How to get a programming job?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CSharp-Jay
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CSharp-Jay

I know this is an awkward question but I am just stumped! I am
presently a College student at Devry University Online. I am working
towards my Bachelors in Computer Information Systems. I have a 4.0
GPA, Dean's List Award & President's List Award. I have already
graduated from College America with my Associates Degree in Computer
Programming, with similar achievements as those listed above and was a
College America valedictorian. Yet none of that helps me because
every programming job I run across on Dice & CareerBuilder require at
least 1 year industry experience >.< How do they expect the people
getting out of College for this to get the experience required to
apply to the job? I mean eventually...all the experienced programmers
are gonna retire and I am gonna be sitting here with no experience.
Anyways, to get back on track, anybody else had these problems or have
some suggestions?
 
CSharp-Jay said:
I know this is an awkward question but I am just stumped! I am
presently a College student at Devry University Online. I am working
towards my Bachelors in Computer Information Systems. I have a 4.0
GPA, Dean's List Award & President's List Award. I have already
graduated from College America with my Associates Degree in Computer
Programming, with similar achievements as those listed above and was a
College America valedictorian. Yet none of that helps me because
every programming job I run across on Dice & CareerBuilder require at
least 1 year industry experience >.< How do they expect the people
getting out of College for this to get the experience required to
apply to the job? [...]
Click to expand...

Not really on topic, but I suppose if I keep it brief, it's an important
enough question to discuss... :)

First, your college should include a career services department. If it
doesn't, you chose the wrong school (small consolation now, I realize,
but still...) If it does, then the first place you should be checking
is at that department. They will have a large portfolio of companies
that specifically target new graduates from your college, an organized
recruiting program that includes job fairs and screening interviews by
companies held on-campus, and alumni contacts within the companies.

Second, lots of companies hire right out of college, so if you are only
seeing job listings inappropriate for new graduates, you're looking in
the wrong place.

Third (to directly answer the specific question you asked), to some
extent you will in fact have problems competing with candidates who have
obtained some industry experience while they were in school through
internship and summer programs. It's actually possible for a new
graduate to still have a year's worth of industry experience. And of
course, there are all those programmers out there with at least a year's
experience who got laid off from some other job.

It's a lot easier for a company that has the luxury of still hiring
people to add that as a requirement.

Finally, note that we are in a global economic slowdown. There are jobs
out there, but a lot fewer than there used to be. It might be better to
target individual companies rather than looking at head-hunting web
sites, focusing your efforts on the larger ones that are more likely to
be hiring.

And of course, as has always been the case when looking for a job,
there's no substitute for being thorough and persistent. :)

Pete
 
CSharp-Jay said:
I know this is an awkward question but I am just stumped!  I am
presently a College student at Devry University Online.  I am working
towards my Bachelors in Computer Information Systems.  I have a 4.0
GPA, Dean's List Award & President's List Award.  I have already
graduated from College America with my Associates Degree in Computer
Programming, with similar achievements as those listed above and was a
College America valedictorian.  Yet none of that helps me because
every programming job I run across on Dice & CareerBuilder require at
least 1 year industry experience >.<  How do they expect the people
getting out of College for this to get the experience required to
apply to the job? [...]
Click to expand...

Not really on topic, but I suppose if I keep it brief, it's an important
enough question to discuss...  :)

First, your college should include a career services department.  If it
doesn't, you chose the wrong school (small consolation now, I realize,
but still...)  If it does, then the first place you should be checking
is at that department.  They will have a large portfolio of companies
that specifically target new graduates from your college, an organized
recruiting program that includes job fairs and screening interviews by
companies held on-campus, and alumni contacts within the companies.

Second, lots of companies hire right out of college, so if you are only
seeing job listings inappropriate for new graduates, you're looking in
the wrong place.

Third (to directly answer the specific question you asked), to some
extent you will in fact have problems competing with candidates who have
obtained some industry experience while they were in school through
internship and summer programs.  It's actually possible for a new
graduate to still have a year's worth of industry experience.  And of
course, there are all those programmers out there with at least a year's
experience who got laid off from some other job.

It's a lot easier for a company that has the luxury of still hiring
people to add that as a requirement.

Finally, note that we are in a global economic slowdown.  There are jobs
out there, but a lot fewer than there used to be.  It might be better to
target individual companies rather than looking at head-hunting web
sites, focusing your efforts on the larger ones that are more likely to
be hiring.

