How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]

[Joey]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

 

[Dana]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

Tad paranoid here.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.
Yep

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

Close. There are devices that are around that do exactly what you want.
Security firms and such use them to verify a room is bug free, etc.

 

[Rod Speed]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and
tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape
then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions
from the dictation machine when it was recording.

In practice that was always a lot easier to say than to do.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording
with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory?

In theory any electronic device will produce some
EM so at least in theory that can be detected.

In practice there is so much of that stuff in any
normal room anyway that its just not feasible.

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

Fraid not.

 

[kony]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

Ok, why do you care?
Don't have sensitive conversations with anyone you can't
trust, if you're going to be saying anything that shouldn't
be recorded.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

Doubtful, and not worth the bother when you could just scan
them or search them physically.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Scan them or search them.
What makes you think you should detect it?
Don't they have a right to a recording of any conversation
they're participating in?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?

Do you mean "wild hypothetical way that some future
technology or extremely expensive equipment and controlled
environment could detect", or do you mean, practically
speaking?

Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

.... and you're discriminate this from everything else, all
other HF noise, how? Get a baseline maybe, but noise is
random unless a controlled environment.

You just need to have everyone strip down nude and then do
body cavity searches, X-Rays, exploratory surgery, then
never let them leave so it doesn't really matter if anything
was recorded so long as the environment has sufficient RF
shielding.

 

[Slow Code]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

There probably is a little electro magnetic energy leaving the device, but
what frequency would you try to find it on? Other electronic things such
as computers, printers, etc in the office most likely emit far more RF
noise than the MP3 device. It would be hard to find it. Eventually, the
power would run down and the thing would stop recording. Someone would
have to come by again and pick up the recorder. So your best bet is to be
on the lookout for any suspicious recorder placement and pick up activity.

Or just buy as stereo for your office and play it real loud all the time.

Maybe belch and fart a lot too.

SC

 

[Mitch Crane]

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

That should be the least of your worries. What can you do to stop "them"?
One word: 'Faraday cage hats'.

 

[Arno Wagner]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with
an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players
are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you
would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment.
In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be
sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you
can take the devices away from people.

Arno

 

[Impmon]

Maybe belch and fart a lot too.

Or a noisy computer placed close to where the suspected mp3 recorder
would be. I have an ancient 286 whose 80MB hard drive sounds like
it's about to take off and its fan is second only to vacuum cleaner on
the noise level.

 

[atec77]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

3 AM with the right equipment it would be findable , now are you serious
or just another one of "them"?

 

[meow2222]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

not sure if you could find it with a metal detector, but probably


NT

 

[Paul Rubin]

not sure if you could find it with a metal detector, but probably

You'd still have to worry about mind reading satellites.

 

[Dan]

Picking up any signal is out of question. However, if you are a
paranoid suspecting someone is out to get you by recording, try this
one:
When she gets in your room/office, sing some line of song, like,
"Hellooo, is it me you're looking for? I can see in your eyes..." etc.
Stop kind of suddenly, look at her in the eye, and say, "If someone
recorded that song wouldn't it play back real nice?" She'll know you'd
caught her at her game and would blush or tremble or something.

 

[Ken Maltby]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

What is done is to generate a pattern of sound, only
part of which is audible, and then detect the low level
IF and RF that any sound equipment emits. Then follow
the signal detected to its source.

Luck;
Ken

 

[Joey]

Ok, why do you care?
Don't have sensitive conversations with anyone you can't
trust, if you're going to be saying anything that shouldn't
be recorded.

I say things in my conversation which i do not want to be broadcast in
the public media.

Doubtful, and not worth the bother when you could just scan
them or search them physically.

You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t
work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is
considered acceptable!

Scan them or search them.
What makes you think you should detect it?
Don't they have a right to a recording of any conversation
they're participating in?

They have the right to record themselves. I have the right not to have
my words broadcast. Unfortunately obtaining redress can be expensive.
So prevention is beter than cure.

Do you mean "wild hypothetical way that some future
technology or extremely expensive equipment and controlled
environment could detect", or do you mean, practically
speaking?

The latter. I am talking practicalitites ere.

... and you're discriminate this from everything else, all
other HF noise, how? Get a baseline maybe, but noise is
random unless a controlled environment.

If necessary I could have my PC turned off and my phone put further
away. But is there any leakage from solid MP3 recorders?

 

[Joey]

There probably is a little electro magnetic energy leaving the
device, but what frequency would you try to find it on? Other
electronic things such as computers, printers, etc in the office
most likely emit far more RF noise than the MP3 device. It would be
hard to find it. Eventually, the power would run down and the
thing would stop recording. Someone would have to come by again
and pick up the recorder. So your best bet is to be on the lookout
for any suspicious recorder placement and pick up activity.

Or just buy as stereo for your office and play it real loud all the
time.

Maybe belch and fart a lot too.

SC

The situation I describe is where the MP3 plater/recorder is carried
by the person.

 

[Joey]

3 AM with the right equipment it would be findable , now are you
serious or just another one of "them"?

Nope, I am not one of "them". This is very much for real.

What is "3 AM".

 

[Joey]

What is done is to generate a pattern of sound, only
part of which is audible, and then detect the low level
IF and RF that any sound equipment emits. Then follow
the signal detected to its source.

Luck;
Ken

Generate a pattern of sound part of which is inaudible?

IF and RF?

 

[Aly]

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

Your only real option is to hold your meetings in the middle of field, and
for everyone to be naked.

Aside from that, unless you work for MI5 or have alot of money then the
above would be far easier. If it was that important you wouldn't be asking
the question here.

 

[Rod Speed]

I say things in my conversation which i do not
want to be broadcast in the public media.

Then you have a problem for which there
is no solution given the other detail below.

You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you
that I don't work in the sort of environment where
that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable!

Then you have a problem.

They have the right to record themselves. I have the right
not to have my words broadcast. Unfortunately obtaining
redress can be expensive. So prevention is beter than cure.

Sure, but it just isnt practical.

The latter. I am talking practicalitites ere.

The short story is that it isnt practical to do what you want to do.

If necessary I could have my PC turned off and my phone put further away.

Wouldnt be enough given the minimal leakage from a
decently designed solid state MP3 recorder. In spades
with one that has been designed to be undetectable.

But is there any leakage from solid MP3 recorders?

Corse there is, but the level will be so low that you wont be able
to find it with all the other stuff around that is radiating, even if
you turn off everything in your house when a visitor shows up.

 

[kony]

If necessary I could have my PC turned off and my phone put further
away. But is there any leakage from solid MP3 recorders?

I'm sure there is a tiny bit, but it cannot be much from
such a small device operating off very low voltage and the
frequency is an unknown variable. it goes back to the idea
about a controlled environment and very expensive equipment,
that you'll probably have more background noise than what's
coming from the recorder, to find it would entail what
amounts to an active search.