How about this Question

  • Thread starter Thread starter charlie and grace
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charlie and grace

I read sometimes where the F.B.I. wil go into someone's home to look into
their computer. If this person who they are investigating is carefully
deleting things as he goes along how can the F.B.I. find things on this
persons computer? I mean arn't these people who are doing big time crimes
smart enough to erase things?
 
When you delete something and empty it from the recycle bin it's still
there. deleting it just tells the OS that you can write to this spot on the
drive again. now, the FBI and CIA will delete info and write random info
over that spot on the hard drive.
 
In
charlie and grace said:
I read sometimes where the F.B.I. wil go into someone's home to look
into their computer. If this person who they are investigating is
carefully deleting things as he goes along how can the F.B.I. find
things on this persons computer? I mean arn't these people who are
doing big time crimes smart enough to erase things?
Click to expand...


"Deleting" a file doesn't actually delete it; it just marks the
space as available to be used. There are third-party programs
that can sometimes recover deleted files if the space they
occupied has not yet been overwritten. Even if this fails, there
are professional file recovery companies which can often recover
data from files that have been overwritten, sometimes even if its
been overwritten multiple times.

For this reason, when the US government wants to get rid of
really sensitive data, it doesn't trust any deletion or
overwriting techniques. It physically melts the drive in a
furnace.
 
How would I be able to find these things say on my computer that have been
deleted. I am just interested in understanding all about the computer
 
Undelete 3.0 for Windows XP
http://www.executive.com/undelete/undelete.asp

Then visit www.iolo.com and download System Mechanic. It has
an "Incinerator" utility you can install that permanently deletes
files.

"Appearing as a secondary Recycle-bin type icon in your desktop,
Incinerator is designed to seamlessly integrate with your operating
system, extending it in all areas where secure file removal is applicable.
You can drag single or multiple files and folders to the Incinerator
icon on the desktop or any of the corresponding locations in
Windows Explorer, or select any number of items and right click
with your mouse to access a quick and convenient "Send to Incinerator"
option.

When Incinerator deletes items, it's permanent, and beyond any means
of retrieval, whether software based, mechanical, or electronic.
Incinerator uses higher than Government-strength security when
"incinerating" items, so you can be sure that what you remove is safe
from anyone's prying eyes. In order to ensure such security, Incinerator
uses a variety of time-tested and Government-accepted security methods
including renaming the item to a random value, overwriting it with random
data multiple times (in Incinerator's case, you can overwrite a total of 10
times!),
and truncating the item's length to zero (this makes it impossible to tell where
a file's data starts and stops on your system, thereby preventing manual
retrieval
via electromagnetic means)".


--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
In
charlie and grace said:
How would I be able to find these things say on my computer that have
been deleted. I am just interested in understanding all about the
computer
Click to expand...


There are several undelete programs you can download. DO google
search on "undlete."
 
Most people doing crimes are not that smart. Dumb crooks
are why the prisons are full.
They are also fun to read about.

Think of deleting a file on your computer as being similar
to tearing the table of contents out of the front of a book.
A first level wipe is like that plus tearing the index out
of the back. A format leaves all the pages, it just messes
the table of contents.



| I read sometimes where the F.B.I. wil go into someone's
home to look into
| their computer. If this person who they are investigating
is carefully
| deleting things as he goes along how can the F.B.I. find
things on this
| persons computer? I mean arn't these people who are doing
big time crimes
| smart enough to erase things?
|
|
 
Hi, Charlie and Grace.

It's hard to find analogies in our non-computer world, although Jim
Macklin's "tear out the table of contents but leave the contents" comparison
to a book comes close. The hurdle is that data is stored on our hard drives
electromagnetically. Each bit on the drive can be a one or a zero. In
fact, it MUST be a one or a zero, it can't simply be blank or nothing. So,
we can't really "erase" a bit, we can only change it from a one to a zero,
or vice versa.

On a school blackboard, we could erase and rewrite innumerable times. On a
hard drive, we can't really erase; we just rewrite, replacing the old data
as we go. The closest we can come to erasure is to write zeros (or ones, or
something meaningless) over all the bits that we want to hide.

When we tell the computer to erase a file, it simply removes the directory
entry so that the file can no longer be found by normal means, and it marks
the table of available disk space to show that the space this file uses (and
where it continues to reside) is now available to be overwritten by whatever
we decide to put there. So, the next file to be stored just might get
written over the top of the "erased" file. But, if we have plenty of
available space and/or don't store very much new data, the "erased" file may
not get overwritten for days - or years.

Disk Editor utilities are scarce these days, but they were pretty common a
decade or two ago. Peter Norton got his start with the Norton Utilities;
two of the main utilities were Unerase and DiskEdit. Symantec bought the
software and the name. They have updated some of the old and have written
new utilities to fit current computer problems (firewall, antivirus, etc.),
but it's pretty hard to find a modern equivalent of DiskEdit in your local
Best Buy.

