How to unformat CD-RW to blank state?

[Russell May]

How can I unformat a 3-inch CD-RW disk to a blank (virgin) state?

I hope to unformat some disks so I can run diagnostic tests.
I do not want to recover data, file structure, or anything else.
I hope to make the disks appear never to have been formatted.
I do not want to buy new disks.

Problem symptoms:
I have a new Plextor PX-716A drive which will format, read, and write
to a 3-inch 24-minute CD-RW disk IF the disk has never been touched by
my Yamaha CRW-F1E drive. If the CRW-F1E has formatted, erased, or
written to the CD-RW disk, then the disk is completely unusable in the
PX-716A: "My Computer" is unresponsive and its drive/file view is
blank, until I manually eject the disk. No disk drives or anything
else appears in that part of the window.This happens only for 3-inch
CD-RW disks.

I use Windows XP Home SP2 and Nero InCD 4 version 4.3.20.1 software.
I do not use Mt Ranier format: Its InCD 4 Options checkbox is blank.

Russell May

 

[Rod Speed]

How can I unformat a 3-inch CD-RW disk to a blank (virgin) state?

You cant.

I hope to unformat some disks so I can run diagnostic tests.
I do not want to recover data, file structure, or anything else.
I hope to make the disks appear never to have been formatted.
I do not want to buy new disks.

There is no alternative.

Problem symptoms:
I have a new Plextor PX-716A drive which will format, read, and write
to a 3-inch 24-minute CD-RW disk IF the disk has never been touched by
my Yamaha CRW-F1E drive. If the CRW-F1E has formatted, erased, or
written to the CD-RW disk, then the disk is completely unusable in the
PX-716A: "My Computer" is unresponsive and its drive/file view is blank,
until I manually eject the disk. No disk drives or anything else appears in
that part of the window.This happens only for 3-inch CD-RW disks.

I use Windows XP Home SP2 and Nero InCD 4 version 4.3.20.1 software.
I do not use Mt Ranier format: Its InCD 4 Options checkbox is blank.

See what happens if you dont use InCD.

 

[Russell May]

You cant.


There is no alternative.

I have only a couple of unformatted 3-inch CD-RW disks, so I don't
want to let the CRW-F1E touch them until I determine what is causing
the problem. The minimum purchase for Plextor-recommended 3-inch CD-RW
disks is of 50 disks, which would be a lifetime supply for me.

I can buy a pack of five 3-inch CD-RW disks locally and inexpensively,
but they are Memorex brand which is not recommended by Plextor. That
is the type of 3-inch CD-RW disks which I have. The PX-716A could be
slightly incompatible with them despite being able to format, write,
and read them if they have not been touched by the CRW-F1E.

Several brands of 21-minute CD-RW disks are recommended by Plextor.
Only Ritek brand of 24-minute CD-RW disks is recommended by Plextor.
I have not found any vendor anywhere which sells them.

See what happens if you dont use InCD.

Which of these are you recommending?
1. Burn a formatted 3-inch CD-RW disk in the CRW-F1E as if the disk
were a CD-R, for example via Nero Burning ROM. See whether the disk is
usable by the PX-716A.
2. Uninstall InCD 4 and install the Roxio Drag-to-Disc packet writing
software. Format a 3-inch CD-RW disk with the CRW-F1E via the Roxio
Drag-to-Disc software. See whether the disk is usable by the PX-716A.
3. Something else. If so, what?

Today I will reformat and write a couple of 3-inch CD-RW disks on the
two CD drives on my computer at work using InCD 4, and see whether
they are usable by the PX-716A. That might help to determine whether
the problem is mainly from the PX-716A or the CRW-F1E.

 

[Rod Speed]

I have only a couple of unformatted 3-inch CD-RW disks, so I don't
want to let the CRW-F1E touch them until I determine what is causing
the problem. The minimum purchase for Plextor-recommended 3-inch
CD-RW disks is of 50 disks, which would be a lifetime supply for me.

Yes, there have always been real downsides with testing CD
burners when the problem isnt completely black and white.

I can buy a pack of five 3-inch CD-RW disks locally and inexpensively,
but they are Memorex brand which is not recommended by Plextor.
That is the type of 3-inch CD-RW disks which I have. The PX-716A
could be slightly incompatible with them despite being able to format,
write, and read them if they have not been touched by the CRW-F1E.

