How should I buy XP Pro?

[Chris]

I've been on the internet checking it out. There seems to be a thousand
variations of what's available. What I have now seems to be trouble.
How do I know how to do better next time? Microsoft has all kinds of
hoops to jump through to determine what you have and what you should get
for compatibility. If it's that difficult for MSN to figure it out what
chance to I have?

Jim L

What compatibility are you talking about? Hardware or Software?

I'm going to be brutally honest here, and maybe it's just me, but your
questions are worded very weird and tend not to make a lot of sense.
It's like you're avoiding an actual question. Be more specific or
something because I'm having a hard time understanding what you're asking.

 

[unclepeteDEL]

No offense, but this question is only for those who do NOT think it is
just fine to have XP _without_ the media an operating system normally
comes on.

If I have to I'll start from scratch.

Exactly how would a "full" copy of XP Pro SP2 best be purchased? Does
it come on _several_ CD's?

Is there any way to know it will be compatible with update/upgraded XP
systems or is each one deliberately made to force you into a new
purchase?

How much should this "full" XP Pro SP2 (SP3 by now?) actually cost? I
see all sorts of prices on eBay and they often have some characteristic
that makes them undesirable - like being merely a second license without
any CD's or being restricted to student use.

Is it even possible to make a safe purchase of XP Pro SP2 on eBay?

By that I refer to future compatibility of versions, ownership
identifications (COA's?), etc., etc., etc. (In attempting to ensure
continued usability of my present system I've been going in circles {One
place on MSN even asks if there's a wavy edge on the CD printing!},
which I suspect is corporate America at it again.)

I just want to have a solid system that will stick with me a while and
not make me jump through hoops to keep track of it. What should I have
asked, but didn't know enough to ask?

Thank you very much!

Jim L

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

No offense, but this question is only for those who do NOT think it is
just fine to have XP _without_ the media an operating system normally
comes on.

If I have to I'll start from scratch.

Exactly how would a "full" copy of XP Pro SP2 best be purchased? Does
it come on _several_ CD's?

No, it comes on a single CD.

Is there any way to know it will be compatible with update/upgraded XP
systems or is each one deliberately made to force you into a new
purchase?

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking, but if it is whether you can
use it to upgrade a previous version of Windows, yes you can if it's one of
the previous qualifying versions.

How much should this "full" XP Pro SP2 (SP3 by now?)

No, there is no SP3. SP2 is the latest, but it doesn't matter whether it
comes with SP2 or not, since SP2 can easily be added to it.

actually cost?

The price varies considerably depending on where you buy it. I'm reluctant
to state a price, since almost no matter what I say, someone will disagree
and provide a better choice. Look around on Google for yourslef.

By the way, I think that buying a Full version is not the best thing to do.
The Upgrade version is preferable. Like the Full version, it can do either
an upgrade or a clean installation (if you own a previous qualifying version
so you can insert its CD as proof of ownership when prompted to do so) and
contains exactly the same software. Since the Upgrade version is much
cheaper than the Full version, and since worst case if you don't own a
previous qualifying version, you can but a used copy of Windows 98 very
inexpensively, that's what I recommend.

I
see all sorts of prices on eBay and they often have some
characteristic that makes them undesirable - like being merely a
second license without any CD's or being restricted to student use.

Is it even possible to make a safe purchase of XP Pro SP2 on eBay?

I can't say whether it's possible, but I can say that it's very risky to try
to. I wouldn't.

By that I refer to future compatibility of versions, ownership
identifications (COA's?), etc., etc., etc. (In attempting to ensure
continued usability of my present system I've been going in circles
{One place on MSN even asks if there's a wavy edge on the CD
printing!}, which I suspect is corporate America at it again.)

I just want to have a solid system that will stick with me a while and
not make me jump through hoops to keep track of it. What should I
have asked, but didn't know enough to ask?

Buy an Upgrade copy of it at a standard retail place. Google should find you
lots of sources to compare prices on.

