet. I re-installed XP
on each (2) drives connected one-at-a-time. Then connected both at same
time (using CS jumpers)... changed Drive 1 Boot.ini to add a line and change
"rdisk(1)". Rebooting works for Drive 1 but not for Drive 2... errors with
"Windows could not start because of a computer disk hardware configuration
problem... etc".

[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Development (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Client (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect

I'll play with this a little more today... maybe someone can see a
type/dummy in above

5. Shouldn't be anyone else's problem... since they will only be installing
a final CD; they won't be trying to use one PC for two purposes (development
& client)

Again... really appreciate everyone's comments... it's great to be able to
ask "dumb" questions and be able to expect serious possibilites!

Thanks!! Steve

 

[Timothy Daniels]

What do you mean by "rebooting"? Does that mean that
1) You changed the BIOS's Hard Drive Boot Order
and then re-started, or
2) You re-started and then selected the 2nd entry in the
boot menu derived from boot.ini, or
3) You used both of the above methods?

What you have set up is a dual-boot menu in one or
both boot.ini menus.
Were you trying to dual-boot using that menu or using
the BIOS? If you were trying to do no. 3) above, the
the 2nd selection would always reverse the 1st.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Steve]

Hi Tim...

What I meant was... restarting and selecting the 1st entry works; 2nd entry
gives me that error.

However, I have since started the PC and (it's a Dell) hit F12 (to change
the boot order)... one choice was "Boot from primary drive"; another was
"Boot from C:"... both go to Drive 1. Of course there were boot from CD,
floppy, etc choices.

I did notice a "curiosity"... going into the BIOS, seems first drive was
detected but second said "Off". What's really peculiar there is... booting
from drive 1 and going to My Computer shows BOTH drives. I don't know...
getting frustrating now

Steve

What do you mean by "rebooting"? Does that mean that
1) You changed the BIOS's Hard Drive Boot Order
and then re-started, or
2) You re-started and then selected the 2nd entry in the
boot menu derived from boot.ini, or
3) You used both of the above methods?

What you have set up is a dual-boot menu in one or
both boot.ini menus.
Were you trying to dual-boot using that menu or using
the BIOS? If you were trying to do no. 3) above, the
the 2nd selection would always reverse the 1st.

*TimDaniels*

[............]
4. TRIED one suggestion last night... hasn't worked yet. I re-installed
XP on each (2) drives connected one-at-a-time.
Then connected both at same time (using CS jumpers)... changed Drive 1
Boot.ini to add a line and change "rdisk(1)".
Rebooting works for Drive 1 but not for Drive 2... errors with "Windows
could not start because of a computer disk hardware
configuration problem... etc".

[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Development (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Client (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect

[..........]

Thanks!! Steve

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I don't know which Dell you have, but there are web-viewable
and downloadable User Manuals on Dell's website that I took
a peek at. The now-standard way to get into a desktop's BIOS
seems to be pressing F2, not Del. The BIOS menu for the XPS 710,
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps710/en/OM_EN/html/appendix.htm#wp1057811 ,
mentions a section called "Drives" in which the user can set HDs
On or Off. This may allow you to set your 2nd HD to "On".
There is mention of F12 allowing specification of the boot
*device*. It doesn't mention alternate HDs, only alternate
*devices*. You may be using the wrong procedure for setting
the BIOS's Hard Drive Boot Order. See if you can set HD 2
to "On" by going to "Drives" via F2.

Realize that you are experimenting with 2 methods of dual-booting -
the BIOS approach and the boot.ini menu approach. In using
the BIOS, one relies on the default OS entry in boot.ini or always
selecting the 1st "[operating systems]" entry from the boot.ini menu.
In using the boot.ini approach, one just selects between the
"[operating systems]" entries. Also remember that by setting the
boot.ini timeout to "20", 20 seconds will go by before ntldr
automatically selects the default entry.

*TimDaniels*

What I meant was... restarting and selecting the 1st entry works;
2nd entry gives me that error.

However, I have since started the PC and (it's a Dell) hit F12
(to change the boot order)... one choice was "Boot from primary drive";
another was "Boot from C:"... both go to Drive 1. Of course there
were boot from CD, floppy, etc choices.

I did notice a "curiosity"... going into the BIOS, seems first drive was
detected but second said "Off". What's really peculiar there is... booting
from drive 1 and going to My Computer shows BOTH drives. I don't know...
getting frustrating now

Steve

What do you mean by "rebooting"? Does that mean that
1) You changed the BIOS's Hard Drive Boot Order
and then re-started, or
2) You re-started and then selected the 2nd entry in the
boot menu derived from boot.ini, or
3) You used both of the above methods?

What you have set up is a dual-boot menu in one or
both boot.ini menus.
Were you trying to dual-boot using that menu or using
the BIOS? If you were trying to do no. 3) above, the
the 2nd selection would always reverse the 1st.