Several brands of 21-minute CD-RW disks are recommended by Plextor.
Only Ritek brand of 24-minute CD-RW disks is recommended by Plextor.
I have not found any vendor anywhere which sells them.

That doesnt alter the fact that there is no
way to get a CDRW back to the virgin state.

Which of these are you recommending?
1. Burn a formatted 3-inch CD-RW disk in the CRW-F1E
as if the disk were a CD-R, for example via Nero Burning
ROM. See whether the disk is usable by the PX-716A.

That will do fine.

2. Uninstall InCD 4 and install the Roxio Drag-to-Disc packet writing
software. Format a 3-inch CD-RW disk with the CRW-F1E via the Roxio
Drag-to-Disc software. See whether the disk is usable by the PX-716A.

I wouldnt go that route until 1 works fine.

3. Something else. If so, what?

Today I will reformat and write a couple of 3-inch CD-RW disks on the
two CD drives on my computer at work using InCD 4, and see whether
they are usable by the PX-716A. That might help to determine whether
the problem is mainly from the PX-716A or the CRW-F1E.

Yes, thats certainly worth trying if you still see the problem with Nero
itself. There are certainly some faults in a cd burner which only affect
the initial formatting of the virgin blank, tho they usually produce a
different symptom, failure to complete the initial format.

The main reason for seeing what happens without InCD
is that those packet writing systems are notorious for
having more problems than the other way of writing CDs.

 

[old jon]

How can I unformat a 3-inch CD-RW disk to a blank (virgin) state?

I hope to unformat some disks so I can run diagnostic tests.
I do not want to recover data, file structure, or anything else.
I hope to make the disks appear never to have been formatted.
I do not want to buy new disks.

Problem symptoms:
I have a new Plextor PX-716A drive which will format, read, and write
to a 3-inch 24-minute CD-RW disk IF the disk has never been touched by
my Yamaha CRW-F1E drive. If the CRW-F1E has formatted, erased, or
written to the CD-RW disk, then the disk is completely unusable in the
PX-716A: "My Computer" is unresponsive and its drive/file view is
blank, until I manually eject the disk. No disk drives or anything
else appears in that part of the window.This happens only for 3-inch
CD-RW disks.

I use Windows XP Home SP2 and Nero InCD 4 version 4.3.20.1 software.
I do not use Mt Ranier format: Its InCD 4 Options checkbox is blank.

Russell May

Why can`t you just Erase the CDRWs ?.

 

[Russell May]

Yes, there have always been real downsides with testing CD
burners when the problem isnt completely black and white.



That doesnt alter the fact that there is no
way to get a CDRW back to the virgin state.



That will do fine.


I wouldnt go that route until 1 works fine.



Yes, thats certainly worth trying if you still see the problem with Nero
itself. There are certainly some faults in a cd burner which only affect
the initial formatting of the virgin blank, tho they usually produce a
different symptom, failure to complete the initial format.

The main reason for seeing what happens without InCD
is that those packet writing systems are notorious for
having more problems than the other way of writing CDs.

I tried your first suggestion. No go. Then I erased a disk with the
CRW-F1E and tried to write to it with Nero Burning ROM. No go.
I uninstalled InCD and tried that again. No go. The 3-inch CD-RW disks
formatted and written at work can be read by the PX-716A and sometimes
written by it, but unreliably. Nothing works. Everything eventually
results in the disk being marked as read-only, or a data I/O error;
usually followed by the disk not being recognizable, sometimes by
either drive. Nothing works.

I am now pretty much convinced the Memorex 3-inch CD-RW disks are
simply incompatible with my Plextor PX-716A. That's disappointing but
it is not a big problem because I can use them in the Yamaha CRW-F1E,
as I have done for 2-3 years. I discovered the problem when I tried to
use a 3-inch CD-RW in both drives. I just can't do that.