Also, why XP Professional, as opposed to XP Home? Are you aware that XP Home
and Professional are identical except that Professional includes a few
features (mostly related to security and networking) missing from Home? Most
home users (even those with home networks) don't need and would never use
these extra features and will see no benefits by choosing Professional over
Home.

For details go to

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/whichxp.asp>

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/choosing2.asp

Also note another point, not included in any of the above: Professional
allows ten concurrent network connections, and Home only five.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

No offense, but this question is only for those who do NOT think it is
just fine to have XP _without_ the media an operating system normally
comes on.

If I have to I'll start from scratch.

Exactly how would a "full" copy of XP Pro SP2 best be purchased?

1) Go to store/shop that sells computer software.

2) Purchase either the desired Upgrade version of WinXP, one copy for
each computer to be upgraded.

3) Return home.

4) Insert installation CD in PC's CD drive and follow the on-screen
prompts and instructions to install application and desired additional
features.

Does
it come on _several_ CD's?

No. It's on a single CD.

Is there any way to know it will be compatible with update/upgraded XP
systems or is each one deliberately made to force you into a new
purchase?

This question makes no sense. Of course WinXp is compatible with itself.

How much should this "full" XP Pro SP2 (SP3 by now?) actually cost?

Depends on the individual vendor; but it should be readily available
for somewhere between $199 and $299.

I
see all sorts of prices on eBay and they often have some characteristic
that makes them undesirable - like being merely a second license without
any CD's or being restricted to student use.

Is it even possible to make a safe purchase of XP Pro SP2 on eBay?

I wouldn't count on it. Getting a legitimate software license of any
kind from eBay, or any other on-line auction site, is something of a
crap shoot. One should be very careful buying any software on such
sites, as they make no prior effort to ensure that such sales are
legitimate. The problems stem from two completely different sources,
but have the same results: the buyer gets ripped off. A great many
people don't fully understand the terms of the license they own, and
don't understand that they may not be able to legitimately resell it, or
- worse still - there are a great many sellers who do know that they're
selling bogus licenses, but don't care. The auction sites react only
when someone files a complaint, and then all that really happens,
especially in the case of the many deliberate fraudsters, is the seller
of the pirated software returns using a different alias, to continue
selling illegitimate licenses.

By that I refer to future compatibility of versions, ownership
identifications (COA's?), etc., etc., etc. (In attempting to ensure
continued usability of my present system I've been going in circles {One
place on MSN even asks if there's a wavy edge on the CD printing!},
which I suspect is corporate America at it again.)

This paragraph makes no sense.






--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Malke]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

comments inline:

No offense, but this question is only for those who do NOT think it is
just fine to have XP _without_ the media an operating system normally
comes on.

I can't imagine who that would be, although your sentence is pretty
convoluted. It's possible that I didn't even understand what you were
saying there.

Exactly how would a "full" copy of XP Pro SP2 best be purchased? Does
it come on _several_ CD's?

A full installation of XP comes on one CD. Buy a copy from a local store or
a reputable online source such as NewEgg, Amazon, etc.

Is there any way to know it will be compatible with update/upgraded XP
systems or is each one deliberately made to force you into a new
purchase?

This question doesn't make any sense to me. As long as you want to run XP,
the installation disk you buy for your machine is good. Down the road you
might want to make a copy with the next Service Pack slipstreamed into it
for convenience, but you don't have to. You can always install the Service
Pack separately. Perhaps you are thinking of OEM versions which are legally
tied to the hardware on which you first install it. A full retail version
has no such limitation.

How much should this "full" XP Pro SP2 (SP3 by now?) actually cost? I
see all sorts of prices on eBay and they often have some characteristic
that makes them undesirable - like being merely a second license without
any CD's or being restricted to student use.

Look on a reputable site such as NewEgg, Amazon, or your local stores to
determine the price. I personally would never purchase a current version
operating system on eBay.

Is it even possible to make a safe purchase of XP Pro SP2 on eBay?

I don't think we can answer that for you. Some people are fortunate when
purchasing from eBay and some people aren't. In any case, the old maxim
still applies: if something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't.