And of course, as has always been the case when looking for a job,
there's no substitute for being thorough and persistent.  :)

Pete
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete! I think you were right on the money here:
"Second, lots of companies hire right out of college, so if you are
only
seeing job listings inappropriate for new graduates, you're looking in
the wrong place. "

Any ideas for different sites on that one? I will hook up with my
College's internship & job placement program per the advice. I also
read an article after my original post that mentioned doing freelance
programming. But well, since I have no industry experience it all
looks kind of scary. Like you see things at eLance like "iPhone App -
Broadband Speed Tester" or "Project Cost Entry and Tracker" and your
first reaction is...."what?" I wouldn't even know where to start with
something like that!
 
CSharp-Jay said:
Thanks Pete! I think you were right on the money here:
"Second, lots of companies hire right out of college, so if you are only
seeing job listings inappropriate for new graduates, you're looking in
the wrong place. "

Any ideas for different sites on that one?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, no. I admit, I haven't really looked at the head-hunter
companies/web sites recently, and my previous impression of them wasn't
really all that favorable. A lot of promises, but not much living up to
those promises.

I think you will have better success focusing on individual companies
that are hiring. They often have their own web sites for reviewing job
listings, submitting resumes, etc. Even there, success will be limited
as compared to having some more direct contact (e.g. through your
college job placement office), but at least you're one step removed from
the huge numbers of people swamping the head-hunters.

I have found, in practically everything in life, worthwhile results
require effort to match. The easier something is, the less likely it is
to result in the outcome you want. The head-hunter web sites are easy
to get into. But you have to be really lucky for them to pay off. On
the other hand, if you put a lot of effort into making personal, very
directed applications (including custom cover letters) to a large number
companies, and especially in following up on those applications, that's
more likely to get results.

It's a lot harder, and there are still no guarantees. But your odds are
much better the more effort you put into it.

Of course, also keep in mind that there's always a bit of "job
description inflation" going on. Just because they _say_ they want one
year of industry experience minimum, that doesn't really mean they will
insist on it. The best way to guarantee you don't get a particular job
is to never apply for it. :)
I will hook up with my
College's internship & job placement program per the advice. I also
read an article after my original post that mentioned doing freelance
programming. But well, since I have no industry experience it all
looks kind of scary. Like you see things at eLance like "iPhone App -
Broadband Speed Tester" or "Project Cost Entry and Tracker" and your
first reaction is...."what?" I wouldn't even know where to start with
something like that!
Click to expand...

Well, unless you've done Mac OS X programming (Cocoa), the iPhone app
might be kind of daunting. But the speed-testing aspect shouldn't be
too hard. I mean, you send some data over the wire and time how long it
takes. No big deal.

I don't even know what the other one you mention is, but to the extent
that part of the problem may be to flesh out the specification better so
that you _do_ know where to start, that's not bad experience to start with.

Without experience, you may not be able to get the usual going rate for
work like that. But if you find someone with some patience and willing
to take some risk on someone just starting out, it could be win-win for
both you and the employer.

Actually, I'm kind of intrigued by that eLance site. Last Spring I was
looking at these various freelance/contract web sites, and what I saw
was mostly ridiculous stuff (e.g. "web-based, full-featured MMO, max
contract $1000"). And maybe there's some of that stuff on eLance too.
But the few things I browsed actually look appropriate for short-term
work, and price-wise at least in the rough ballpark (hard to tell for
sure since I didn't bother to create a user there, but the vague numbers
I can see aren't completely absurd).

No, wait...eLance has dumb stuff too. I see a ".NET Online RPG
Engine/Editor" where the employer wants to pay between $5-$10/hour for a
5-hour/week job. That's clearly not targeted at programmers living in
the US.

And looking at some of these job listings, it's pretty clear that a huge
volume of hiring through the web site is via India-based clearing-house
firms (you _know_ no individual programmer in India's pulled in $5
million over the lifetime of that web site). So maybe it's better to
focus on jobs that require some specialized criteria an Indian developer
just isn't going to meet.

Anyway, you've got to start somewhere. And if you see something on
eLance that looks remotely within your capabilities, just make sure you
underbid the competition, work something out with the employer, and get
that experience under your belt. :)

Pete
 
My advice is that you don't jump right into a coding job. Rather, jump
into a QA job. Most companies that hire software Quality Assurance/
Control people will hire internally for programming positions from QA.
 
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