With DiskEdit, we could look at our hard disk's sectors and clusters,
ignoring the file system when we chose. We could see the bits and bytes of
data, plus the bits and bytes of the directory, FAT, boot sector, partition
table and other disk management structures. It was easy to see and read all
of our "erased" data that had not yet been overwritten. We could see
several copies of some files (letters to our Mom?) as we had saved
successive revisions while drafting them. We could see last year's
long-forgotten memos. And we could see our supersecret data that had been
deleted long ago. Anybody with similar software could have seen the same
things, if they had access to our disks.

Disk editor programs are not popular enough for most software sellers to
bother to stock them, but they are readily available if you want them. They
are valuable diagnostic and repair tools, so any good computer repair shop
will use them and may sell them. And, of course, law enforcement agencies
have them.

Fortunately, the crooks don't usually bother to learn this much about
computers. When the cops find their "clean" hard drives, all the data is
there for the easy finding.

RC
 
Just to gibe proper credit, Patrick Norton and Leo LaPorte
used the "tear out the table of contents" line on the
SCREENSAVER TV show (www.techtv.com ) the other day.


| Hi, Charlie and Grace.
|
| It's hard to find analogies in our non-computer world,
although Jim
| Macklin's "tear out the table of contents but leave the
contents" comparison
| to a book comes close. The hurdle is that data is stored
on our hard drives
| electromagnetically. Each bit on the drive can be a one
or a zero. In
| fact, it MUST be a one or a zero, it can't simply be blank
or nothing. So,
| we can't really "erase" a bit, we can only change it from
a one to a zero,
| or vice versa.
|
| On a school blackboard, we could erase and rewrite
innumerable times. On a
| hard drive, we can't really erase; we just rewrite,
replacing the old data
| as we go. The closest we can come to erasure is to write
zeros (or ones, or
| something meaningless) over all the bits that we want to
hide.
|
| When we tell the computer to erase a file, it simply
removes the directory
| entry so that the file can no longer be found by normal
means, and it marks
| the table of available disk space to show that the space
this file uses (and
| where it continues to reside) is now available to be
overwritten by whatever
| we decide to put there. So, the next file to be stored
just might get
| written over the top of the "erased" file. But, if we
have plenty of
| available space and/or don't store very much new data, the
"erased" file may
| not get overwritten for days - or years.
|
| Disk Editor utilities are scarce these days, but they were
pretty common a
| decade or two ago. Peter Norton got his start with the
Norton Utilities;
| two of the main utilities were Unerase and DiskEdit.
Symantec bought the
| software and the name. They have updated some of the old
and have written
| new utilities to fit current computer problems (firewall,
antivirus, etc.),
| but it's pretty hard to find a modern equivalent of
DiskEdit in your local
| Best Buy.
|
| With DiskEdit, we could look at our hard disk's sectors
and clusters,
| ignoring the file system when we chose. We could see the
bits and bytes of
| data, plus the bits and bytes of the directory, FAT, boot
sector, partition
| table and other disk management structures. It was easy
to see and read all
| of our "erased" data that had not yet been overwritten.
We could see
| several copies of some files (letters to our Mom?) as we
had saved
| successive revisions while drafting them. We could see
last year's
| long-forgotten memos. And we could see our supersecret
data that had been
| deleted long ago. Anybody with similar software could
have seen the same
| things, if they had access to our disks.
|
| Disk editor programs are not popular enough for most
software sellers to
| bother to stock them, but they are readily available if
you want them. They
| are valuable diagnostic and repair tools, so any good
computer repair shop
| will use them and may sell them. And, of course, law
enforcement agencies
| have them.
|
| Fortunately, the crooks don't usually bother to learn this
much about
| computers. When the cops find their "clean" hard drives,
all the data is
| there for the easy finding.
|
| RC
| --
| R. C. White, CPA
| San Marcos, TX
| (e-mail address removed)
| Microsoft Windows MVP
|
| | > I read sometimes where the F.B.I. wil go into someone's
home to look into
| > their computer. If this person who they are
investigating is carefully
| > deleting things as he goes along how can the F.B.I. find
things on this
| > persons computer? I mean arn't these people who are
doing big time crimes
| > smart enough to erase things?
|
|
 
"give" , my fingers are too width this morning.