By that I refer to future compatibility of versions, ownership
identifications (COA's?), etc., etc., etc. (In attempting to ensure
continued usability of my present system I've been going in circles {One
place on MSN even asks if there's a wavy edge on the CD printing!},
which I suspect is corporate America at it again.)

I think you're making this far more complicated than you need to. I don't
know why you think your system is going to suddenly become unusable
(barring hardware failures) at some point in the future. Install the
operating system you want and use the machine until you want something
better or until enough hardware in it fails to make fixing it uneconomical.

Malke

 

[unclepeteDEL]

Like the Full version, it can do either
an upgrade or a clean installation (if you own a previous qualifying
version so you can insert its CD as proof of ownership when prompted
to do so)

That's the problem. Thousands, maybe millions of laptops were sold with
NO CD's. As a buyer of one of those I have a system that Microsoft will
neither condemn nor verify and nothing to do about it.

Jim L via the operating system it took IBM 15 years to kill - it
squirms tho dead. --
"Feel inadequate? Destroy stuff and kill people." Confucious, Socrates, Benjamin Franklin.

 

[unclepeteDEL]

This question makes no sense. Of course WinXp is compatible with
itself.

I've been on the internet checking it out. There seems to be a thousand
variations of what's available. What I have now seems to be trouble.
How do I know how to do better next time? Microsoft has all kinds of
hoops to jump through to determine what you have and what you should get
for compatibility. If it's that difficult for MSN to figure it out what
chance to I have?

Jim L

 

[unclepeteDEL]

This paragraph makes no sense.

I suppose that's because you've never had a system that apparently has
no possible chance of being put back up if it crashes, which latter
seems to be a primary MS trademark. Of course judging from some of your
comments above it's simply a matter of throwing money at it. Not
everybody can do that.

Jim L

 

[Shenan Stanley]

<original message snipped>

Ken Blake, MVP said:

Like the Full version, it can do either
an upgrade or a clean installation (if you own a previous
qualifying version so you can insert its CD as proof of ownership
when prompted to do so)

That's the problem. Thousands, maybe millions of laptops were sold
with NO CD's. As a buyer of one of those I have a system that
Microsoft will neither condemn nor verify and nothing to do about it.

They may have been sold with 'no cds' - but that is as much the consumers
fault as the sellers in some ways.

When the consumer went to buy said laptop - they should have thought 'what
happens if I have to restore this system to it's original state?' --> but
they did not.

Now you may say, "They did not think about this because they did not know."
Great - so ignorance of something is now a defense?

You might say it was the reseller/manufacturer's place to notify the
consumer of their options.
I have no real argument here - other than they may have, but the consumer
glazed over or just missed it.
(They may not have either - that is possible.)

However - it is against their agreement as an OEM to sell it with no way to
restore it - so chances are, CD or no - there was a method of restore built
into said CD. If it was something like the hard disk drive partition - yes,
that sucks and is one of the worst restoration systems out there in my
opinion. However - know there was nothing stopping the end-consumer from
making a full image backup of the system drive (with free/pay software to
external hard disk drive/CD/DVD) as soon as they got it (and perhaps
periodically there-after.)

Will something like that happen? Will a consumer think to do such a thing
as backup their entire system? Doubtful.

So yes - I agree that the systems (it is not just laptops) sold without an
actual OS installation media (not a restore partition, not a
restore/recovery CD/DVD - but actual installation media - applications
too...) is a bad way to do business or at least gives the consumer the least
number of options. My bet is, however - that if the consumer begged the
question of actual installation media - either they would get said CD/DVDs
OR they would be smart to purchase some other brand of system that comes
with said CD/DVDs. ;-)

 

[unclepeteDEL]

What compatibility are you talking about? Hardware or Software?

I'm going to be brutally honest here, and maybe it's just me, but your
questions are worded very weird and tend not to make a lot of sense.
It's like you're avoiding an actual question. Be more specific or
something because I'm having a hard time understanding what you're
asking.

OK, I'll be brutally honest too. I'm on the new user newsgroup because
I don't know what's going on and don't know HOW to ask questions in guru
language.