*TimDaniels*

[............]
4. TRIED one suggestion last night... hasn't worked yet. I re-installed XP
on each (2) drives connected one-at-a-time.
Then connected both at same time (using CS jumpers)... changed Drive 1
Boot.ini to add a line and change "rdisk(1)".
Rebooting works for Drive 1 but not for Drive 2... errors with "Windows
could not start because of a computer disk hardware
configuration problem... etc".

[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Development (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Client (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect

[..........]

Thanks!! Steve

 

[Steve]

Hi again Tim...

The Dell is a Dimension B110 and you're right about F2 and F12. However I'm
having a problem there... which may end up being the problem with my
multi-boot attempt.

The correct page (for the B110) is
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim1100/en/SM/syssetup.htm#wp1057208...
and, referencing the "Primary Slave Drive"... the BIOS will ONLY offer "OFF"
as a choice; "AUTO" never appears... although, the "Primary Master Drive"
will go to "OFF" and "AUTO". I've put a message out on the Dell BIOS Forums
to see if anyone knows a trick... or if there's a newer BIOS or something...
but no one's offered anything there yet.

In the meantime... I've used 5 different hard drives (as #2)... swapped #1
and #2... changed jumpers from CS to Master & Slave... and, no matter what,
the BIOS "Slave" always shows "OFF" only... yet when booting into WinXP BOTH
drives show up (in My Computer) and are usable. BTW... these are all IDE
(PATA now) drives... no SATA's.

And F12 options (for hard drives) only mentions "Primary Boot Device" and
"C: drive"... both are the same drive.

Thanks for your continued help... sorry to be taking so much of your time
but sure am hoping to get this puppy to go!
Steve

I don't know which Dell you have, but there are web-viewable
and downloadable User Manuals on Dell's website that I took
a peek at. The now-standard way to get into a desktop's BIOS
seems to be pressing F2, not Del. The BIOS menu for the XPS 710,
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps710/en/OM_EN/html/appendix.htm#wp1057811 ,
mentions a section called "Drives" in which the user can set HDs
On or Off. This may allow you to set your 2nd HD to "On".
There is mention of F12 allowing specification of the boot
*device*. It doesn't mention alternate HDs, only alternate
*devices*. You may be using the wrong procedure for setting
the BIOS's Hard Drive Boot Order. See if you can set HD 2
to "On" by going to "Drives" via F2.

Realize that you are experimenting with 2 methods of dual-booting -
the BIOS approach and the boot.ini menu approach. In using
the BIOS, one relies on the default OS entry in boot.ini or always
selecting the 1st "[operating systems]" entry from the boot.ini menu.
In using the boot.ini approach, one just selects between the
"[operating systems]" entries. Also remember that by setting the
boot.ini timeout to "20", 20 seconds will go by before ntldr
automatically selects the default entry.

*TimDaniels*

What I meant was... restarting and selecting the 1st entry works;
2nd entry gives me that error.

However, I have since started the PC and (it's a Dell) hit F12
(to change the boot order)... one choice was "Boot from primary drive";
another was "Boot from C:"... both go to Drive 1. Of course there
were boot from CD, floppy, etc choices.

I did notice a "curiosity"... going into the BIOS, seems first drive was
detected but second said "Off". What's really peculiar there is...
booting from drive 1 and going to My Computer shows BOTH drives. I don't
know... getting frustrating now

Steve

What do you mean by "rebooting"? Does that mean that
1) You changed the BIOS's Hard Drive Boot Order
and then re-started, or
2) You re-started and then selected the 2nd entry in the
boot menu derived from boot.ini, or
3) You used both of the above methods?

What you have set up is a dual-boot menu in one or
both boot.ini menus.
Were you trying to dual-boot using that menu or using
the BIOS? If you were trying to do no. 3) above, the
the 2nd selection would always reverse the 1st.

*TimDaniels*

:
[............]
4. TRIED one suggestion last night... hasn't worked yet. I
re-installed XP on each (2) drives connected one-at-a-time.
Then connected both at same time (using CS jumpers)... changed Drive 1
Boot.ini to add a line and change "rdisk(1)".
Rebooting works for Drive 1 but not for Drive 2... errors with "Windows
could not start because of a computer disk hardware
configuration problem... etc".

[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Development (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Client (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect

[..........]

Thanks!! Steve

 

[Steve]

Oh yeah... forgot to mention... also used 3 different IDE cables. Original
Dell cable was only 6" and single drive; so I switched to a 14"-18" dual
drive cable... no luck... so tried 2 more.

Steve

I don't know which Dell you have, but there are web-viewable
and downloadable User Manuals on Dell's website that I took
a peek at. The now-standard way to get into a desktop's BIOS
seems to be pressing F2, not Del. The BIOS menu for the XPS 710,
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps710/en/OM_EN/html/appendix.htm#wp1057811 ,
mentions a section called "Drives" in which the user can set HDs
On or Off. This may allow you to set your 2nd HD to "On".
There is mention of F12 allowing specification of the boot
*device*. It doesn't mention alternate HDs, only alternate
*devices*. You may be using the wrong procedure for setting
the BIOS's Hard Drive Boot Order. See if you can set HD 2
to "On" by going to "Drives" via F2.