Russell May

 

[Rod Speed]

I tried your first suggestion. No go. Then I erased a disk with the
CRW-F1E and tried to write to it with Nero Burning ROM. No go.
I uninstalled InCD and tried that again. No go. The 3-inch CD-RW disks
formatted and written at work can be read by the PX-716A and sometimes
written by it, but unreliably. Nothing works. Everything eventually
results in the disk being marked as read-only, or a data I/O error;
usually followed by the disk not being recognizable, sometimes by
either drive. Nothing works.

I am now pretty much convinced the Memorex 3-inch CD-RW
disks are simply incompatible with my Plextor PX-716A.

It cant be that.

 

[Russell May]

It cant be that.

When the 3-inch CD-RW disk is inserted, the drive pauses for several
seconds, then blinks amber twice -- pauses -- blinks twice -- etc.
That Plextor blink code is for "Auto adjustment failed" -- "Cannot
read a stamped disc or initialize a CD-R/RW disc because the drive
cannot properly configure the focus and track adjustment settings".
Plextor solutions include "If this is a recordable or rewritable disc,
try another one from a different manufacturer".

An obvious next step would be to try some Plextor-recommended 3-inch
CD-RW disks. I unwilling to buy them now. The PX-716A drive seems to
work okay for my other media, and my other drive works okay for the
Memorex 3-inch CD-RW disks, so it's not extremely important for me to
troubleshoot much more.

If you have any other suggestions, I would certainly appreciate them.

 

[Rod Speed]

When the 3-inch CD-RW disk is inserted, the drive pauses for several
seconds, then blinks amber twice -- pauses -- blinks twice -- etc.
That Plextor blink code is for "Auto adjustment failed" -- "Cannot
read a stamped disc or initialize a CD-R/RW disc because the drive
cannot properly configure the focus and track adjustment settings".
Plextor solutions include "If this is a recordable or rewritable disc,
try another one from a different manufacturer".

Its more complicated than that because you have said
that they are fine if they havent been in the Yamaha.

An obvious next step would be to try some Plextor-recommended
3-inch CD-RW disks. I unwilling to buy them now. The PX-716A
drive seems to work okay for my other media, and my other drive
works okay for the Memorex 3-inch CD-RW disks, so it's not
extremely important for me to troubleshoot much more.

Sure, but thats a separate matter to what the problem is.

 

[Russell May]

Its more complicated than that because you have said
that they are fine if they havent been in the Yamaha.


Sure, but thats a separate matter to what the problem is.

From above: "The 3-inch CD-RW disks formatted and written at work can
be read by the PX-716A and sometimes written by it, but unreliably.
Nothing works. Everything eventually results in the disk being marked
as read-only, or a data I/O error; usually followed by the disk not
being recognizable, sometimes by either drive."

I forgot to mention that once the failure caused the computer to
become unresponsive. I had to reset the computer.

The Plextor drive did format and write nearly all of the virgin disk,
but maybe I did not try enough operations with it to cause a failure.
I observed this on Friday and verified it on Monday: On two disks that
I formatted and wrote at work, I got one to three operations each
(where I wrote a file and then tried to read it) on the PX-716A before
failure. The Yamaha drive was not involved until after the failure,
when I tried to read the disk with it.

 

[Rod Speed]

From above: "The 3-inch CD-RW disks formatted and written at work
can be read by the PX-716A and sometimes written by it, but unreliably.
Nothing works. Everything eventually results in the disk being marked
as read-only, or a data I/O error; usually followed by the disk not
being recognizable, sometimes by either drive."

Irrelevant to your claim that 'Memorex 3-inch CD-RW disks
are simply incompatible with my Plextor PX-716A' when you
dont have a problem when they are only used in the Plextor.

I forgot to mention that once the failure caused the computer
to become unresponsive. I had to reset the computer.

Thats not that unusual when the drive has a problem with the media.

The Plextor drive did format and write nearly all of the virgin disk,
but maybe I did not try enough operations with it to cause a failure.
I observed this on Friday and verified it on Monday: On two disks
that I formatted and wrote at work, I got one to three operations
each (where I wrote a file and then tried to read it) on the
PX-716A before failure. The Yamaha drive was not involved
until after the failure, when I tried to read the disk with it.

Then you havent done enough testing to say anything useful.

 

[Russell May]

Irrelevant to your claim that 'Memorex 3-inch CD-RW disks
are simply incompatible with my Plextor PX-716A' when you
dont have a problem when they are only used in the Plextor.