I've read all kinds of thiings about how you can restore your system.
System restorations seem to come in two varieties, something that puts
you back to square one and forces you to spend what, for me, is weeks of
time installing everything I had on the system before the system or teh
drive crashed. The other option is, theoretically, something that does
NOT trash all your previous work.

I have spent hours trying to find the latter searching on words like
"recover" and "restore." I find articles about slipstreaming, which
sounds like a whole vocation in itself, and I've found link following
link on MSN indicating that if you can retrace exactly which CD you used
to install the system, what color the print on the CD is and whether it
has wavy lines or straight lines - which is all beside the point
because, as seems to be very common, laptops don't come with a CD.

I am attempting to prepare for the inevitible and that on a very limited
budget. My question is simply this. What do I do when windows comes
crashing down around my ears for ANY reason, hardware or software? If
the drive fails I need a way to install the operating system I
ostensibly purchased on a new drive, but this has been precluded by the
elimination of CD's from the laptop sales system.

I've requested updates from MSN and gotten them, so something seems
right. I've requested confirmation, varification or whatever buzz word
XP Pro users use, of whether my installation is legal. MSN refuses to
confirm that and asks for information from or about my CD which puts me
in a catch 22 because I have none (The manufacturer apparently saved
trillions of dollars by not supplying a CD). Judging from all this it
would appear that I have a d___ mess on my hands and do NOT have the
option of shelling out a lot of cash to fix it. As I said, I don't have
a list of on-the-mark buzz words to make clear what I am trying to find
clarification for myself, but every direction I look I read something
saying you had better have exactly the right CD or it will make things
worse.

I have an old TP770E with W98 on it. Before putting on a zillion
utilities MS failed to supply I reinstalled it almost daily. No one
will convince me that XP is totally foolproof and beyond failure. So
I'm trying to find out how to get ahead of the failures.

I bought a used T42 with the original XP Pro "clean installed" by an
ostensibly reputable dealer. But it appears that someone is very
serious about making laptop users get by without recourse in the case of
disasterous failures - hardware or software. I don't know what else to
tell you. I bought XP on this T42, but chances are that it will rear up
one day and wave goodbye.

Thanks

Jim L

 

[Gene K]

What you have, I am guessing, is a computer which was sold with a
recovery partition (file, etc) loaded instead of a CD or DVD. I have both a
Sony and HP which were sold that way; however, both companies [in the
initial setup] tell you to promptly make CD/DVD copies of that recovery
file. Did you do that? These copies will both boot your computer and restore
it to the initial setup (as loaded by the manufacturer). Like you
(apparently), I would prefer the old system (an OS CD instead of the
recovery file) but I was not hoodwinked by either company as to what I was
getting. By the way, that wavy edge is Microsofts hologram which is meant to
certify a legitimate original OS CD. Complain to the computer manufacturer.
Gene K

 

[unclepeteDEL]

If it was something like the hard disk drive partition - yes, that
sucks and is one of the worst restoration systems out there in my
opinion. However - know there was nothing stopping the end-consumer
from making a full image backup of the system drive (with free/pay
software to external hard disk drive/CD/DVD) as soon as they got it
(and perhaps periodically there-after.)

Most of what you say is true, but there's a flaw. I'm in the process of
securing what I need to make backups, but sooner or later the backups
are going to have the very flaws you're trying to circumvent.

And for all the stupidity of people who bought into the "no CD" policy,
those of us who aren't rich and who are trying hard to find a present
solution after buying used computers aren't getting much help from
lectures and ridicule.

Jim L

 

[unclepeteDEL]

What you have, I am guessing, is a computer which was sold with a
recovery partition (file, etc) loaded instead of a CD or DVD. I have
both a Sony and HP which were sold that way; however, both companies
[in the initial setup] tell you to promptly make CD/DVD copies of that
recovery file. Did you do that?

I bought a used IBM T42. It came with nothing as most do - I checked.