in message | Just to gibe proper credit, Patrick Norton and Leo LaPorte
| used the "tear out the table of contents" line on the
| SCREENSAVER TV show (www.techtv.com ) the other day.
|
|
| | | Hi, Charlie and Grace.
| |
| | It's hard to find analogies in our non-computer world,
| although Jim
| | Macklin's "tear out the table of contents but leave the
| contents" comparison
| | to a book comes close. The hurdle is that data is
stored
| on our hard drives
| | electromagnetically. Each bit on the drive can be a one
| or a zero. In
| | fact, it MUST be a one or a zero, it can't simply be
blank
| or nothing. So,
| | we can't really "erase" a bit, we can only change it
from
| a one to a zero,
| | or vice versa.
| |
| | On a school blackboard, we could erase and rewrite
| innumerable times. On a
| | hard drive, we can't really erase; we just rewrite,
| replacing the old data
| | as we go. The closest we can come to erasure is to
write
| zeros (or ones, or
| | something meaningless) over all the bits that we want to
| hide.
| |
| | When we tell the computer to erase a file, it simply
| removes the directory
| | entry so that the file can no longer be found by normal
| means, and it marks
| | the table of available disk space to show that the space
| this file uses (and
| | where it continues to reside) is now available to be
| overwritten by whatever
| | we decide to put there. So, the next file to be stored
| just might get
| | written over the top of the "erased" file. But, if we
| have plenty of
| | available space and/or don't store very much new data,
the
| "erased" file may
| | not get overwritten for days - or years.
| |
| | Disk Editor utilities are scarce these days, but they
were
| pretty common a
| | decade or two ago. Peter Norton got his start with the
| Norton Utilities;
| | two of the main utilities were Unerase and DiskEdit.
| Symantec bought the
| | software and the name. They have updated some of the
old
| and have written
| | new utilities to fit current computer problems
(firewall,
| antivirus, etc.),
| | but it's pretty hard to find a modern equivalent of
| DiskEdit in your local
| | Best Buy.
| |
| | With DiskEdit, we could look at our hard disk's sectors
| and clusters,
| | ignoring the file system when we chose. We could see
the
| bits and bytes of
| | data, plus the bits and bytes of the directory, FAT,
boot
| sector, partition
| | table and other disk management structures. It was easy
| to see and read all
| | of our "erased" data that had not yet been overwritten.
| We could see
| | several copies of some files (letters to our Mom?) as we
| had saved
| | successive revisions while drafting them. We could see
| last year's
| | long-forgotten memos. And we could see our supersecret
| data that had been
| | deleted long ago. Anybody with similar software could
| have seen the same
| | things, if they had access to our disks.
| |
| | Disk editor programs are not popular enough for most
| software sellers to
| | bother to stock them, but they are readily available if
| you want them. They
| | are valuable diagnostic and repair tools, so any good
| computer repair shop
| | will use them and may sell them. And, of course, law
| enforcement agencies
| | have them.
| |
| | Fortunately, the crooks don't usually bother to learn
this
| much about
| | computers. When the cops find their "clean" hard
drives,
| all the data is
| | there for the easy finding.
| |
| | RC
| | --
| | R. C. White, CPA
| | San Marcos, TX
| | (e-mail address removed)
| | Microsoft Windows MVP
| |
| | | | > I read sometimes where the F.B.I. wil go into
someone's
| home to look into
| | > their computer. If this person who they are
| investigating is carefully
| | > deleting things as he goes along how can the F.B.I.
find
| things on this
| | > persons computer? I mean arn't these people who are
| doing big time crimes
| | > smart enough to erase things?
| |
| |
|
|
 
thanks so much for the info. Very interesting
R. C. White said:
Hi, Charlie and Grace.

It's hard to find analogies in our non-computer world, although Jim
Macklin's "tear out the table of contents but leave the contents" comparison
to a book comes close. The hurdle is that data is stored on our hard drives
electromagnetically. Each bit on the drive can be a one or a zero. In
fact, it MUST be a one or a zero, it can't simply be blank or nothing. So,
we can't really "erase" a bit, we can only change it from a one to a zero,
or vice versa.

On a school blackboard, we could erase and rewrite innumerable times. On a
hard drive, we can't really erase; we just rewrite, replacing the old data
as we go. The closest we can come to erasure is to write zeros (or ones, or
something meaningless) over all the bits that we want to hide.

When we tell the computer to erase a file, it simply removes the directory
entry so that the file can no longer be found by normal means, and it marks
the table of available disk space to show that the space this file uses (and
where it continues to reside) is now available to be overwritten by whatever
we decide to put there. So, the next file to be stored just might get
written over the top of the "erased" file. But, if we have plenty of
available space and/or don't store very much new data, the "erased" file may
not get overwritten for days - or years.

Disk Editor utilities are scarce these days, but they were pretty common a
decade or two ago. Peter Norton got his start with the Norton Utilities;
two of the main utilities were Unerase and DiskEdit. Symantec bought the
software and the name. They have updated some of the old and have written
new utilities to fit current computer problems (firewall, antivirus, etc.),
but it's pretty hard to find a modern equivalent of DiskEdit in your local
Best Buy.

With DiskEdit, we could look at our hard disk's sectors and clusters,
ignoring the file system when we chose. We could see the bits and bytes of
data, plus the bits and bytes of the directory, FAT, boot sector, partition
table and other disk management structures. It was easy to see and read all
of our "erased" data that had not yet been overwritten. We could see
several copies of some files (letters to our Mom?) as we had saved
successive revisions while drafting them. We could see last year's
long-forgotten memos. And we could see our supersecret data that had been
deleted long ago. Anybody with similar software could have seen the same
things, if they had access to our disks.

Disk editor programs are not popular enough for most software sellers to
bother to stock them, but they are readily available if you want them. They
are valuable diagnostic and repair tools, so any good computer repair shop
will use them and may sell them. And, of course, law enforcement agencies
have them.

Fortunately, the crooks don't usually bother to learn this much about
computers. When the cops find their "clean" hard drives, all the data is
there for the easy finding.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
Click to expand...
 
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