Thats not that unusual when the drive has a problem with the media.


Then you havent done enough testing to say anything useful.

I tried this, entirely with the Plextor PX-716A.

Format a virgin Memorex 3-inch CD-RW disk with InCD, open
"My Computer", write about 65MB of text and PDF files to the
disk, open and read many of those files: No problem.

Close "My Computer", manually eject the disk, reload the disk without
removing it from the drive tray, open "My Computer": "My Computer" is
unresponsive and its drive view is blank. After a while, the drive
blinks amber twice periodically. (The drive does not recognize the
disk.)

Manually eject the disk. "My Computer" starts working again. The drive
stops blinking.

Russell May

 

[Rod Speed]

I tried this, entirely with the Plextor PX-716A.

Format a virgin Memorex 3-inch CD-RW disk with InCD, open
"My Computer", write about 65MB of text and PDF files to the
disk, open and read many of those files: No problem.

Close "My Computer", manually eject the disk, reload the disk without
removing it from the drive tray, open "My Computer": "My Computer" is
unresponsive and its drive view is blank. After a while, the drive blinks
amber twice periodically. (The drive does not recognize the disk.)

Manually eject the disk. "My Computer"
starts working again. The drive stops blinking.

Still not enough testing to say anything useful, most
obviously with not using packet writing software.

Until you try it without using packet writing software, you
cant say if those blanks are imcompatible with that burner.

 

[Russell May]

Still not enough testing to say anything useful, most
obviously with not using packet writing software.

Until you try it without using packet writing software, you
cant say if those blanks are imcompatible with that burner.

I tried this, entirely with the Plextor PX-716A.

Write the same 65MB of text and PDF files to a virgin Memorex 3-inch
CD-RW disk with Nero Burning ROM (at 4X, with verification on and
Power Rec off, close the disk at completion), open "My Computer"
without ejecting the disk, open and read many files: No problem.

Close "My Computer", manually eject the disk, reload the disk without
removing it from the drive tray, open "My Computer", open and read
more files: No problem.

So that worked. But I want to use the disks as CD-RW disks. I don't
want always to erase a disk before writing something to it. I use them
for carrying data between home, work, etc; much like many people now
use USB flash drives.

I have not yet tried reading the disk with any other drive.

I have not tried any of the Plextor or Roxio software.

I have not run the Plextor disk diagnostic routine. (Disconnect the
IDE cable, jumper the drive as Slave and Cable Select, turn on power
with the Eject button pressed, wait about nine minutes for the test to
complete and give a Go or No-Go indication.) Plextor will not tell me
whether the routine will work for 3-inch disks. I don't want a 3-inch
disk to damage the drive. I doubt whether running the diagnostic
routine with a 5.25-inch disk from a different manufacturer would be
relevant to this problem.

I have only one virgin 3-inch CD-RW disk left. I don't mind buying
five more disks but I don't want to buy a lifetime supply of fifty.
Six disks have served me well for 2-3 years. One of them wore out.

What next?

 

[Rod Speed]

I tried this, entirely with the Plextor PX-716A.

Write the same 65MB of text and PDF files to a virgin Memorex 3-inch
CD-RW disk with Nero Burning ROM (at 4X, with verification on and
Power Rec off, close the disk at completion), open "My Computer"
without ejecting the disk, open and read many files: No problem.

Close "My Computer", manually eject the disk, reload
the disk without removing it from the drive tray, open
"My Computer", open and read more files: No problem.

So the problem is clearly with packet writing, not with that media in that
drive.

So that worked. But I want to use the disks as CD-RW disks.
I don't want always to erase a disk before writing something
to it. I use them for carrying data between home, work, etc;
much like many people now use USB flash drives.

Why not use a USB flash drive instead ?

I have not yet tried reading the disk with any other drive.

I have not tried any of the Plextor or Roxio software.

I have not run the Plextor disk diagnostic routine. (Disconnect the
IDE cable, jumper the drive as Slave and Cable Select, turn on power
with the Eject button pressed, wait about nine minutes for the test to
complete and give a Go or No-Go indication.) Plextor will not tell me
whether the routine will work for 3-inch disks. I don't want a 3-inch
disk to damage the drive. I doubt whether running the diagnostic
routine with a 5.25-inch disk from a different manufacturer would
be relevant to this problem.