But that isn't all of it. Judging from teh articles I've read and
checkes they tell you to make, I do not have a recovery partition. I
may be wrong. But the site most people reccommended said you would find
a lot of files whose filenames end in underscores in an i386 directory
or sub-directory. I have and had no such directory.

The article suggested acquiring the normal contents of that directory
and putting them on a CD. I did that. But I have already learned that
there is at least one file missing from it - which my system restore
called for - which tells me there IS, despite comments otherwise, a
compatibility problem from one XP Pro to another.

Complain to the computer manufacturer.
Gene K

They merely say it's all Microsofts fault. I spent about 45 minutes on
a dozen 800 numbers getting that juicy bit of official information.
(People who really do answer phones have extensive training in circular
babble.)

Thanks

Jim L

 

[Malke]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

(snip ranting bits)

I bought a used IBM T42. It came with nothing as most do - I checked.

If you had said this in your first post, we could all have been done by now.
Contact Lenovo and purchase recovery disks for your machine. The
alternative is to purchase a full version - not upgrade - of XP (Home or
Pro, your choice) and be prepared to do a clean install. In the meantime,
go to Lenovo's tech support site for your T42 and download all the drivers
for the machine. Burn to cd-r. You will need them after a clean install.

You can also purchase a *generic* OEM version of XP from a reputable source
such as NewEgg, etc. and use that for your future XP installs. You will
need to activate XP over the phone in that instance.

The best solution is to purchase the recovery disks, especially for a
laptop.

Malke

 

[unclepeteDEL]

The best solution is to purchase the recovery disks, especially for a
laptop.

Thanks.

I can neither deny nor confirm. Why is "recovery" better than
"installation?" Inquiring minds, etc.

Jim L via the operating system it took IBM 15 years to kill - it
squirms tho dead. --
"Feel inadequate? Destroy stuff and kill people." Confucious, Socrates, Benjamin Franklin.

 

[Malke]

I can neither deny nor confirm. Why is "recovery" better than
"installation?" Inquiring minds, etc.

Please fix your signature - you're left out the delimiter which is two
dashes with the signature below it, like this:

--

Jim L via the operating system it took IBM 15 years to kill - it
squirms tho dead. --
"Feel inadequate? Destroy stuff and kill people." Confucious, Socrates,
Benjamin Franklin.

That way it can be correctly stripped out in replies by real newsreaders.

I didn't say that recovery disks were better than regular installation
disks. I said that was the best solution for your particular problem.
Laptops are completely proprietary and all drivers and other
laptop-specific programs (IBM Access Connect, power management, etc.)
should come from the laptop mftr. IBM - now Lenovo - does a particularly
nice job of configuring their machines with their hardware and specialized
programs.

And that's all I have to say in this thread, which seems to want to continue
forever when there really is nothing left to say except that if you're
unhappy with Microsoft, then install Linux. SUSE runs very well on
Thinkpads. I've had it on my X31 for years.

Malke

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

That's the problem. Thousands, maybe millions of laptops were sold
with
NO CD's.

No it is *not* the problem. As I said in the part of my message you snipped,
"worst case if you don't own a
previous qualifying version, you can buy a used copy of Windows 98 very
inexpensively." The combination of the Windows XP Upgrade version and a used
copy of Windows 98 is still much cheaper than the Windows XP Full version.

 

[unclepeteDEL]

Contact Lenovo and purchase recovery disks for your machine.

You can also purchase a *generic* OEM version of XP from a reputable
source

OK, great. I can get an XP Pro CD either from the manufacturer or
someone else. That clears things up greatly. I'm terribly sorry for
not wording my earlier queries more usefully. It's amazing how easy
things are if you know how to say things.

Thanks.

Jim L

 

[Shenan Stanley]

<original message snipped>

Ken Blake, MVP said:

Like the Full version, it can do either
an upgrade or a clean installation (if you own a previous
qualifying version so you can insert its CD as proof of ownership
when prompted to do so)

That's the problem. Thousands, maybe millions of laptops were sold
with NO CD's. As a buyer of one of those I have a system that
Microsoft will neither condemn nor verify and nothing to do about it.