Realize that you are experimenting with 2 methods of dual-booting -
the BIOS approach and the boot.ini menu approach. In using
the BIOS, one relies on the default OS entry in boot.ini or always
selecting the 1st "[operating systems]" entry from the boot.ini menu.
In using the boot.ini approach, one just selects between the
"[operating systems]" entries. Also remember that by setting the
boot.ini timeout to "20", 20 seconds will go by before ntldr
automatically selects the default entry.

*TimDaniels*

What I meant was... restarting and selecting the 1st entry works;
2nd entry gives me that error.

However, I have since started the PC and (it's a Dell) hit F12
(to change the boot order)... one choice was "Boot from primary drive";
another was "Boot from C:"... both go to Drive 1. Of course there
were boot from CD, floppy, etc choices.

I did notice a "curiosity"... going into the BIOS, seems first drive was
detected but second said "Off". What's really peculiar there is...
booting from drive 1 and going to My Computer shows BOTH drives. I don't
know... getting frustrating now

Steve

What do you mean by "rebooting"? Does that mean that
1) You changed the BIOS's Hard Drive Boot Order
and then re-started, or
2) You re-started and then selected the 2nd entry in the
boot menu derived from boot.ini, or
3) You used both of the above methods?

What you have set up is a dual-boot menu in one or
both boot.ini menus.
Were you trying to dual-boot using that menu or using
the BIOS? If you were trying to do no. 3) above, the
the 2nd selection would always reverse the 1st.

*TimDaniels*

:
[............]
4. TRIED one suggestion last night... hasn't worked yet. I
re-installed XP on each (2) drives connected one-at-a-time.
Then connected both at same time (using CS jumpers)... changed Drive 1
Boot.ini to add a line and change "rdisk(1)".
Rebooting works for Drive 1 but not for Drive 2... errors with "Windows
could not start because of a computer disk hardware
configuration problem... etc".

[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Development (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="RPC Client (XP)"
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect

[..........]

Thanks!! Steve

 

[Timothy Daniels]

The Dell is a Dimension B110 and you're right about F2 and F12.
However I'm having a problem there... which may end up being
the problem with my multi-boot attempt.

The correct page (for the B110) is
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim1100/en/SM/syssetup.htm#wp1057208...
and, referencing the "Primary Slave Drive"... the BIOS will ONLY offer "OFF"
as a choice; "AUTO" never appears... although, the "Primary Master Drive" will
go to "OFF" and "AUTO".

And this is contradicts the Drive Configuration section in the BIOS
description - which describes the Primary Slave Drive as having the
Off/Auto options, and the Primary Master Drive as having no options.
Can these entries in the Drive Configuration be rearranged at all?
I'm guessing that "Auto" just means that the BIOS will automatically
select the hard drive that will control booting, not whether it will be
seen by the system. So try setting the "Auto" option on the Slave
drive and see if selecting the 2nd (rdisk(1)) option in the boot.ini
menu boots the OS on the 2nd hard drive. On the next startup, try
setting the Master's option to "Off" in the theory that this will
remove it from consideration for booting and the 2nd hard drive
will become "rdisk(0)". Then select the 1st hard from the boot.ini
menu and see if the 2nd hard drive's OS again boots up.
Please post what happens.

By the way, my email and telephone conversations with BIOS
firmware engineers has convinced me that they are as close to
the metal as their craft is, and they don't know how to or care to
communicate with humans.

I've put a message out on the Dell BIOS Forums to see if anyone knows a
trick... or if there's a newer BIOS or
something... but no one's offered anything there yet.

Let us know if they come up with a solution.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Steve]

Timothy...

Problem solved!! Your comments made me search further on my "Primary
Slave=Off" issue and I found a (Dell Forum) post on clearing the NVRAM...
which resets the BIOS back to factory settings. Real weird set of
keystrokes tho... but the BIOS reset... Primary Slave Drive options were now
OFF and AUTO... I set to AUTO and the multi-boot worked like a champ!!

As an aside, I made a 3rd drive installing Vista Premium... put it on
IDE-2/Drive 1; CD on IDE-2/Drive 2... set BOOT.INI with a 3rd line
(RDISK=2)... but "tried" but just hung on a black screen. No biggie tho...
I'll give one more "cable seated check" tomorrow and... if it doesn't
work... I'm happy with "two XPs".

Thanks for putting up with me and keeping me pointed to the "right problem"!
Steve

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I'm glad to hear that you have had some success. Having
a corrupted BIOS is unusual - have you cleaned and/or
replaced the lithium battery? Just rubbing off the oxided
surface with an eraser or dry paper towel helps. Do the
same with the contacts if you can.

I assume that you put the 3rd HD on IDE channl 1 (they're
usually no'd "0" and "1"). I notice that the BIOS manual
doesn't list an Off/Auto option for the Master position on
the secondary channel, but it does list that option for the Slave
position. Try making the 3rd HD the Slave on that channel
instead of the Master, set the option to "Auto", and keep the
"rdisk(2)" parameter in the 3rd boot.ini menu option. If that
doesn't work, try changing the "rdisk()" argument to "3".

*TimDaniels*