I have only one virgin 3-inch CD-RW disk left. I don't mind buying
five more disks but I don't want to buy a lifetime supply of fifty.
Six disks have served me well for 2-3 years. One of them wore out.

What next?

Consider whether a USB flash drive is a lot less hassle.

 

[Russell May]

So the problem is clearly with packet writing, not with that media in that
drive.


Why not use a USB flash drive instead ?






Consider whether a USB flash drive is a lot less hassle.

I would prefer to buy a 512MB USB flash drive instead of 50 new disks
for about the same price. But both are unnecessary because I can use
the 3-inch CD-RW disks very well with the Yamaha drive.

I tried a few more things:

1. I ran the Plextor diagnostic routine on a a 5.25-inch TDK 48X CD-R
disk. It passed the test. The diagnostic routine requires a CD-R disk.

2. I installed PlexTools Professional software. That made no
difference, but I was able to read the disk information: The
manufacturer is not Memorex, it is INFODISC Technology.

3. I read that I cannot install the Roxio packet writing software
separately from the entire Roxio Media Creator suite. I already have
Nero 6 Ultra Edition so I am not interested in installing Roxio.

4. I tried reinserting the disk, which was successfully written by the
Plextor drive using Nero Burning ROM, into the Plextor drive. It still
had not been in any other drive. The first time, the drive took over a
minute to recognize the drive and display its directory correctly in
"My Computer". It made several soft noises during this time, probably
from very rapid head movements. The second time, the drive recognized
the disk after a few seconds and displayed its directory correctly.
The third time, the drive made the noises again, stopped after about
90 seconds, and periodically blinked green five times. That is the
blink code for "Failure reading PMA, TOC or AIP" - "Disk was detected,
but the drive cannot read information from it." Plextor solutions
again include "If this is a recordable or rewritable disc, try another
one from a different manufacturer". I inserted this disk in the Yamaha
drive, the only time it has been in anything other than the Plextor
drive. The Yamaha drive recognized the disk immediately and displayed
its directory correctly in "My Computer".

 

[Rod Speed]

I would prefer to buy a 512MB USB flash drive
instead of 50 new disks for about the same price.

The USB flash drive is clearly much more viable
and you dont have to fart around with the drive used.

But both are unnecessary because I can use the
3-inch CD-RW disks very well with the Yamaha drive.

A USB flash drive is still a lot better on the software side alone.

I tried a few more things:

1. I ran the Plextor diagnostic routine on a a 5.25-inch TDK 48X CD-R
disk. It passed the test. The diagnostic routine requires a CD-R disk.

So doesnt prove a damned thing about how it works with CD-RWs.

2. I installed PlexTools Professional software. That made no
difference, but I was able to read the disk information: The
manufacturer is not Memorex, it is INFODISC Technology.

3. I read that I cannot install the Roxio packet writing software
separately from the entire Roxio Media Creator suite. I already
have Nero 6 Ultra Edition so I am not interested in installing Roxio.

Irrelevant to working out where the problem is.

4. I tried reinserting the disk, which was successfully written by the
Plextor drive using Nero Burning ROM, into the Plextor drive. It still
had not been in any other drive. The first time, the drive took over a
minute to recognize the drive and display its directory correctly in
"My Computer". It made several soft noises during this time, probably
from very rapid head movements. The second time, the drive recognized
the disk after a few seconds and displayed its directory correctly.
The third time, the drive made the noises again, stopped after about
90 seconds, and periodically blinked green five times. That is the
blink code for "Failure reading PMA, TOC or AIP" - "Disk was detected,
but the drive cannot read information from it." Plextor solutions
again include "If this is a recordable or rewritable disc, try another
one from a different manufacturer". I inserted this disk in the Yamaha
drive, the only time it has been in anything other than the Plextor
drive. The Yamaha drive recognized the disk immediately and displayed
its directory correctly in "My Computer".

And you wouldnt have problems like that with a USB flash drive.

 

[Alexander Grigoriev]

If you have any DirectCD-like software installed with your Plextor, try
completely uninstalling/disabing it. Also try full erase with Yamaha.