Shenan Stanley wrote:

They may have been sold with 'no cds' - but that is as much the
consumers fault as the sellers in some ways.

When the consumer went to buy said laptop - they should have
thought 'what happens if I have to restore this system to it's
original state?' --> but they did not.

Now you may say, "They did not think about this because they did
not know." Great - so ignorance of something is now a defense?

You might say it was the reseller/manufacturer's place to notify the
consumer of their options.
I have no real argument here - other than they may have, but the
consumer glazed over or just missed it.
(They may not have either - that is possible.)

However - it is against their agreement as an OEM to sell it with
no way to restore it - so chances are, CD or no - there was a
method of restore built into said CD. If it was something like the
hard disk drive partition - yes, that sucks and is one of the worst
restoration systems out there in my opinion. However - know there
was nothing stopping the end-consumer from making a full image
backup of the system drive (with free/pay software to external hard
disk drive/CD/DVD) as soon as they got it (and perhaps periodically
there-after.)

Will something like that happen? Will a consumer think to do such
a thing as backup their entire system? Doubtful.

So yes - I agree that the systems (it is not just laptops) sold
without an actual OS installation media (not a restore partition,
not a restore/recovery CD/DVD - but actual installation media -
applications too...) is a bad way to do business or at least gives
the consumer the least number of options. My bet is, however -
that if the consumer begged the question of actual installation
media - either they would get said CD/DVDs OR they would be smart
to purchase some other brand of system that comes with said
CD/DVDs. ;-)

Most of what you say is true, but there's a flaw. I'm in the
process of securing what I need to make backups, but sooner or
later the backups are going to have the very flaws you're trying to
circumvent.

And for all the stupidity of people who bought into the "no CD"
policy, those of us who aren't rich and who are trying hard to find
a present solution after buying used computers aren't getting much
help from lectures and ridicule.

There was no 'lecture' or 'ridicule' anywhere in my response. If you read
that into it - that was your mistake. I was stating facts and mixing in my
own opinions. If I wanted to ridicule someone - I would do it and it would
be quite obvious I was doing it. Assumptions play no part in my response.

I never called anyone stupid - I stated that consumers are buying and then
using ignorance as a defense. If you are going to spend money and you don't
do your own research - why should you get something back for not getting
what you paid for when you didn't even know fully what you were getting?
(Opinion - not an actual question.) Stupidity and ignorance are actully two
different things. Ignorance can usually be overcome with knowledge -
stupidity usually cannot.

What I said was, '... there was nothing stopping the end-consumer from
making a full image backup of the system drive (with free/pay software to
external hard disk drive/CD/DVD) as soon as they got it ...' This is a
fact. And if they do it then - they would have the same thing many of these
cheesey providers give... An exact image of the machine as it was when the
consumer purchased it. That's what those restore CDs and recovery CDs/DVDs
and even most of the restore partitions do... Restore an image or perform
the same unattended installation that was done when the machine was fully
assembled and just about ready to leave the assembly line.

Yes - I added : (and perhaps periodically there-after.) <-- hopefully - you
will keep that initial image in case you decide to sell the machine. No
better way to give it to someone exactly how you got it than that.... Not
to mention, you assume the machine is as clean as it ever will be at this
time - why would you throw that away? I would be likely to throw it away
because I am relatively sure when my machine is clean and when i should make
backups (images actually) like that and when i can trust those images -
although, the keeping the original image in case I sell it sounds too good
to pass up...

I do not recommend anyone (unless they are unusually anal) using an imaging
application as a means of backing up. They can supplement with images of
their machine, but their backups should mainly be their files/folders/stuff
they created/received. All the rest can be recovered from the original
installation media and/or the last ghost image you made (like the one you
did when you bought the machine - anything else installed after that you are
likely to have actual installation media for - otherwise - how'd it get
installed?)

 

[unclepeteDEL]

There was no 'lecture' or 'ridicule' anywhere in my response.

It's in all news groups and comes from different directions but from the
same kind of people. I specified no one.

Jim L